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JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331598] Wed, 02 April 2014 16:42 Go to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Discussion topic for the announced JAF Alpha release

Thomas Lund has just announced in an interview with Rock Paper Shotgun that FC will release the first alpha sectors to backers on Thursday. That is TOMORROW! Talk about dropping a bomb out of nowhere. The full RPS interview is here and it's worth reading cause has a lot of stuff in it:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/04/02/jagged-alliance-interview-exclusive-alpha/


Here are the yummiest pieces of the interview (quotes from Thomas) if you're in a hurry:

Quote:
There are four sectors and you start out at the gas station that you may have seen in screenshots. Then you go through to other levels and end up at a prison. In each sector you have to kill all the enemies before you can move on and there

[Updated on: Wed, 02 April 2014 16:55] by Moderator



Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331604] Wed, 02 April 2014 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tyxe

 
Messages:77
Registered:May 2012
Location: France
I really like the art style, very "jagged alliance" like.
Great job by FC, perfectly translate the right mood.

I backed the project but have not followed the development closely, kind of regret it now.
It would be awesome if FC achieves to capture the "JA" dialogs/writing as well as the JA graphics.

For a such a low budget game i rather like not voice over at all (despite loving it in the previous game)than mediocre ones.
It also would have the big advantage of more dialogs (and characters).
A pop up dialog box for mercs interaction/quotes could do the trick just fine IMO.
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331605] Wed, 02 April 2014 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
I am very curious about the whole mechanics thing and how close it feels to JA2. I'd really hate to find out I can't do essential moves that I was able to perform 15 years ago.


Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331610] Thu, 03 April 2014 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1448
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Hope it turns into a new "JA2 demo" we can play and play and play and play and play and... Very Happy

Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331612] Thu, 03 April 2014 03:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Slax
Hope it turns into a new "JA2 demo" we can play and play and play and play and play and... Very Happy


...and mod lol...


Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331614] Thu, 03 April 2014 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Problem is : this is not a demo, it is an alpha restricted to people backing for very large amounts of money Sad

Nevertheless, it looks very promising on paper, let's hope for the best!
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331615] Thu, 03 April 2014 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
True, you can't distribute the Alpha so it would be only modding for personal use. But still a good way to weight the difficulty and the extent of the possible modding.


Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331616] Thu, 03 April 2014 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
I'm dying to know.. is it alive? Smile
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331617] Thu, 03 April 2014 20:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m_s0

 
Messages:21
Registered:August 2010
Maalstroom
I'm dying to know.. is it alive? Smile

I don't think it's possible on that kind of budget. Not a bad idea, though. They should've added sentience as a stretch goal incentive-thing. Wink

A more important question right now would be: is it live? The screenshots (art style etc.) picked my interest.

[Updated on: Thu, 03 April 2014 20:53] by Moderator

Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331619] Thu, 03 April 2014 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sardonic_wrath

 
Messages:48
Registered:June 2011
some of this has me worried... hope the second part of the RPS interview will clarify and dissipate my doubts.

No reason to panic yet, but modding is a very broad term and the way he talks about it leaves me unsure of wether he means the kind of modding this game (in my opinion-) needs.

In that regard I was very dissapointed with some triple A titles like Oblivion, which promised modding, but because of severe limitations proper mods were hardly possible, and all you could get were very minor mods, like shitty reskins

I don't expect open source, but without script support and an API to access core mechanics of the game I wouldn't consider a game really moddable, even if there are fancy tools and externalised data to do superficial changes, like cosmetic or balancing ones.

In regard to budget and more "casual" players, its clear that we can't expect something like 1.13 from FC.
But without the possibility to recreate some of the 1.13 systems, I really don't know what I am supposed to do with this game... some ideas, like the suppression system, or AP scaling, are just to good to go back from.

Quote:
To add your own assets, you need Unity Pro because we use asset bundles, which are an advanced form of zip files that Unity uses. But then you can add your own models.

From what i gather, unity pro runs at 1500$.
FC said themselves, budget severly limits the content that will be in the game, and now apparently we can't add our own stuff? We could always get organized and crowdfund our mods, or resort to pirate bay, but come on...

I wonder why that is... and it better be an unavoidable technical necessity with unity, and not just FC using that format to protect their own assets.

[Updated on: Thu, 03 April 2014 21:36] by Moderator

Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331620] Thu, 03 April 2014 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
I wonder how limited is the demo version of Unity Pro...

But honestly, unless you're going for full-scale modding (which in return can be crowdfunded if the project is cool enough), there's little need to create your own game assets. It all depends how characters, equipment and weapons are implemented, those are the main modding targets.


Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331622] Thu, 03 April 2014 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m_s0

 
Messages:21
Registered:August 2010
sardonic_wrath
some of this has me worried... hope the second part of the RPS interview will clarify and dissipate my doubts.

No reason to panic yet, but modding is a very broad term and the way he talks about it leaves me unsure of wether he means the kind of modding this game (in my opinion-) needs.

In that regard I was very dissapointed with some triple A titles like Oblivion, which promised modding, but because of severe limitations proper mods were hardly possible, and all you could get were very minor mods, like shitty reskins

I don't expect open source, but without script support and an API to access core mechanics of the game I wouldn't consider a game really moddable, even if there are fancy tools and externalised data to do superficial changes, like cosmetic or balancing ones.

In regard to budget and more "casual" players, its clear that we can't expect something like 1.13 from FC.
But without the possibility to recreate some of the 1.13 systems, I really don't know what I am supposed to do with this game... some ideas, like the suppression system, or AP scaling, are just to good to go back from.

