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Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328521]

Mon, 25 November 2013 06:21

mmm

Messages:63
Registered:May 2013

My exe is a bit dated(5540), so I dom't know if it's changed since.

The discovery really bothers me. It may be seen as an exploit, or no longer needed since the merc stats are externalized and easily editable. But other than the fact that I enjoy training my mercs this way, I don't believe that it is appropriate to remove a feature that has long been a part of JA2. I don't see it is necessary to facilitate new 1.13 features either(tell me if I'm wrong).

Just for clarity, I'm using NCTH. Don't know if it is NCTH only or what.

What bothers me more is that I heard people on Chinese tbsgame forum saying cancelling strategic movement no longer gives health and strength either. Will someone explain to me the rationale behind the decisions, or better yet, revert these changes? They affect the gameplay in no way unless used deliberately. I don't see anything necessitate their removal, even in 1.13.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2013 06:24] by Moderator

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Corporal

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328525]

Mon, 25 November 2013 10:28

silversurfer

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

Throwing knifes at windows is an act of vandalism and should be punished...

Exploits are removed now and then. This is just because it wasn't intended to work this way.

Canceling strategic move orders doesn't grant health and strength anymore. This is true because what did the mercs do? Nothing. And what do they get now for doing nothing? Nothing. Very Happy

Health and strength can be trained easily by working out with sandbags for example which makes much more sense.

Another exploit that was removed recently is the "How to kill civilians by throwing items at them for -1 health without starting hostilities" bug.

Do we want to put any of these exploits (bugs) back in? No! Razz

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2013 10:30] by Moderator

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Lieutenant

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328541]

Mon, 25 November 2013 17:59

mmm

Messages:63
Registered:May 2013

I thought 1.13 was about adding features, not removing the ones that has been there for more than a decade, and what was great about 1.13 was that options are always kept as much open as possible.

The way I see it is that you helped me decide what to use base on your preference. Please don't.

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Corporal

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328543]

Mon, 25 November 2013 18:09

DepressivesBrot

Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009

This is not an option, it's a bug.

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Captain

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328547]

Mon, 25 November 2013 19:00

silversurfer

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

mmm

I thought 1.13 was about adding features, not removing the ones that has been there for more than a decade, and what was great about 1.13 was that options are always kept as much open as possible.

Bugs/exploits are not features. Don't confuse them.
The devs will fix bugs/exploits as they like and I doubt that they will ask for permission from the few players that like to abuse these bugs/exploits.

I was surprised as well to find the strategic map trick not working anymore but hey, it's not like there are no alternatives.

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Lieutenant

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328569]

Tue, 26 November 2013 05:06

mmm

Messages:63
Registered:May 2013

They've been there for so long, however you'd like to characterize them, exploit or what. There must be more than just "a few" players using them over the years(that includes you maybe). I don't see them getting in the way of normal gameplay, should one choose to not use them. So talk about bugs, there are certainly many more with much more adverse effects. They should really be treated as built-in cheats like GABBI or easter egg of some sort.

Well, guess I could always GABBI out an enemy to shoot at if no one feels like to revert the changes.

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Corporal

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328572]

Tue, 26 November 2013 10:20

Kriplo

Messages:256
Registered:February 2008
Location: Zagreb - Croatia

silversurfer

Bugs/exploits are not features. Don't confuse them.
The devs will fix bugs/exploits as they like and I doubt that they will ask for permission from the few players that like to abuse these bugs/exploits.

Agreed all exploits should be penalize, who ever not like have v1.12 Wink

Does throwing knives on crows is also penalized dexterity and marksmanship ? I always use this exploit Very Happy

That one should be penalize too, also gaining marksmanship for hiting locks from 1 tile.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328579]

Tue, 26 November 2013 15:37

Sam Hotte

Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany

Kriplo

Agreed all exploits should be penalize, who ever not like have v1.12
Does throwing knives on crows is also penalized dexterity and marksmanship ? I always use this exploit
That one should be penalize too, also gaining marksmanship for hiting locks from 1 tile.

That's misleading comparison as these 2 are just utilizing the game mechanics in normal, intended way: spending time and breath on target practicing, hiting a target with a knife or gun (spending ammo) is learning by doing and that's the way game works.
The travel exploit is the exact opposite: your merc is neither spending time nor breath, doing nothing, learning nothing and still gets reward as if he had walked several days overloaded just because of an obviously faulty order of calculations somewhere in the code.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328580]

Tue, 26 November 2013 15:50

DepressivesBrot

Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009

Yupp. Besides why would go to the effort of exploiting your way to super strong mercs if you can just edit them before the game is beyond me. My only explanation: deep down you know it is wrong and you want to punish yourself Razz

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Captain

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328582]

Tue, 26 November 2013 16:54

Kriplo

Messages:256
Registered:February 2008
Location: Zagreb - Croatia

Well, didn't mean to turn off completely but to reduce gain as you merc pretty fast gain dex and mrk by doing this, for locks gain should be dependable of range and always far less then in real combat.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328583]

Tue, 26 November 2013 17:04

Sam Hotte

Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany

Haven't checked back in the HDIWs (if they still apply code wise) but IIRC chances for improvement from locks are reduced.

(If not: Hitting a small lock from 10m afar is more difficult than hitting a comparatively huge human in same situation. Razz

)

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Sergeant Major

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328592]

Tue, 26 November 2013 22:09

Kriplo

Messages:256
Registered:February 2008
Location: Zagreb - Croatia

Hm, fine, can't argue with that Razz

Anyway, in last two months of debugging game get feeling that our mercs rise stats quicker than was in v1.12 and most of the time play at expert level.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328595]

Wed, 27 November 2013 00:17

Sam Hotte

Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany

There used to be options in ini to configure this in detail ... Wink

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Sergeant Major

Re: Throwing knife through window no longer improve marksmanship and dex?[message #328718]

Sat, 30 November 2013 12:22

Parkan

Messages:439
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

Even rise all requirements for stat rising to 100,the stats still rise quick.Is it intentional or not?

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Master Sergeant

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