Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab  » Helicopter repair and refuel
Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329091] Thu, 19 December 2013 20:20 Go to next message
anv

 
Messages:232
Registered:March 2013
Helicopter Repair

Buggler informed me that there exist Waldo Zimmer's lines and NPC script entries suggesting that he was supposed to be able to repair helicopter, but it wasn't handled in code.
Now, if WALDO_CAN_REPAIR_HELICOPTER is TRUE, helicopter is damaged and safely landed in the same sector Waldo is in (usually Drassen airport), you can speak to him directly, and he'll offer to conduct necessary repairs.
Repair takes time - while it's in progress you can't use helicopter. Time depends on amount of damage, but may vary randomly by few hours.
Cost of repair is dependent on damage too, but if WALDO_SUBSEQUENT_REPAIRS_COST_INCREASE is TRUE, it also increases with subsequent repairs - to simulate available parts scarcity and prevent exploiting.

Also, if WALDO_OFFERS_REPAIR_IN_STRATEGIC is TRUE, and you've met him before, Waldo will offer repair himself as soon as damaged heli lands in his sector. If Silent Skyrider option is set in options screen, only message box prompt will be shown (Silent Waldo?).
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3117/zuzj.png
More specific settings kept in Helicopter_Settings.INI (costs, time, etc.).

Damaged Skyrider won't fly

Normally, after taking the second hit Skyrider automatically returns to base - but then immediately after touching ground he can fly again like nothing happened. Now, if SERIOUSLY_DAMAGED_SKYRIDER_WONT_FLY is TRUE, he will refuse to fly until you perform repairs.

Alternative Helicopter Fuel System

There exist commented sections in code suggesting that helicopter's range was supposed to be limited.
Now, if ALTERNATIVE_HELICOPTER_FUEL_SYSTEM is TRUE:
- Helicopter can fly up to 25 sectors (by default). It does include way back! Now taking Estoni is important, or you won't reach Meduna and Grumm.
- Every sector helicopter flies through uses up 1 fuel unit.
- Hovering uses up fuel just like flying (you can fly for hours between sectors, but 10 minutes in the same place and you have to come back? I call bullshit, Bullock.). By default hovering for 10 minutes equals fuel needed for flying through 1 sector. Time of hovering is additive, meaning you'll still use 1 fuel unit if you hover for 5 minutes in one sector and for 5 in another.
- Hovering costs money - less than travel though - HELICOPTER_HOVER_COST_ON_GREEN_TILE, HELICOPTER_HOVER_COST_ON_RED_TILE.
- Helicopter refuels automatically when landed at base, for free (let's say price is included in Skyrider bill).
- Refuel isn't instant. Time of refuel scales with amount of fuel used up. If tank is completely empty, you'll need 30 minutes to fully refill. If you're in hurry, you can fly away before it's finished, but you'll have proportionally less fuel (and less range).
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2349/mq75.png
Specific values customizable in Helicopter_Settings.INI.

Pay Skyrider in base only

If HELICOPTER_PAY_SKYRIDER_IN_BASE is TRUE, Skyrider will charge you for entire journey only after safe return to base. I mean - he says "I'll be looking to get paid when the trip's over", right?

Skyrider charges for return to base

If HELICOPTER_RETURN_TO_BASE_IS_NOT_FREE is TRUE, automatic return to base costs money too. Normally, if you order Skyrider to return by selecting airport as destination point he charges you, but if he gets seriously hit or out of fuel and returns on his own, he doesn't - so players usually exploit it by ordering him to hover until he runs out. Not anymore.

Passengers getting hit

Helicopter isn't exactly armored transporter, so when it gets hit and HELICOPTER_PASSENGERS_CAN_GET_HIT is TRUE, there's a chance puny meatbags inside get hurt too. By default only few scratches will happen, but it might be enough to require medical attention for passenger and throw player's plans into turmoil.

Message box before kicking people out

Normally when running out of fuel, Skyrider automatically kicks passengers out. If HELICOPTER_ASK_BEFORE_KICKING_PASSENGERS_OUT is TRUE, you'll get message box with option to leave passengers in. It doesn't extend to kicking people out when you owe him money though. (Idea sto... ehrm, borrowed from Night Ops).

