Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Spotter
New feature: Spotter[message #329093] Thu, 19 December 2013 23:24 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Use mercs as spotters for your snipers

Snipers often operate in a team with a dedicated spotter, who helps them making out targets, setting up an optimal firing position, not get ambushed, and making for a tense bromance under fire.

There was no real reason to do so in JA2 so far - and I intend to change that.

Every merc now has access to a new skill - Spotter - in the Skill Menu under Various called with $. When activated, the merc will then become a spotter. A spotter basically increases accuracy for snipers firing on a location he observes, but does not get that bonus himself.
  • http://i39.tinypic.com/2zq4ghx.jpg Becoming a spotter takes a few turns. Only after SPOTTER_PREPARATIONTURNS - 1 turns he will be ready to as a spotter. Observing takes time, you know? This state - spotting, but not yet granting a bonus - is indicated by a red eye symbol on his portrait.
  • http://i44.tinypic.com/hwyfqh.jpg Once enough turns have passed, he becomes a spotter, indicated by the normal eye on the merc portrait.
  • In order to become a spotter, you need to equip special items in your hands. These items need to have the new -tag. The higher the value, the more effective.
  • A friendly sniper gets a bonus to cth (both OCTH and NCTH) if his target is a tile or person that the spotter can see. The maximum bonus is SPOTTER_MAX_CTHBOOST. If multiple spotters are present, the biggest bonus counts.
  • However, it only applies if sniper and spotter are not more than SPOTTER_RANGE tiles away from each other. It is also required that the target be at least 2 * SPOTTER_RANGE tiles away from the spotter. This is supposed to be for long-range sniping, after all.
  • 'Sniper' is any merc using a sniper rifle in this context. Sniper trait is not required.
  • Spotting effectivity depends on:
    • Effectivity of spotting items in hands. Object status affects value. Attachments are also taken into account (yes, even scope modes on guns).
    • Experience level
    • Marksmanship
    • Leadership
    • Fatigue
    • Wether spotter is wounded
    • The new 'spotter' background property
    • sociable or loner character, for both spotter and sniper
    • The relationship between mercs is very important (basic opinion, buddies, sexism, racism etc.). Raider spotting for Raven gives a ~100% bonus... Buzz is useless spotting for Lynx :blackcat:
    • time spent spotting can increase bonus significantly
  • There is, however, a huge drawback to this: a spotter stops spotting as soon as he spends any APs. A spotter has to exactly analyse the situation, taking into account wind, temperature, the bullet's trajectory etc... performing an action would distract from that.
As a merc is effectively out of combat as long as he is a spotter, you have to carefully weigh wether the increased cth on your sniper is worth taking another combat merc out of combat. Effective spotters are those with high experience an marksmanship - which will be mercs you'd otherwise use in combat.

The default spotter items are binoculars. It is reasonable to first look through them before ordering the spotting - you will want to see as far away as possible, as spotting does not work in your immediate surrounding.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2i0rx45.jpg
Shadow is ordered to become a spotter. Everyone inside the green circle around him (this includes Scope) will benefit from his spotting if firing on a location/person that Shadow sees outside (and including) the orange circle.

http://i44.tinypic.com/a3gg7d.jpg
Scope's cth without Shadow spotting is 42%...

http://i41.tinypic.com/spzm7c.jpg
... her cth with him spotting is 51%

This feature does not break savegame compatibility. However, a GameDir >= r1896 is required, as new face icons were added.

This has been added to the trunk in r6694 and GameDir r1896.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329095] Thu, 19 December 2013 23:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Thumbs up! Awesome addition, had been waiting for this for quite some time.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329100] Fri, 20 December 2013 02:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
Geez Flugente you maniac Wink
Nice work, I am amazed =)
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329113] Fri, 20 December 2013 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Great idea!
I do not get why leadership needed for better spotting?
I do not think that I will use merc with high marksmanship for spotting purposes.
I think it is better Idea to replace leadership/marksmanship with Wisdom for spotter(hello fallout!)

Is it possible to give Scout, Ranger, Hunter bonus on spotting?
(I know that Scout already has bonus with scopes, binoculars, but will it increase CTH?)
Shadow is a loner, does it mean that he will spot enemy worse than Sydney, because Sydney is in good relationship with Scope?

