Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » Jagged Alliance 2 General » Vanilla jagged 2 questions.
Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #330901] Thu, 27 February 2014 23:41 Go to next message
Tyxe

 
Messages:77
Registered:May 2012
Location: France
I have never played vanilla but i know that it has two scopes : a Sniper Scope (Effective range to target is decreased by 20% for every level of aiming) and a Laser Scope (Adds 20% to chance to hit).
However I don't know the amount of increase to the sight range they provide, if any?.

Also as i understand it sun goggles in 1.13 gives a 10% vision range bonus daytime and 20% at bright level (so respectively 2.6 and 5.2 squares vision bonus)
In vanilla they only improve sight range by up to 2 squares but only for greater than normal daylight levels.
Am i correct ?

Also if someone is actually playing vanilla jagged 2 (or with the Stracciatella mod), i would be interested if they could send me a mid (or late)save game.
It would allow me to see how it plays mid game without having to spend the hours necessary to get there.
Thanks.
Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #330915] Fri, 28 February 2014 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
If you're really interested in Chance to Hit calculations, you might find Headrock's exhaustive guides helpful. He's talking mostly about v1.13 but some formulas apply to vanilla too.

http://www.jagalaxy.com/index.php/faq/headrock-s-how-does-it-work/3008-chance-to-hit-cth-part-1-of-2.html

http://www.jagalaxy.com/index.php/faq/headrock-s-how-does-it-work/3009-chance-to-hit-cth-part-2-of-2.html

And a lot of other "secrets" explained:
http://www.jagalaxy.com/index.php/faq/headrock-s-how-does-it-work/index.1.html



Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #330916] Fri, 28 February 2014 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tyxe

 
Messages:77
Registered:May 2012
Location: France
Thanks,it was interesting and have read most of it.
Unfortunately it doesn't give info about the item that provide base sight range bonus.
I'm not talking about cth range bonus but if in vanilla scope give you a bonus to the base sight range of 13, or of your base sight range is always 13 no matter what (except sun/night goggles in the right condition).
Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #330951] Sat, 01 March 2014 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAsmine

 
Messages:318
Registered:May 2011
I hope this (very, very old) savegame will work and help you:

http://www.jaggedalliance.de/count.php?l=/download/files/save.zip

Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #330986] Mon, 03 March 2014 00:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tyxe

 
Messages:77
Registered:May 2012
Location: France
Just tried it and it works !
I only had to rename it SaveGame.
Very much appreciated, i will see how advance vanilla play now Smile

Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #331068] Wed, 05 March 2014 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tyxe

 
Messages:77
Registered:May 2012
Location: France
Well vanilla ja2 is so much more difficult than 1.13.
Quite frustrating or there is something i don't understand.
I tried the save and move the main squad to play a random fight happening in the middle of the map 'desert sector), daytime, only red shirt.
Got my ass kicked (i win but quite a lot of injuries).
The fact that i have no sight bonus daytime make the game extremely hard to me.
The AI spot me first most of the time which mean serious casualties/injuries for me.
Sometimes the AI shoot at me and i even don't see any enemies, which happened rarely in 1.13.
Moreover it seems the AI gets more interrupt and my squad less than in 1.13.
The AI is much more accurate too (but i notice my mercs are also much more accurate).
It did not expected that, i used to play expert 1.13 NTCH (with huge nerf for all scopes).
Is there a general gameplay trick ?
Especially to spot the enemy first ?
I may be able to win the fight without damage if i play extremely cautiously but its seem very hard to me).
And that is only a small fight, can't imagine a big one against elite.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 March 2014 22:06] by Moderator

Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #331070] Wed, 05 March 2014 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAsmine

 
Messages:318
Registered:May 2011
This is just my point of view, but I think, that quite some of v1.13's features make the game easier for the players.
So, yes, Vanilla JA2 is *much* simpler and tends to be harder than v1.13.
You can't play Vanilla exactly the same way as v1.13.
v1.13 is almost a different game because of the many changes done to JA2.

Now concerning your short experience with Vanilla JA2.:
A battle in an open desert sector without cover in daytime is one of the toughest fights you can possibly pick in Vanilla JA2. Night battles are much easier, if you have some night vision goggles and/or breaklights.

Concerning sight range/spotting:
It's the same for you and your enemy. Best way to have an advantage over your enemy is to fight at night and use one merc as spotter. With camouflage and night vision goggles or UV-goggles.
The spotter will only try to detect the enemy. He should not shoot (because it would uncover him).