Externalised vanilla values

HELICOPTER_TIME_DELAY_FOR_HOVER_WAIT, HELICOPTER_TIME_DELAY_FOR_HOVER_WAIT_TOO_LONG, HELICOPTER_SAM_SITE_ACCURACY -> Helicopter_Settings.INI. Cause why not.

Backwards compatibility

As far as I know.

Credits

Buggler - ideas, balancing, testing, feedback

Download

Files + diff


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329092] Thu, 19 December 2013 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3407
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Very nice one! :ok:

Though I fear my campaigns will take significantly longer now^^

Edit: Will commit later. Currently my builds are full of stuff I need to commit prior.

You could also announce this on the Portal Page....

Edit 2: Committed in r6695 and GameDir r1897.

[Updated on: Fri, 20 December 2013 00:23] by Moderator



Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329109] Fri, 20 December 2013 03:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anv

 
Messages:232
Registered:March 2013
Thanks for writing announcement, Flugente :thumbsup:


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329123] Fri, 20 December 2013 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
There should be an option to tell Skyrider to land in order to conserve fuel. However enemies would close in on his sector and if they move in the helicopter gets damaged or something. just an idea.
Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329135] Sat, 21 December 2013 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Only one question pops into my mind now: can we have a bigger strategic map? A-P / 1-16. Since you can refuel your heli, it would be very nice to have a strategic map like A-AZ / 1-50 Smile)
Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329138] Sat, 21 December 2013 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3407
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Shouldn't be to hard. Once you've finished the 2244 missing maps, send them to me, I'll see what I can do.


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329142] Sat, 21 December 2013 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Flug there are plenty of maps in this community... Just imagine how it would be to merge Ja2 with Ja2 UB and have both strategic maps in the same game, It's that bad to think that Arulco has neighbors? Imagine what this can do to merchants, factions and so on.
Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329144] Sat, 21 December 2013 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3805
Registered:July 2009
Great, go ahead and assemble all those maps that 'are around' so they work with one master tileset then.


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329147] Sat, 21 December 2013 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3407
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
We aren't arguing that it is a bad idea - it would be very awesome to have a bigger map, no question there. We are arguing that creating all those maps would take an OBSCENE amount of effort. Ask smeagol or Zombiehunter how long it takes them to finish one map, and then do the math.

And no, there is no method to generate random maps for landscape. Such a method does not exist, an would thus have to be written from scratch. As the editor follows no known conventions of reasoning, logic, this would require monumental effort.

And as far as existing maps go - maps are only compatible if they share the same tilesets. Even WF maps aren't compatible with vanilla maps. Mix those, an you'll get trees replaced with wash dryers.. if you're lucky.


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329153] Sat, 21 December 2013 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anv

 
Messages:232
Registered:March 2013
@Taro: That was the original design, to let Skyrider land in any sector with appropriate terrain and display helicopter graphics (basing on externalised helicopter sites feature) on ground, but it's put on hold till it's possible to use helicopter graphics even on maps with tilesets not containing it - similar problem as with fortifications. I was especially thinking of actual "get to the choppah while it's under fire" EVACS instead of boring "in strategic change assignment to helicopter" EVACS.

@Maalstroom: There no reason why some full-conversion mod that already overwrites default maps with its own couldn't change strategic map dimensions, and it shouldn't even be particularly hard. Problem with collecting maps floating around and extending already existing strategic map with them, even assuming tilesets compatibility, is that they're not necessarily work fine together. Sector maps have to reflect strategic map and follow common logical guidelines - cities where the cities are, roads, forests, mountains, jungle here, tundra there, otherwise it makes no sense. I'd rather see well-crafted big maps in place of vanilla ones.


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329262] Wed, 25 December 2013 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3805
Registered:July 2009
Please ensure proper compilation for the UB define, I just noticed that my script started complaining about some line involving 'hourly helo repair'.
Thank you.