[Updated on: Fri, 20 December 2013 10:58] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329115] Fri, 20 December 2013 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:185
Registered:April 2012
I propose Ira to make a spotter. I remember she was speaking comething about having low markmanship and that Miguel used her mostly for scouting. So I think a role of spotter fits in the story very well.
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329116] Fri, 20 December 2013 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3801
Registered:July 2009
Ira was a lookout. Every muppet with 20/20 eyesight and a bit of discipline to keep him from falling asleep, getting shitfaced or reading porn magazines can do that.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329117] Fri, 20 December 2013 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@E1vS: A spotter helps determining conditions for placing the perfect shot. Thus knowing a great deal about shooting is rather helpful - as well as is communicating that to the sniper, which is partly covered by leadership.

I don't see why the Ranger should get a bonus here. Scouting does not get a bonus, but benefits indirectly nevertheless. The range-condition means that the more terrain you see, the more terrain gets a cth bonus. That's a big enough bonus.

Being a loner does no yet factor in (good idea btw!). Sidney will be a very good spotter for Scope, because they get along so well.

@cnagorneac: This isn't a trait. You can order anyone to be a spotter.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329120] Fri, 20 December 2013 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As of r6698, sociable and loner character now affects spotting effectivity. For those interested, here's the cth bonus calculation (from SoldierControl.cpp):
// bonus for snipers firing at this location (we get this if there are spotters)
UINT16	GridNoSpotterCTHBonus( SOLDIERTYPE* pSniper, INT32 sGridNo, UINT bTeam)
{
	INT16 bestvalue = 0;

	SOLDIERTYPE* pSoldier = NULL;
	INT32 cnt = gTacticalStatus.Team[ bTeam ].bFirstID;
	INT32 lastid = gTacticalStatus.Team[ bTeam ].bLastID;
	for ( pSoldier = MercPtrs[ cnt ]; cnt < lastid; ++cnt, ++pSoldier)
	{
		if ( pSoldier != pSniper && pSoldier->sSectorX == gWorldSectorX && pSoldier->sSectorY == gWorldSectorY && pSoldier->bSectorZ == gbWorldSectorZ 
			&& pSoldier->IsSpotting() 
			&& PythSpacesAway(pSoldier->sGridNo, pSniper->sGridNo) <= gGameExternalOptions.usSpotterRange
			&& PythSpacesAway(pSoldier->sGridNo, sGridNo) >= 2 * gGameExternalOptions.usSpotterRange )
		{
			BOOLEAN targetseen = FALSE;

			UINT usID = WhoIsThere2( sGridNo, pSniper->bTargetLevel );

			// is someone is at the sGridNo, check wether the spotter can see any part of him check wether head can be seen)
			if ( usID != NOBODY && SoldierToSoldierLineOfSightTest( pSoldier, MercPtrs[usID], 0, NO_DISTANCE_LIMIT, AIM_SHOT_HEAD ) > 0 )
				targetseen = TRUE;
			// otherwise check wether we can see the ground floor
			else if ( SoldierToVirtualSoldierLineOfSightTest( pSoldier, sGridNo, pSniper->pathing.bLevel, ANIM_PRONE, FALSE, NO_DISTANCE_LIMIT ) > 0 )
				targetseen = TRUE;

			if ( targetseen )
			{
				// spotter items are used to determine effectiveness. cap each hand item to a maximum of 100 pts (to keep players from using guns with tons of attachments that have been declared 'spotter items')
				UINT16 itembonus = 0;
				if ( pSoldier->inv[HANDPOS].exists() )
					itembonus += min(100, GetObjectModifier( pSoldier, &(pSoldier->inv[ HANDPOS ]), gAnimControl[ pSoldier->usAnimState ].ubEndHeight, ITEMMODIFIER_SPOTTER ) );
				
				if ( pSoldier->inv[SECONDHANDPOS].exists() )
					itembonus += min(100, GetObjectModifier( pSoldier, &(pSoldier->inv[ SECONDHANDPOS ]), gAnimControl[ pSoldier->usAnimState ].ubEndHeight, ITEMMODIFIER_SPOTTER ) );

				// base spotter effectivity depends on 40% items, 30% experience, 20% marksmanship an 10% leadership 
				// the nominal value is between 0 and 1000 (though the actual value can be raised higher, due to effective stat and level boni)
				UINT32 value = 2 * itembonus + 30 * EffectiveExpLevel( pSoldier ) + 2 * EffectiveMarksmanship( pSoldier) + EffectiveLeadership( pSoldier);
				
