Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes
Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329856] Sun, 19 January 2014 23:46 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
<font size="">Pending feature: Increased Team sizes</font>
I've begun increasing the possible number of soldiers that can exist at any time. As a result, we can have both a higher team size and have a lot more soldiers/militia/civilians/creatures in the sector at any given time.

http://i43.tinypic.com/mbn3b5.png
I've hired all AIM and all MERC personnel. For the Horde!!!
You can scroll up and down the list with [PageUp] and [PageDown]
http://i39.tinypic.com/2vvjsqv.png
Landing in Omerta takes a friggin long time. Plus every merc complains about those he hates, which takes another 5 minutes :silly:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2m61oiu.png
Yeah... I stopped adding enemies after 90 or so. You get the point.
http://i41.tinypic.com/9fwuh0.png
Because I can, I filled Omerta with an extra 510 civilians. Because I can. Look at the minimap. Next turn was a bit annoying, as the enemy team was reinforced to 288 soldiers.
[url]&feature=youtu.be[/url][/video]
Hiring everybody takes bloody time. Did you know that hiring all of AIM costs over a million dollars?

Some of you will may that the maximum size of all teams combined until now was 255, as we stored the ID of soldiers in an UINT8 (it was in fact a bit smaller for reasons not relevant here). I've expanded this to UINT16. This will theoretically allow us to have 65535 soldiers in a sector at any given time (not that that would be practical). While I was at it (I had to touch at least 60% of all files by my estimation), I also cleaned up code a bit.

Now the thing is, I would like to have this in the trunk eventually. Not necessary in the 2014 stable. There are likely still legions of new bugs in this, due to the way things were coded (like, for example, a loop-variable being UINT8, which then causes an overflow and a possible endless loop when looping over all soldiers). I've seen really odd things^^. But it seems playable to me.

For this reason, i am now releasing this as a volatile release. This means that I provide the exe (and a slightly changed ini) for this. You can then play with this as you like. The intention of this is that you people play with increased team sizes and get errors. Which you then report to me, so I can fix them and release an updated exe so you can stumble upon new errors. Until you don't. At that point, I'll integrate this into the trunk, and we'll be happy ever after.

In this exe, there can be up to

  • 256 player mercenaries
  • 20 player vehicles
  • 512 enemy soldiers
  • 512 creatures
  • 512 militiamen
  • 512 civilians
present in tactical at the same time.

Note that when this eventually gets moved into the trunk, the teamsizes will be smaller. Having thousands of people in turnbased is slow, tedious and, in the end, not what JA2 needs. But I feel a bit less restrictions would be good. This opens the door to so many possible new developments - more teams, sentries, you name it - that... well, I feel good about it.

Now, if you use this and have an error to report, please upload a savegame here, and also upload your JA2_Options.ini with which the error occured. Also note that I do not intend to install various mods - I already have 10 JA2 installations an don't intend to expand. The exes itself will always be based on the current trunk, and so will contain all the current features. And no, it is absolutely NOT compatible with any existing savegames whatsoever.

You can get the exe here - now outdated. The ini has a new setting, SECTOR_FILL_UP_TEAMS, which simply maxes out the civilian team once you enter a sector. It also contains an expanded SquadNames.xml. I introduced maximum squadsize to 40, which is really necessary...

Edit 1: Update: New release (r6835).

  • Lots of fixes, both from the trunk and specific for this
  • Fixes include the error that Quest items could not be given to others and a bug that disabled the dialogue system.
  • WARNING! This is not savegame compatible with previous saves!

Edit 2: r6838 is better, as it also fixes a bug on bandaging.

Edit 3: Update: New volatile release (r6842).

  • Fix: graphical glitch in PreBattle Interface
  • Fix: enemy invasions without soldiers
  • Savegame compatible to 6835 and 6838 releases.

Edit 4: Update: New volatile release (r6872).

  • has all fixes of the current trunk, fixing a possible ctd related to the snitch trait
  • Fix: squadmates could be moved to squads > 20 only one at a time
  • Increased strategic group sizes to UINT16. I am somewhat hopeful that this will be the last structure changes I have to make...
  • ... sadly, this breaks savegame compatibility.

Update 5: New volatile release (r6952).

  • Fix: crash due to too many popup boxes
  • Fix: crash due to too many lines on screen
  • Savegame compatible to 6872 release.

Update: 6 New volatile release (r7012).

  • Fix: thanks to anv, the 'move merc' popupbox is fully functional again. Note that Data/Interface contains a necessary STI file for this.
  • Fix: MERC members accounts not displayed if they were at the end of the list
  • Savegame compatible to 6835 and 6838 and 6952 releases.

Update 7: New volatile release (r7051).

  • Fix: bomb ownership was not set correctly.
  • Savegame compatible to 7012 release.
  • Contains all new fixes, features (and bugs Wink ) that were added to the trunk until this revision.