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329268] Thu, 26 December 2013 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anv

 
Messages:232
Registered:March 2013
Breaking UB starts becoming my tradition.
Toggle Spoiler



Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #329345] Sat, 28 December 2013 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
thanks, the ub fix is committed


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #330291] Mon, 03 February 2014 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martjs

 
Messages:11
Registered:August 2007
Location: Portugal
Hi Everybody:

Some time ago I've asked where I could find the file that managed the Sam effective range.
Flugente gave me the answer.
But the reason for this was to create a "jammer" item for the helicopter.
Since I'm unable to program such a thing, I profit from this new idea and ask if someone has already thought about this and if something was created?

I have imagined something like this:

Computer + cable + Satellite Dish = Jammer
Rubber band + copper wire = cable
Fumble pack + rod + platter = Satellite Dish

The jammer would block sam capacity to target the helicopter in the cell (location) where it would be.

This could mean programming the shoot effectiveness of the Sam site.

Is it possible to do it?
Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #330296] Mon, 03 February 2014 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3407
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The first part can easily be done via Item Merges. The second part does not require much coding.

While this normally fits the stuff I like, I personally don't like this one. Simply because this item would effectively negate one of the few strategic elements ingame: the need to secure airspace and keep it. Batteries usage/cost would be a poor way to balance this imho.


Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #330297] Mon, 03 February 2014 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2385
Registered:May 2009
No Deus Ex stealth copters in this game please. Wink

Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #330303] Tue, 04 February 2014 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:575
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
Flugente
Simply because this item would effectively negate one of the few strategic elements ingame: the need to secure airspace and keep it. Batteries usage/cost would be a poor way to balance this imho.
What about a chance for the jammer to fail? Let's assume the jammer has a 50% chance of working per tile moved. This means that you have a 1/2 chance of making it one tile into the red zone without problem, 1/4 chance to make it 2 deep (and 1/8 to make it out unscathed), and the odds of surviving unscathed decrease very rapidly after that.
Skyranger would still charge you full danger price since he doesn't trust your jammers, though he could be persuaded to use a better one (found in Alma? Orta?).

Just throwing out ideas, not sure if they fit the theme though.
Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #330305] Tue, 04 February 2014 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martjs

 
Messages:11
Registered:August 2007
Location: Portugal
Ok, Flugente and Silversurfer :

I understand your concern about a "jammer".

It may create an unbalance on the game, since, it will able you (theoretically speaking) to fly anywhere. But, a computer is something very hard to get at the beginning of the game. I think you just can buy it at Balime. Much like the x-ray detector. Balime is a very hard city to maintain. it is constantly menaced by the queen troops and mostly by Elite one's.
Another thing is that Skyrider still makes you pay the entering on a danger zone.
Thirdly, the idea of JMich sounds very reasonable, although I think the proportions somewhat hard.

The last time I played I attacked Orta by helicopter, in a paratrooper manner. The helicopter was hit only just before getting to Orta. Meaning that sometimes it would be logical to protect the Helicopter.

Also, we could "give the helicotper "life" like the robot. It would be possible to repair it by highly skilled technicians, like Barry, but just on a airport.
What we might gain form this is the ability to do some critical strike opp's.
It is a bit like the Ambushes that the Queen teams are able to do us in some areas.

If the game turns unattractive, I don't know.

I don't feel it will make it easier.
Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #330306] Tue, 04 February 2014 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martjs

 
Messages:11
Registered:August 2007
Location: Portugal
Just brainstorming:

If the helicopter gets completely destroyed, we've just loose it. We might, in this case buy (very costly) the plane on Drassen, but it would be necessary to jump form it with a parachute (also costly). This would mean light equipment and very accurate strikes.
Another thing is to rebuild (very costly) the helicopter destroyed in Cambria Hospital. It would be a manoeuvrability gain. But, there wouldn't be a second pilot, So we could train one with Skyrider. Once more it must be someone "intelligent" enough and skilled.
Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #330307] Tue, 04 February 2014 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martjs

 
Messages:11
Registered:August 2007
Location: Portugal
Flugente:

I'm not able to program. I might do some easy thing but the hard stuff, I'm unable. If I try to develop these thing would you help me or correct my files?
Re: Helicopter repair and refuel[message #330308] Tue, 04 February 2014 16:17 Go to previous message
Gorro der GrĂ¼ne

 
Messages:1540
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
you also need a new pilot

by the way I know at least 2 players who blow it up.
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