Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Combat/Weapon Academy » Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?
Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331743] Mon, 14 April 2014 06:39 Go to next message
Azure_Repeater

 
Messages:152
Registered:March 2014
Location: Philippines
Hi! I really think the Mk2 Defensive Grenade and the Mini Grenade is worthless. They actually do little damage in the game. In real life, they actually KILL people. I honestly don't know what their use is in the game. I mean, most of the guns in the game do more damage. The grenade damage in the game isn't realistic.

In real life = GRENADE! TAKE COVER!
In the game = Haha! Didn't feel a thing!

So, are grenades really worthless? If not, then what do you guys use them for?
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331745] Mon, 14 April 2014 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Grenades are nice for crowd control and for hitting hidden enemies. Soldiers that have been hit by a grenade will be flat on the ground and not interrupt you when you move towards their position.

Grenades are far from being useless. Wink

If you think grenades do too little damage you can always change their damage value in Explosives.xml in your own game.

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331750] Mon, 14 April 2014 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cowhide

 
Messages:30
Registered:October 2013
You can solve this very easily. I always increase the damage of explosives with the ini-editor to 150%. I set the explosive suppression even higher , to 200.

These are the settings you are looking for:

EXPLOSIVES_DAMAGE_MODIFIER

EXPLOSIVE_SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS








Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331755] Tue, 15 April 2014 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Luke
You can solve this very easily. I always increase the damage of explosives with the ini-editor to 150%.

These are the settings you are looking for:

EXPLOSIVES_DAMAGE_MODIFIER

Just keep in mind that this changes the damage value for ALL explosives not just the two grenade types that he mentioned. Also it affect both health and breath damage. That's why I would like to remove this modifier completely because we have DAMAGE_HEALTH_EXPLOSIVE_MODIFIER and DAMAGE_BREATH_EXPLOSIVE_MODIFIER in Item_Settings.ini for some time now in the development build.

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331762] Tue, 15 April 2014 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jasmith

 
Messages:32
Registered:January 2013
Location: US
Silversurfer, I know there was a big move a couple of months ago to clean up the .ini files. There are a lot of settings in the basic options .ini that really could go in the mod_settings or item_settings files. The remaining damage modifiers could go to items, along with overheating choices, while the Strategic Gamestart and probably the system limit and data file options could go to mod_settings just because they're either set especially by modders or left alone. Changing all that probably isn't worth the trouble, but I figure there's no better time to bring it up than prior to a stable release.

Also, a general question about cleaning up the ini's (fixing language issues or prettying up the formatting): is that kind of thing handled through the translation groups these days, or just as small patches?
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331779] Wed, 16 April 2014 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
I doubt that people who do translation work will fix text issues in the ini files. Texts in ini files are just for explanation of a setting. It's not as important as proper text in the game itself as long as the statement itself is valid.

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331784] Thu, 17 April 2014 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Azure_Repeater

 
Messages:152
Registered:March 2014
Location: Philippines
Thanks for the advice! I used to replace my Mk2 grenades with stun grenades. But now, I'm gonna increase the Mini and Mk2 Grenade (as well as some other explosives) Thanks, guys! I appreciate your advice! Wink
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331788] Fri, 18 April 2014 01:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2089
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
I must admit I play an Insane level game most of the time with explosives having around 50-150% damage (depends on which version I'm running!). The stock values don't do enough damage for a hardcore style game, in a lot of ways it's the difference between playing something like CoD in normal mode or Hardcore mode. I've always played the latter as it's far more realistic (not that CoD is realistic!!!).


Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331805] Sat, 19 April 2014 05:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Azure_Repeater

 
Messages:152
Registered:March 2014
Location: Philippines
In regular 1.13, I set the EXPLOSIVES_DAMAGE_MODIFIER to 150. It's still not enough, though. In AIMNAS, now that grenades deal more damage, I set the EXPLOSIVES_DAMAGE_MODIFIER to 125, and I am now happy about the grenade damage. Wink
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336144] Thu, 25 September 2014 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vincent J. Claymore

 
Messages:270
Registered:February 2011
It's a fair point that once can simply change the damage value of grenades, but maybe are more general approach would indeed make sense.