Update 10: New volatile release (r7752).

  • Updated to current code

[Updated on: Mon, 23 February 2015 00:39]



Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329859] Mon, 20 January 2014 00:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nasenbaer

 
Messages:36
Registered:July 2013
Location: Germany
coooool, i always hoped someone would do this some time. THANKS!
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329861] Mon, 20 January 2014 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anv

 
Messages:231
Registered:March 2013
http://imageshack.com/a/img707/6413/xwrj.png

Does UINT16 treatment includes merc profiles, so we could use characters with higher indexes?


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329863] Mon, 20 January 2014 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TBCoW

 
Messages:6
Registered:December 2012
Quote:

In this exe, there can be up to
  • 256 player mercenaries
  • 20 player vehicles
  • 512 enemy soldiers
  • 512 creatures
  • 512 militiamen
  • 512 civilians
present in tactical at the same time.


I have 2 questions:
1. Does it mean that during counterattacks we get to fight all enemies at once?
2. Is upper limit of mobile militia on strategic map increased?
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329875] Mon, 20 January 2014 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:340
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
This may open new opportunities to mods, very nice!
I remember a funny result of code change you made earlier, that skipped the turn based system and allowed characters to act in real time. Well, that could be funny (and faster paced) with that much people!
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329878] Mon, 20 January 2014 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1446
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Big maps are gonna be fuuuun. Now, this if anything paves the road for generic, no-name, faceless mercs. Or perhaps controllable militia. *whistle*

Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329881] Mon, 20 January 2014 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
anv
http://imageshack.com/a/img707/6413/xwrj.png

Does UINT16 treatment includes merc profiles, so we could use characters with higher indexes?
No. I enlarged IDs to UINT16, but Profiles are still UINT8. It is a lot less work though, but I'd rather not mix these two, the changes are already massive. Also, respect for the original devs to put that line in Smile

TBCoW
1. Does it mean that during counterattacks we get to fight all enemies at once?
Yes, provided the enemy force does not have more than 512 soldiers and you did not lower MAX_NUMBER_ENEMIES_IN_TACTICAL (JA2_Options.ini) below that value.

TBCoW
2. Is upper limit of mobile militia on strategic map increased?
Yes. Groupsizes have also been increased.

Slax
big maps are gonna be fuuuun. Now, this if anything paves the road for generic, no-name, faceless mercs. Or perhaps controllable militia. *whistle*
The ability to directly control soldiers without a profile is, in principle, independent of this. And a bad idea in my personal opinion, a lot of Jagged Alliance's appeal comes from the personality of those you command. I don't want to change that.


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329883] Mon, 20 January 2014 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Forral

 
Messages:72
Registered:May 2009
Location: Sweden
Flugente
The ability to directly control soldiers without a profile is, in principle, independent of this. And a bad idea in my personal opinion, a lot of Jagged Alliance's appeal comes from the personality of those you command. I don't want to change that.

Wouldn't the personalities, likes and dislikes, and individual behaviour of the mercenaries generate a complete management clusterfuck though? Basically having to compare the likes and dislikes of a few score other mercenaries to establish whether the Squad Platoon can actually operate effectively, and not to mention trying to keep them all outfitted and in good health. I don't really see any way around that without sacrificing depth of character, or introducing automatic processes which are equally cold and faceless.

Militia control or control of faceless mercenaries with pre-selected equipment and specializations might not bring with it the management problems that the classic mercenaries would, but I can see how one might not be willing to make the sacrifice. A combined approach might be still be interesting; where the combat group is made up a few fleshed out individuals, with personality and customized equipment akin to the classic characters, and they are in turn supported with faceless hired guns and controllable militia.
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329885] Mon, 20 January 2014 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1494
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Yes it would and THAT is exactly what makes JA
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329887] Tue, 21 January 2014 00:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1446
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
I know one person who'd like an army of no-face killers at his disposal. He isn't the best of commanders so there are a lot of deaths. Razz

Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329889] Tue, 21 January 2014 04:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie_May

 
Messages:27
Registered:March 2009
Nice. I actually asked for this feature a couple of years ago (simply wanted to play with more than 32 mercs), but was told it would be too complicated to realize... Apparently, that didn't scare you. Way to go! This couldn't come at a better time, with AIMNAS advancing at a good pace once again! Now we can properly populate those big maps, especially city sectors.
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329891] Tue, 21 January 2014 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kladdey

 
Messages:76
Registered:December 2009

It.. is.. AWESOME. Drassen counterattack with all the goons at once makes me drool!
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329892] Tue, 21 January 2014 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zarax

 
Messages:51
Registered:February 2007
Location: Italy
Flugente, is there anything you can't do with the code?
I'm sure you have a 3D release hidden somewhere Razz
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329893] Tue, 21 January 2014 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:342
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
multiple floor system is a long time request Smile If you can do that you'r a god! Smile
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329901] Tue, 21 January 2014 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:296
Registered:November 2008
I second the "generic" mercs. This would make it possible to have XCOM like conversion.
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329902] Tue, 21 January 2014 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1494
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
so why don't play Xcom?
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329906] Tue, 21 January 2014 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
I can't believe I'm writing this, but here it is: I'm 100% with Gorro on this one. Anonymous throwaway mercs are an absolute no-go.