				// lowered effectivity if we're fatigued
				ReducePointsForFatigue( pSoldier, &value );

				// lowered effectivity if we're wounded
				value = (value * pSoldier->stats.bLife / pSoldier->stats.bLifeMax);
				
				// effectivity of spotter and sniper working together in percent
				UINT16 effectivity = 100;

				// sociable mercs get a bonus, loners get a malus
				if ( OKToCheckOpinion(pSoldier->ubProfile) )
				{
					MERCPROFILESTRUCT*	pProfile = &(gMercProfiles[ pSoldier->ubProfile ]);

					switch( pProfile->bCharacterTrait )
					{
					case CHAR_TRAIT_SOCIABLE:
						effectivity += 10;
						break;

					case CHAR_TRAIT_LONER:
						effectivity -= 10;
						break;
					}
				}

				if ( OKToCheckOpinion(pSniper->ubProfile) )
				{
					MERCPROFILESTRUCT*	pProfile_Sniper = &(gMercProfiles[ pSniper->ubProfile ]);

					switch( pProfile_Sniper->bCharacterTrait )
					{
					case CHAR_TRAIT_SOCIABLE:
						effectivity += 10;
						break;

					case CHAR_TRAIT_LONER:
						effectivity -= 10;
						break;
					}
				}

				// relation between sniper and spotter is important - they need to trust each other (-50 to 50)
				INT8 relation = min( 2*BUDDY_OPINION, max( 2*HATED_OPINION, SoldierRelation(pSoldier, pSniper) + SoldierRelation(pSniper, pSoldier) ) );

				// relation counts twice. Also account for special background. Effectivity cannot be lower than 0%!
				effectivity = max(0, effectivity + 2 * relation + pSoldier->GetBackgroundValue(BG_PERC_SPOTTER) );
				
				// a good relation boosts value tremendously - a bad relation makes spotting useless
				// the spotter background also alters effectiveness
				// -> value between 0 and 2000
				value = (value * effectivity ) / 100;

				// longer spotting gives a linear bonus - up to 100% -> value between 0 and 4600
				value = (value * min(pSoldier->usSkillCounter[SOLDIER_COUNTER_SPOTTER], 2 * gGameExternalOptions.usSpotterPreparationTurns)) / gGameExternalOptions.usSpotterPreparationTurns;
				
				// reasonable values: 0 to gGameExternalOptions.usSpotterMaxCTHBoost
				value = (value * gGameExternalOptions.usSpotterMaxCTHBoost) / 4000;
								
				if ( value > bestvalue )
					bestvalue = value;
			}
		}
	}

	// limit value
	bestvalue = min( gGameExternalOptions.usSpotterMaxCTHBoost, max(0, bestvalue ) );

	return bestvalue;
}



Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329122] Fri, 20 December 2013 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
Could add an option so Mercs with Marksman/Sniper trait get a bonus for working with spotter. Also Mercs with scouting trait give even bigger bonus.

[Updated on: Fri, 20 December 2013 23:52] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329124] Sat, 21 December 2013 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Snipers are already good at sniping because, well, they are snipers.
Scouts already benefit because of their increased sight range with binoculars, which are the required items mostly used as spotting items.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329125] Sat, 21 December 2013 00:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente could you please explain how the relationship below will affect on cth?

for instance Grunty(spotter) likes Buns(sniper), however Buns neutral to Grunty, so how this feature will work on them?

[Updated on: Sat, 21 December 2013 00:54] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329126] Sat, 21 December 2013 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
We add Grunty's opinon on Buns (-1) + Buns opinion on Grunty (-5), multiply by 2 and then alter effectivity by it (100% - 12% = 88%). Thus cth received by spotting is lower than it would be for totally bland mercs. Sexism/racism don't factor in, because Grunty is non-prejudiced and too average for Buns to care.

While this calculation is correct, I am very surprised that both have a negative opinion of each other. But this data seems pretty vanilla to me, no changes since the file is under svn... dafuq?

This really irks me. Either merc opinions were always somewhat borked, or they've been messed with a long time ago.