Quote:
To add your own assets, you need Unity Pro because we use asset bundles, which are an advanced form of zip files that Unity uses. But then you can add your own models.

From what i gather, unity pro runs at 1500$.
FC said themselves, budget severly limits the content that will be in the game, and now apparently we can't add our own stuff? We could always get organized and crowdfund our mods, or resort to pirate bay, but come on...

I wonder why that is... and it better be an unavoidable technical necessity with unity, and not just FC using that format to protect their own assets.

I don't know much about modding (or Unity for that matter), but MMX also requires Unity Pro for modding of the slightly more serious variety:

support.ubi.com/en-US/FAQ.aspx?platformid=9&productid=4356&faqid=kA030000000ecffCAA

I've also seen a lot of people talk about how Unity isn't very mod(der)-friendly. Wasteland 2 uses Unity, is supposed to get a toolkit and mod support, and is getting released sometime this year, so it may be worth paying attention how that works out.

My gut feeling is this: don't expect much, even with $1500 to spare. I'll be pretty happy if the game ends up being decent and if it's going to allow for some basic tweaking, but my expectations for any JA title are, admittedly, very low at this point, and I don't find FC's track record terribly reassuring. Fingers crossed, basically.

[Updated on: Thu, 03 April 2014 23:22] by Moderator

Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331627] Fri, 04 April 2014 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sirlach

 
Messages:47
Registered:June 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Wow. I thought we were still months away from a playable Alpha! I take back some of the nasty things I have been saying. Smile FC have been busy. Downloading now.
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331628] Fri, 04 April 2014 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sidew

 
Messages:50
Registered:June 2012
I got yesterday my alpha key access...
I found the game very raw ( most ui buttons are placeholdeer, fixed inventory, no skill) but the core is playable and very good...
When you 're in no combat situation, is real time like JA2, when a combat starts, the game changes to turn based and the mechanism of turns looks like Shadowrun returns.

Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331633] Fri, 04 April 2014 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sardonic_wrath

 
Messages:48
Registered:June 2011
I asked Thomas Lund on the RPS comments, and he confirmed that we can't get models into the game without Unity pro.

From what I found, there are workarounds, such as writing your own importer for models or using a third party one - but this requires some effort on the developers side. Not sure how much though.
See http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/111100-Modding-Support-Allow-free-edition-to-export-asset-bundles

I hope the modding advisors can already take a better look at moddability in this build.
And I hope they are actually being talked to, that it wasn't just to calm us down for the kickstarter...

Shanga

But honestly, unless you're going for full-scale modding (which in return can be crowdfunded if the project is cool enough), there's little need to create your own game assets. It all depends how characters, equipment and weapons are implemented, those are the main modding targets.



Even if its legally and technically possible to just have one license of Unity pro for a bigger project - which I don't believe - 1500
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #331638] Fri, 04 April 2014 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
derek

 
Messages:150
Registered:April 2010
for those with no alpha access (found this video)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CBVc8JNpPY
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #332739] Sat, 17 May 2014 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Drglord

 
Messages:15
Registered:May 2013
i really don't get it. People are excited about this when this will be for sure 10% of what 1.13 is right now. I mean why get excited for a game that will be worst for sure? Unless it is at least as good as 1.13 (Arulco folding Stock blows my mind) why bother? for the higher resolutions? yeah it would be nice to see higher resolutions but this will be a sandbox game when compared to 1.13.
Just my thoughts and wondering what is all the fuss.
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #332741] Sat, 17 May 2014 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rummtata

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2011
Location: Germany
Well, Dragon, you at least have to admit that at the moment, JA:F leaves a better impression than all those indescribably disappointing failures to make a JA3 we've had up till now Wink

Also, a 3d engine is, in general, not only cheaper and more flexible for the devs, but also for modders. There is so much you just can't do with a low-res, 2d isometric game. Think of easily customizable characters, weapons, vehicles, level objects, effects, both in terms of texture and model.

Isn't that something to hope for? Wink
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #332742] Sat, 17 May 2014 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:575
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
Dragonlord
I mean why get excited for a game that will be worst for sure?
Because we hope that the base game will be as good as JA2, and the modding support will be as good as JA2's. While JA2 is an excellent game, and source code access has enabled us to create excellent things, it still runs on a 15 year old engine that has quite a few limitations. JA:F could possibly give us a base to work on modding, and allow us to create new stuff with.

And AFS is after all an item mod, which JA:F already supports. Unless you mean the 1.13 changes that AFS uses.
Re: JAF first Alpha comes tomorrow!!! - DISCUSSION[message #332756] Sun, 18 May 2014 00:48 Go to previous message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Take a simple task as creating a sector. In Unity/JAF you can do that in one hour without any crashes. In JA2 Editor it's still a pain and you are always at risk of losing your work.

Or quests and other things you need INI and special code stuff. In JAF you do not need years of code research. It's all there in text/JSON format. Want bigger zoom? You have 2 lines to edit. Want to tweak CtH and individual weapon damage or fire mode penalties? Text/JSON. Merc and enemy looks, inventory and stats? JSON again. Quests, dialogues and mission triggers... Yep, you guessed. All in text files. True, JA:F can't compare to v1.13. But also we won't need 15 years to get it to v1.13 level either.

As for graphics, all models are editable. And modular. In JA2 we still have no animation editor. With JAF that's pretty easy.

So the future looks great.


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