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329907] Tue, 21 January 2014 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2004
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Flugente
I can't believe I'm writing this, but here it is: I'm 100% with Gorro on this one. Anonymous throwaway mercs are an absolute no-go.


I also agree with you on this!


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329910] Wed, 22 January 2014 00:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
Me too, this is getting scary :yikes:


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329912] Wed, 22 January 2014 00:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Apparently a few people were confused by the ini I provided (I did not change the descriptions of the settings, which still stated 32 mercs max). I since reuploaded a correct one (Link at the end of first post).
; Player mercs, valid values 1 through 256, default is 24
MAX_NUMBER_PLAYER_MERCS = 256
; Player vehicles, valid values 2 through 20, default is 2
MAX_NUMBER_PLAYER_VEHICLES = 20

;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Use these to adjust the numbers of various sorts of "people" that can appear in the same sector in TACTICAL mode.
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

; Enemies (i.e., soldiers), valid values 16 through 512, default is 32
MAX_NUMBER_ENEMIES_IN_TACTICAL = 512
; Creatures (i.e., bloodcats and crepitus), valid values 0 through 512, default is 32
MAX_NUMBER_CREATURES_IN_TACTICAL = 512
; Rebels (i.e., militia), valid values 16 through 512, default is 32
MAX_NUMBER_MILITIA_IN_TACTICAL = 512
; Civilians, valid values 16 through 512, default is 32
MAX_NUMBER_CIVS_IN_TACTICAL = 512
To clarify, nothing has changed apart from these descriptions.


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329913] Wed, 22 January 2014 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:342
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
I was wondering what would be the benefit of this future? Now i see it - you can have an over crowded balime and you can send there suicide bombers - and the news will go crazy...!?!?!

no, really besides a massive zombie attack and the massive diedrana counter attacks what's the real use of this feature?

I'm not saying it's a bad addition, it's beautiful as always but what's the point?
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329921] Wed, 22 January 2014 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
To fill up areas with more capacity, duh. Vanilla hamlets may look crowded and 'SAM sites' overstuffed at the current cap - but even AIMNAS villages look eerily empty. Not to forget:
a) Counterattacks will really hit you rather than having one mainwave and a trickle of reinforcements coming in ones and twos.
b) You can hire a decent sized fighting force and still have room for staff and logistics forces


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329937] Wed, 22 January 2014 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WillyWonka

 
Messages:123
Registered:February 2006
Location: Sweden/Sverige
DepressivesBrot
...
b) You can hire a decent sized fighting force and still have room for staff and logistics forces


I agree on this one. A maximum of around 50 mercs would be perfect.

Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329938] Wed, 22 January 2014 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:342
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
ok guys if you say so... now we need some powerful static machine gun emplacements Smile how else can you kill 512 enemies in 15 minutes?
does anybody remember this?
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=279450

i don't understand why the static guns weren't implemented for the big body type already, the animation seems to be ready.
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329939] Wed, 22 January 2014 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
First, of all, you aren't. The 512 enemies are only in this test version as a 'stress test'. If this ever finds its way into the trunk, the value will be much lower.

Static emplacements are very, very difficult. The animation is nice, but useless, at least in any implementation I can think of. Static emplacements would require the ability to create new structures. That is currently impossible in maps that weren't created with those tiles (see fortification feature). We were able to load structures into maps that do not have those after a huge effort at the summer convention two years ago. However, there are still huge problems with that (no shadows, doors don't work etc.), so I've suspended development until further notice.

Apart from that, static guns would require a way to store a gun object (which map structures cannot do currently), firing animations for a structure (again, not existing) and a way for soldier animations to interact with tiles in a complicated way. Plus, we need a way to aim and fire with weapons that are in a different position than the mercs firing them. For example, what the merc sees is not what the gun 'sees', which then requires significant modifications/rewrite in all cth functions.

In short, the idea that the animation part is the biggest issue with gun emplacements is... very very wrong.