Edit: Wait a minute. Ignore the last part. Damn, this game is ingenious :professor:

What I said above is true at the beginning of the game. Grunty learns to like Buns in an ongoing campaign. Which increases his opinion up to 25. Then, the modifier becomes 25 + -5 = 20, which then becomes a 2*20% = 40% bonus on cth.

So if the base cth gain were 10%, she'll get 8% in the beginning, but 14% later on.

[Updated on: Sat, 21 December 2013 01:22] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329127] Sat, 21 December 2013 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
We add Grunty's opinon on Buns (-1) + Buns opinion on Grunty (-5), multiply by 2 and then alter effectivity by it (100% - 12% = 88%). Thus cth received by spotting is lower than it would be for totally bland mercs. Sexism/racism don't factor in, because Grunty is non-prejudiced and too average for Buns to care.

While this calculation is correct, I am very surprised that both have a negative opinion of each other. But this data seems pretty vanilla to me, no changes since the file is under svn... dafuq?

This really irks me. Either merc opinions were always somewhat borked, or they've been messed with a long time ago.


Edit: Wait a minute. Ignore the last part. Damn, this game is ingenious :professor:

What I said above is true at the beginning of the game. Grunty learns to like Buns in an ongoing campaign. Which increases his opinion up to 25. Then, the modifier becomes 25 + -5 = 20, which then becomes a 2*20% = 40% bonus on cth.

So if the base cth gain were 10%, she'll get 8% in the beginning, but 14% later on.



thanks for explanation, i did not get last part though =(
40% bonus after learned to like or 24?
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329128] Sat, 21 December 2013 02:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
It's a 40% bonus on the extra cth received by spotting compared to 2 generic mercs that have no opinion whatsoever on each other.

[Updated on: Sat, 21 December 2013 02:27] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329129] Sat, 21 December 2013 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
It's a 40% bonus on the extra cth received by spotting compared to 2 generic mercs that have no opinion whatsoever on each other.


got it, thanks.


do not forget to add character type(loner, etc) effect on cth to 1st message in thread, and you will probably need to fix example as well(due to Shadows loner character)
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329164] Sat, 21 December 2013 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Max_for_Hire

 
Messages:33
Registered:March 2009
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k13/Myxale/acaf04b9-f1bb-4255-ab81-fcd7db69d970_zps85a5ffcd.jpg
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329223] Mon, 23 December 2013 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LootFragg

 
Messages:344
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
I agree with E1vS with regards to Wisdom influencing spotting skill. My ArmA 2 experience says I can't use random players as spotters.

"I see one, right there. To our front. Like where I'm looking, look! Yeh, if you like look straight and then left, then you see it. Now he's standing up. Look, he's running err left. Distance to red house at 347? You mean the white house? The red one? Okay. Err... Hold on. I think 5. Err... 6169. Kilometers. Or no wait. Meters. Oh the other value? Eh, it's err... oh, I see the guy again, he's still running left. Distance? Err... 5? Now he's out in the open! Shoot, shoot!"

EXP > MRK > LDR > WIS is okay, but it should be relevant as it includes accurate communication and proper calculation.
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329250] Tue, 24 December 2013 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Shouldn't you take into consideration if they have communication equipment, too? I mean they shouldn't shout to each other, do they?
are these varibles externalized?
SPOTTER_PREPARATIONTURNS
SPOTTER_MAX_CTHBOOST
SPOTTER_RANGE
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329490] Fri, 03 January 2014 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AvianSavara

 
Messages:34
Registered:December 2013
Location: Montr
I tried today and the option was grayed out. My merc had the 20 APs, the binoculars and the.... patience? Razz

Not sure why exactly.

She was wearing NVGs, and I tested without and apparently, it's not that.

Is there another skill that she needs to have? (or a phlegmatic personality trait, for example?)

If not, then that leaves the binocular type. Are the Compact Binoculars not tagged with the same way as Quality Binoculars are for the purpose of this feature?


Moar info: using Build 6699, and I have used the xml editor previously (to edit armour out of the game, etc). Is it possible that the tag is not included and gets eaten by the editor when I save my datasets?

[Updated on: Fri, 03 January 2014 10:29] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329511] Fri, 03 January 2014 19:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@Maalstroom: yes, those are externalised.