My knowledge of military equipment is more or less based on movies, wikipedia and tell tale, but I would imagine that a grenade like the mk2 exploding at someone's feet would kill him (in JA2 game terms, that is. In RL terms: Injure him in such a way that he can no longer be active as a merc, because he misses a limb or something similar).

Is this assumption incorrect?
- If so, why isn't the default damage caused by grenades increased to bring them on level with (very deadly!) firearms?
- If not, is grenade damage at default settings realistic then?


Or do you rather think that this is a matter of simulation? Has the damage been artificially reduced to account for the fact that (also quite artificially) targets cannot jump for cover because of the turn-based system?

In that case: Would it make sense for some grenades to explode the next turn, and is this moddable? (obviously some grenades detonate on impact, but there are some with a timed fuse, right?)

Also: Would it be possible to make explosives throwable? (like tnt, c4, even charges etc.)
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336145] Thu, 25 September 2014 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
VinnieClaymore

Or do you rather think that this is a matter of simulation? Has the damage been artificially reduced to account for the fact that (also quite artificially) targets cannot jump for cover because of the turn-based system?

I guess this is the case. If the damage was too high you could wipe out a whole group with one grenade. This would lead to massive frustration.

VinnieClaymore

In that case: Would it make sense for some grenades to explode the next turn, and is this moddable? (obviously some grenades detonate on impact, but there are some with a timed fuse, right?)

No, that wouldn't make sense because it wouldn't change anything. If we detonate them at the start of the next turn we still couldn't take cover and if we do it on the end of the turn it is too easy to just run away.

VinnieClaymore

Also: Would it be possible to make explosives throwable? (like tnt, c4, even charges etc.)

As far as I know you can already arm explosives in inventory and throw them afterwards.

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336146] Thu, 25 September 2014 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vincent J. Claymore

 
Messages:270
Registered:February 2011
silversurfer
VinnieClaymore

Or do you rather think that this is a matter of simulation? Has the damage been artificially reduced to account for the fact that (also quite artificially) targets cannot jump for cover because of the turn-based system?

I guess this is the case. If the damage was too high you could wipe out a whole group with one grenade. This would lead to massive frustration.

True, that would be quite frustrating when happening to the player. At the same time, AI probably wouldn't exploit this as much as the playing, making it kind of an exploit.


silversurfer

VinnieClaymore

In that case: Would it make sense for some grenades to explode the next turn, and is this moddable? (obviously some grenades detonate on impact, but there are some with a timed fuse, right?)

No, that wouldn't make sense because it wouldn't change anything. If we detonate them at the start of the next turn we still couldn't take cover and if we do it on the end of the turn it is too easy to just run away.

Would it be possible to give auto-interruptions upon having a grenade tossed at you with the grenade exploding at the beginning of you next turn? So IF you have AP left you can run, if not - tough cookies!


silversurfer
VinnieClaymore

Also: Would it be possible to make explosives throwable? (like tnt, c4, even charges etc.)

As far as I know you can already arm explosives in inventory and throw them afterwards.

I see, I didn't know that. How do you arm them without placing them? Also, isn't range for throwing inventory objects much shorter than for throwing grenades? But I guess this is good enough for a fix.


I guess grenades are also affected by this whole weapon's range vs. movement range issue. If one tile represents 100m
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336147] Thu, 25 September 2014 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1344
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
There are also some balance issues:
For example, sometimes it's hard to (reliably) hit enemy even at 10-15 tiles (if he runs a lot or when using NCTH), so if you make grenades powerful enough there will be no need for small/medium range guns most of the time - make IMP with high str and dex and demolition trait, fill a backpack with small grenades and you have a devastating killing machine =)

Another thing is iron man mode - in 1.13 enemy throws a lot of grenades, so you will not want to lose 3-4 mercs from one grenade thrown by elite enemy.

As for me, I think that (explosive) grenades should fill their role on the field:
- mostly use against someone you cannot hit with gun (behind the obstacle or smth)
- use powerful but heavy grenades (or packs of grenades) against multiple enemies or against tanks at close range

As for giving interrupt for enemy when throwing grenade - I think it was implemented in some mods, maybe ja2'005 or NOps, don't remember exactly.
It is also possible to throw "timed" grenades in NightOps mod, just like in old XCOM game.