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329940] Wed, 22 January 2014 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Since you asked, these are the immediate benefits of this feature in my view:
  • More mercenaries. Where the best value is and how much is to much is open for debate. 50?
  • Harder Counterattacks.
  • Current cities, especially in AIMNAS, are empty. Changing that would add more 'life'.
Future development would also benefit:
  • We can now add new teams. So one day, one might have several factions that fight each other. Imagine a mod where the player can select which side he chooses. Imagine huge threeway battles. Still lots of code needed, and this is a definite precondition.
  • The easiest implementation of Sentries would be to have them as unmovable soldiers. Bad idea up to now, as it limits the enemy team when heavily used, but now much more likely.
  • Zombies currently share a team with bugs and bloodcats, and thus don't attack each other. No more need of that if they are a separate team.
  • Multiplayer where each player has their own militia, and then duke it out in an epic struggle^^
  • Who is to say that the enemy is a monolithic block? The enemy could fracture into different factions as the player pummels the army. Hell, why not have your own militia rebel? Or the US invade?
+Other things I need to think about.


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329941] Wed, 22 January 2014 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1494
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
3 Platoons = 1 Kompanie = 105
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329945] Thu, 23 January 2014 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:442
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
Good for more enemies but more mercs? Nah, not for me. Not in squad nor overall.
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329947] Thu, 23 January 2014 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
drunk71

 
Messages:56
Registered:March 2004
Location: England

Love it...........

I tend to hire guys and keep them at a city on the map and rotate them as squads from there. Like a forward base. So to have more than 32 is fab.....

Can't wait for this to be part of the trunk as an option. Keep up the fab work Smile
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329951] Thu, 23 January 2014 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Max_for_Hire

 
Messages:32
Registered:March 2009
Stuff of epic proportions.

Just perfect for things like BigMaps. Smile

Once more cheers Flugente.
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329956] Fri, 24 January 2014 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headshot

 
Messages:176
Registered:May 2002
Location: Los Angeles ( Hollywood )...

The one thing I have not seen anyone really address ( which is THE most critical thing in my opinion ) is the ability to easily change and add end game and mission triggers / conditions. All the other things everyone has been working on is eye candy and bloat. The core elements to JA modding IMO has always been to create new stories and missions that would NOT require specific sectors for character triggers nor a fixed end game trigger ( ie kill the character ). I do appreciate all the hard work everyone has put in over the years and the outcome has been pretty good. But without new triggers and end game conditions you are basically playing the same game over and over.

Just my 2 cents ... oh and I raised this argument back when 1.13 was first starting out that years ago. I am not a coder so I cant do it. IF it were done you would see lots more mods being made as it would allow multitudes of different type of missions.

Headshot
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #329960] Fri, 24 January 2014 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:342
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
flug with the following 3 you've nailed it! now I'm all in!


Quote:

We can now add new teams. So one day, one might have several factions that fight each other. Imagine a mod where the player can select which side he chooses. Imagine huge threeway battles. Still lots of code needed, and this is a definite precondition.
The easiest implementation of Sentries would be to have them as unmovable soldiers. Bad idea up to now, as it limits the enemy team when heavily used, but now much more likely.
Who is to say that the enemy is a monolithic block? The enemy could fracture into different factions as the player pummels the army. Hell, why not have your own militia rebel? Or the US invade?


flug but how does firing from the hip works?
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #330026] Sun, 26 January 2014 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Maalstroom
flug but how does firing from the hip works?
Eh... It's a separate scope mode independent from the attachments found on a gun, and is only accessible when standing. But how is that relevant?


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #330027] Sun, 26 January 2014 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Btw: I've heard from 2 different sources that some people have a problem moving squads in Omerta when they've hired loads of people. As I did not get that error, a savegame would be very helpful (if the game is without any additional mods like AR etc.).


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #330029] Sun, 26 January 2014 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:342
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Flug, please accept my apologizes for hijacking a little bit this thread. Some one opened another thread on static guns here

http://www.bears-pit.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/329950/static_guns.html#Post329950

so we won't interfere anymore. an answer about relevance is posted there.
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #330058] Sun, 26 January 2014 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Update: New volatile release (r6835).
  • Lots of fixes, both from the trunk and specific for this
  • Fixes include the error that Quest items could not be given to others and a bug that disabled the dialogue system.
  • WARNING! This is not savegame compatible with previous saves!
r6838 is better, as it also fixes a bug on bandaging.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 January 2014 00:51] by Moderator



Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #330086] Mon, 27 January 2014 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jakub

 
Messages:38
Registered:January 2014
Am approved this makes new opportunities but now you should make automatic system reaming player merc it takes long time ...
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #330089] Mon, 27 January 2014 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1494
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Jakub
Am approved this makes new opportunities but now you should make [color:#FF0000]automatic system reaming player merc[/color] it takes long time ...


???
Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #330092] Mon, 27 January 2014 20:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
With a high likelyhood: rearming, i.e. attaching new arms after they've been blown away by bombs.


Re: Pending Feature: Increased Team sizes[message #330096] Mon, 27 January 2014 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hmm. Makes a bit more sense than reaming, but I still have no idea what he meant^^


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