@AvainSavara: In order to spot, a merc must
  • not be in a coma
  • be conscious
  • be awake
  • not be a prisoner
  • have an item with the -tag in one of her hands. Both binoculars in stock 1.13 have that tag, though the quality one is better.
AvianSavara

Moar info: using Build 6699, and I have used the xml editor previously (to edit armour out of the game, etc). Is it possible that the tag is not included and gets eaten by the editor when I save my datasets?
I think that shouldn't happen anymore now that JMich improved the editor, but looking can't hurt.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329519] Fri, 03 January 2014 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
I thought so, but in what file can I find them?
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329522] Fri, 03 January 2014 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
JA2_Options.ini.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329524] Fri, 03 January 2014 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
I'm sorry to say but there are no such variables in that file. I've erased my old one and after I've made an svn update and still no...
I'll put them in by hand.
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329528] Fri, 03 January 2014 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AvianSavara

 
Messages:34
Registered:December 2013
Location: Montr
I'm going to have to find a way to edit the items xml manually now. When I open it in notepad, it seems the file's text content has been concatenated into one long string without any paragraph breaks (makes searching a tad harder but it can still be done).

Any other text-based editors recommended?
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329529] Fri, 03 January 2014 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
AvianSavara
I'm going to have to find a way to edit the items xml manually now. When I open it in notepad, it seems the file's text content has been concatenated into one long string without any paragraph breaks (makes searching a tad harder but it can still be done).

Any other text-based editors recommended?


notepad++
it has syntax highlighting, which is very useful when working with xml files.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329536] Sat, 04 January 2014 02:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AvianSavara

 
Messages:34
Registered:December 2013
Location: Montr
Thanks a lot! Looks like a great little piece of software too.

I also noticed that JMich published the XML editor revision 160, like Flugente said, sssso... I'll try the editor first and then we'll see Wink
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329599] Mon, 06 January 2014 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1585
Registered:December 2012
Location: Soviet Russia
Starting from r6731, it is possible to call Skills Menu by pressing ALT + Right Mouse Button as described here .
Default $ hotkey (Shift+4) still works.
Menu placement was changed from soldier's position to mouse cursor.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329631] Wed, 08 January 2014 01:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
illuminatus

 
Messages:61
Registered:April 2009
Location: CA, USA
Firstly, what a great idea and your ability to follow through is truly remarkable, Flugente.

A few quick ideas which you may have already considered:
Would it make sense to increase the chance to improve in marksmanship / combat level for the spotter if targets are hit?
IIRC snipers (whether it's OCTH or NCTH) don't get accuracy bonuses for repeatedly firing at a target. Would it make sense for a bonus to accumulate if a sniper is firing repeatedly at the same target that has been spotted? (Accounts for the spotter helping the sniper dial in his/her aim)
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329632] Wed, 08 January 2014 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
illuminatus
Firstly, what a great idea and your ability to follow through is truly remarkable, Flugente.
Embarrassed

illuminatus
A few quick ideas which you may have already considered:
Would it make sense to increase the chance to improve in marksmanship / combat level for the spotter if targets are hit?
That would open an exploit where one could rack up marksmanship simply by lying around and looking at stuff. I'm not a fan of that, good idea though.
illuminatus
IIRC snipers (whether it's OCTH or NCTH) don't get accuracy bonuses for repeatedly firing at a target. Would it make sense for a bonus to accumulate if a sniper is firing repeatedly at the same target that has been spotted? (Accounts for the spotter helping the sniper dial in his/her aim)
Snipers (everyone basically) already gets a (very small) AP bonus for firing on the same tile. Not sure on wether there is also a cth bonus (I think there is one in NCTH).
The bonus you describe is kinda in already. You may have noticed that the bonus that a spotter gives increases over time even after he has become a spotter. So it takes a few turns until he becomes a spotter, and then his bonus gets bigger over time. So in this case, the bonus does not get bigger because the sniper fires repatedly, but because the spotter 'gathers more data'.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329661] Thu, 09 January 2014 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M16AMachinegun

 
Messages:307
Registered:September 2013
Requesting Extended Ears to increase range of those that benefit to a factor of 2x like how Deputy/Squadleader bonuses double in range with use of Extended Ears

Excellent idea! I usually have people sitting in the back with binoculars if they have weapons that are out of range, this'll totally help!

Edit 1: Oh! What about giving a slight bonus to anyone who is concentrating on aiming/looking in any one location for a while? Not as strong as the spotter (Reason: the merc has to keep control of his stance/weapon) but imo a merc should have some sort of bonus for keeping his attention aimed in a specific direction (doesnt HAVE to be aiming but obviously doing that is a good idea)

Or perhaps that's already accounted for how CTH works already.