Concerning avoiding getting hit:
Seriously, the only way not to get hit is to make good use of cover all the time and favor bringing your merc to a save spot over shooting the enemy. -> being very cautios.

So, in short:
- fight at night
- avoid fights in open wilderness/desert sectors
- make use of cover (trees etc) and stance (never standing, crouching most of the time)
- try and use a spotter

Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #331079] Thu, 06 March 2014 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tyxe

 
Messages:77
Registered:May 2012
Location: France
After some tries I manage to win the desert fight without almost any injuries (only 2 mercs very slightly wounded).
I use the trick to shoot in the wild to attract the opposition so i can interrupt them and shoot first instead of me coming to them.
But even then i found vanilla much harder.
I wonder if the AI interrupt chance have been modified in v1.13 because with the same sight range red shirts often spot me first while in 1.13 even without using scope/goggles (so same sight range) i used to spot them first.
Makes a big difference hehe.

I also tried a night fight and i was quite reassured to see that it was very easy.
Certainly not as easy than in vanilla 1.13 with night goggle v4, and other new stuffs that give you a night sight bonus, but as i had greatly nerfed all those i was at ease.
Next I should try a bigger fight daytime against elite to see how it works.

For me that have never played vanilla it's a great experience to be able to see the difference with 1.13 (which are bigger than i though).
I felt something was very wrong with the AI behavior/scopes and goggles sight range bonus/scopes magnification bonus in 1.13.
Already, without knowing vanilla, the previous tweaks i've done to 1.13 make it play much closer to the original.
With your save i'm going to tweak some more 1.13 to create my "personal optimal" mix.
Thanks again Smile











Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #331081] Thu, 06 March 2014 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAsmine

 
Messages:318
Registered:May 2011
Glad to see that you're making progress. Btw, the savegame was not from my own playing.

If you haven't played Vanilla before, I would very much recommend you to give it a go. Maybe you could go straight for Stracciatella https://bitbucket.org/gennady/ja2-stracciatella since it offers 100% Vanilla content with an improved technical base (e.g. high resolution, cross-plattform compatibility, possibility to play in windowed or fullscreen mode and, and, and...).

Really, v1.13 and Vanilla are almost two completely different games. JA2 has always been rather complex. But if Vanilla was complex, v1.13 with all it's new content is... REALLY complex. Wink

Re: Vanilla jagged 2 questions.[message #331271] Fri, 14 March 2014 23:52 Go to previous message
-CHAZZ-

 
Messages:84
Registered:August 2003
Location: Croatia, Europe
After trying the various mods-ads, addons-upgrades, I am still playing the 1.03 version, the weapon-x's 8000+ 'mod'.Burst bug FTW.
As already well known, that particular save pits your merry band of mercs against more than 8000 Deidranna's goons in total. ALL landlocked sectors are populated with a minimum of 32 enemies, plus the normal garrison/patrol. Sometimes you face 60 enemies at once.A curious fact: apparently, the game engine has a limited number of spawn points/patrol routes for enemy soldiers for each sector. So, instead of spawning 60 enemies, the game spawns (I hink) about 30, and the rest slowly jump in the sector from the side you entered in! The first time it happened tome i was shocked: enemy incoming from behind my line?? WTF?? Smile
It was hilarious too, since it looked like they all were spawning from my icecream truck..which eneded up badly shot up after the battle Smile
I tried daylight battles, I really did, employed my best men,tactics, smoke screens and longbarreled guns, but I always get kicked in the butt. Once the enemy pile up in front of me, its a matter of seconds before my mercs get law-ed, mortared, shot up to pieces.
The only way for me to enjoy this particular type of JA2 is to revert to 100% night ops. Except when I am defending a sector, but then, Deidranna's squads are 'just' 10-20 men big, so I can manage that.
In time, I lost those 8000+ and 8000Harder saves, but recently found them on an fossil-old zip-drive disc. haha, Iomega was a cool company, their disc drives still work after almost 15 years of collecting dust on my attic Smile
P.S.
For a long time I played the 1.12 version (and wildfire/UC addons), and it was great. But the 8000+ game is (to me) unfun except on 1.03 version. the 1.12 brought a different A.I. which makes large use of break lights (which use I avoid in respect to the poorer A.I. in vanilla). And getting struck by half a dozen break lights per turn ruins my fun.Normal game ver.1.12 is ok, much much less enemies results in just a few lightsticks here and there, I can manage and counter-fight that, or use their own lighted areas against them.

[Updated on: Fri, 14 March 2014 23:58] by Moderator

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