Anyway, question: Will spotting help for shooting things within the gun's range but outside of visual range, such as using a 6x scope within its range (say if the base iron sight range is extended to, say, 13 like how it is in AFS) but outside of the visual range?

[Updated on: Thu, 09 January 2014 17:40] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329668] Thu, 09 January 2014 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As practically everybody wears th extended ears later on, this is a non-issue - you can simply increase the range of this skill in the ini.

Note that spotting does not depend on stance, and is also possible if aiming down a weapon, provided that there is an item in any hand that has the -tag. It has to be actively selected from the skill menu. Getting a bonus without it would give players a bonus without any preparation necessary, which I don't want.

Spotting increases a sniper's accuracy on tiles that the spotter can see ( and are outside the required range from the spotter). So yes, it also counts on tiles the sniper himself does not see. However, if you cannot see a target, the usual cth penalty is very high. 2 times nothing is still nothing, so this won't make your sniper that much better on blind-firing.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329680] Fri, 10 January 2014 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
I'm sorry to say flug but actually you can't change those variables in the ini.
It's either the wrong ini - perhaps not ja2_options.ini
either
you capped the values
or
I'n doing something wrong, but I've just added these three at the end of the ja2_options.ini

SPOTTER_PREPARATIONTURNS
SPOTTER_MAX_CTHBOOST
SPOTTER_RANGE

and no result.

also you shouldn't make such assumptions:
Quote:
As practically everybody wears the extended ears later on, this is a non-issue

please make wearing communication devices mandatory.
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329687] Fri, 10 January 2014 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hmpf. Those ini settings were removed from the ini due to an oversight, readded them in GameDir r1916.

You can't just add settings to a random location in the ini, these settings have to be in the [Tactical Gameplay Settings].

In all my games (and those I've seen), every merc later on wears extended ears. Even if you chose not to, they are easily available to anyone. Having them boost range would effectively boost the range without any cost, which I do not want.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329688] Sat, 11 January 2014 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M16AMachinegun

 
Messages:307
Registered:September 2013
Just started a new game, can't make Ira spot, it's greyed out.

Is it just because base Ira has derp stats?

using the 9 JAN 2014 release with the latest AFS over it

[Updated on: Sat, 11 January 2014 01:02] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329689] Sat, 11 January 2014 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As this comes up a lot: make sure you have binoculars in your hands, and that they have the -tag.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329690] Sat, 11 January 2014 01:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M16AMachinegun

 
Messages:307
Registered:September 2013
I might have to wait for a AFS update then. Darn! I really love the rebalancing that wil473 did...I suppose i'll have to wait or edit them myself
Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329691] Sat, 11 January 2014 01:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
It's adding one line, I have complete confidence in you :angel:


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329692] Sat, 11 January 2014 01:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M16AMachinegun

 
Messages:307
Registered:September 2013
Wow, that was surprisingly simple, actually

Hell, i might even be able to post a patch for wil

Edit 1: Erm...which xml document are scopes kept in?

Edit 2: Partial disregard, I think i'm good with just letting my mercs use binoculars to spot

[Updated on: Sat, 11 January 2014 01:54] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329693] Sat, 11 January 2014 01:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Scopes are also in Items.xml. All items are.


Re: New feature: Spotter[message #329695] Sat, 11 January 2014 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
M16AMachinegun

 
Messages:307
Registered:September 2013
Trying to edit stuff using the xml editor after adding the spotting tags to the binoculars creates the following error the moment it tries to load items.xml

Invalid Character in the given encoding. Line 19948, position 99

Line in question:
Another wonder of the depths of ACME fabrication. Maybe even more space you'll need ż/szItemDesc>

uh...?

Hang on, gonna try editing in the tags again now that i have notepad++

Where should I put the spotter tag in?

Edit 1: recopied files since i made a mistake and the JA2 XML Editor was giving me like 50 error messages before fatally crashing. Recopied in all places where there was a usSpotting tag

XML editor is working fine. I have to remake some items and whatnot before i can test

Edit 2: No idea what i screwed up, spotting's working now. cheers!

[Updated on: Sat, 11 January 2014 05:15] by Moderator

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