In 1.13, it's is easy to make timed grenades by transforming grenades to regular explosives with default fuse attachment, arming and throwing. But the explosives are thrown as regular items and not grenades, so range and CTH will be calculated differently.
Also, the AI doesn't know about item transformations =)

About RL grenade power - small grenades have only 30-50g of explosives, so if you remove the frag case they will be harmless even at very close range like 1-2m, except for some stun effect.
To tear off smb's extremity, you have to put armed grenade directly in his pocket =)


Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336151] Thu, 25 September 2014 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
In addition to that explosive grenades are useful for interrupt suppression. An opponent hit by a grenade loses breath/action points and is less likely to interrupt your mercs.

If the opponent is sent straight to the floor this also serves as good intro for a gas/molotov grenade. He will have a hard time getting up again to leave the cloud. You know that gas grenades work a little different nowadays, do you? Wink

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336160] Fri, 26 September 2014 01:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vincent J. Claymore

 
Messages:270
Registered:February 2011
How were gas grenades changed? I haven't played in a year or so...
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336170] Fri, 26 September 2014 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Look here and here.

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336173] Fri, 26 September 2014 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vincent J. Claymore

 
Messages:270
Registered:February 2011
That sounds powerful. In the end this really means that everyone as one inventory slot less, doesn't it? Because: No gas mask, no life. Smile
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336185] Fri, 26 September 2014 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Yes, gas grenades are powerful. It's not exactly healthy to inhale mustard gas or stand in fire. Wink

One problem that was fixed with the new behaviour is that the victim was punished twice for not wearing a gas mask in the old system (1. damage when grenade was tossed, 2. damage when own turn started). So you could easily die because you had no chance to put on a gas mask. Now you will take damage when your turn starts but you have the option to avoid further damage by putting on a gas mask.

Gas masks don't help against fire so you have to get out of the cloud as quickly as possible. That's why a stun grenade + molotov is so effective... Very Happy

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336187] Fri, 26 September 2014 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vincent J. Claymore

 
Messages:270
Registered:February 2011
True. But that is really just common sense.

What makes me wonder is the fact that movement increases exposure. But I guess it is the best we can do with the current system. Thanks for the good work!
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336247] Sat, 27 September 2014 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sepa
Messages:1
Registered:March 2012
Location: Bristol
Actually I just asked similar questions about grenades being not much useful on IRC - and got to the bottom of the issue thanks to DepressivesBrot suggestion:

In Vanilla grenades do not have the shrapnel set up.
From what I can see, only the VOG-25P grenade and OG-7V rocket got any settings for shrapnel.

So, it looks like these have to be amended to get some destructive power to grenades.

http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa2/

That says MK2 has 40 segments, which could roughly translate to 40 fragments flying out on explosion. No idea though about any other settings there, what to put in to be 'realistic'.

I would welcome any suggestions Smile

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336311] Mon, 29 September 2014 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
That's some interesting information. Indeed the MK2 are fragmentation grenades but don't send any shrapnels flying. I guess that this was an oversight when fragments were implemented.

What we would need is a list of all explosive grenades that emit shrapnel and add some suitable data to them. We can take the VOG-25P for orientation.

If you want to update Explosives.xml you are welcome to do so.

Don't forget tripwire grenades, mortar shells and tank shells.

[Updated on: Mon, 29 September 2014 12:34] by Moderator


Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336313] Mon, 29 September 2014 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3772
Registered:July 2009
All the normal HE grenades we have are frags.


Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336354] Wed, 01 October 2014 01:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
I prepared a little list of explosives that could emit fragments:

Item	Class	Name				Damage	Radius	#	Frag	Frag	Comments
ID	Index							Frags	Damage	Range
134	3	Mini Grenade			15	3	40	5	50	
135	4	Mk2 Defensive Grenade		25	4	20	10	80	40 Fragments
140	9	60mm Mortar Shell		50	6	150	12	100	
141	10	Land Mine			30	2	20	6	40	
147	16	40mm HE Grenade			25	4	150	7	80	300 Fragments
152	21	Tank Shell			60	6	100	14	80	
952	33	20mm HE Clip			20	4	100	5	70	
958	39	25mm HE Clip			22	4	125	6	70	
964	45	40mm HE Cylinder		25	4	150	7	80	
971	52	43mm HE Grenades		32	4				not a fragmentation grenade, increase damage from 27 to 32
976	57	OG-7V Fragmentation Rocket	65	6	200	10	100	Frag Type changed from AET to Ball, Range reduced from 200 to 100
977	58	PG-7MV HEAT Rocket		100	3				not a fragmentation rocket
980	61	VOG-25 40mm Grenade		30	4	100	8	80	
981	62	VOG-25P 40mm Jumping Grenade	30	4	200	8	80	Change radius from 8 to 4
983	64	40mm Metal Storm HE		25	4	150	7	80	
1371	79	43mm HE Grenade			27	4				not a fragmentation grenade
1523	85	Claymore			10	1	70	22	100	
1531	90	Tripwire Mini Grenade		15	3	40	5	50	
1532	91	Tripwire Grenade Mine		25	4	20	10	80	


As you can see not all grenades/rockets are fragmentation types.

About the comments:
  • Where amount of fragments is stated this was information I found in the Internet. Fragmentation grenades that explode on the ground will send half of their fragments in the ground so I halved the number for the XML.
  • Some rockets are for anti-tank use and not fragmentation explosives. This includes the LAW and PG-7MV.
  • The OG-7V has frag type set to "AET". I think that this is a mistake and should be set to "ball" or is there something special about these rockets?
  • The VOG-25P has a way too big blast radius of 8 tiles. I'm going to change that to 4. This grenade is similar to the VOG-25. Only difference is that it explodes above ground and therefore allows to make more effective use of its fragments.
  • The Russian 43mm HE Grenade is not a fragmentation grenade. It has a plastic encasing and is supposed to kill by the blast, not fragments.
The VOG-25P and OG-7V already had values in the XML. All other values have been set using these two as a base.

I think I will be trying these new values and tell you how it goes. I expect grenades to be much more deadly. I also expect that the AI will injure their own comrades because they don't take the fragments into account. Friendly fire I guess... Very Happy

Comments? Some more facts that can help me fill the XML?

edit: Adjusted several values.

[Updated on: Thu, 02 October 2014 11:24] by Moderator


Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336356] Wed, 01 October 2014 04:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Source of these values?
  • It could be considered to drop the raw damage values of fragmenting explosives to weaken them against vehicles.
  • It seems if someone steps onto a mine, he's considered the center of the explosion and "absorbs" all fragments, so using fragments actually weakens mines against multiple targets.
  • Tank value seems very low, isn't it 90mm+ caliber? Also doesn't it rely more on pressure (translating into raw damage) than fragmentation?
  • 43mm HE Grenade raw damage value should go up if the other get fragments.

[Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2014 09:50] by Moderator

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336360] Wed, 01 October 2014 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Strohmann
Source of these values?

For the Mk2 I used the link sepa posted. The Mk2 are rather old and there are modern replacements that emit much more fragments at a smaller radius for better coverage and less danger to own troops.

For the M406 40mm HE grenade I got the info from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M79_grenade_launcher

Unfortunately I couldn't find info about number of fragments for the other explosives.

Strohmann

It could be considered to drop the raw damage values of fragmenting explosives to weaken them against vehicles.

The raw damage comes from the blast of the charge and is already low enough. Also the blast radius is smaller than the radius for the fragments.

Strohmann

It seems if someone steps onto a mine, he's considered the center of the explosion and "absorbs" all fragments, so using fragments actually weakens mines against multiple targets.

When someone steps onto a mine he will certainly lose his foot or more but he will not "absorb all fragments". There are different types of mines. Even blast mines will create "fragments", be it stones from the soil it was buried in or bones and equipment parts from the victim.
The picture of the land mines in Ja2 refers to a blast mine but the description says it's a frag mine. Frag mines are not buried in the soil like in Ja2, they are above ground to be effective (the Claymore is a frag mine btw.).
After some consideration I would say that our "Land Mine" is a blast mine and we should fix the description and maybe add a small number of fragments to simulate the debris flying around.

Strohmann

Tank value seems very low, isn't it 90mm+ caliber? Also doesn't it rely more on pressure (translating into raw damage) than fragmentation?

There are different types of tank grenades. Some of them will not produce any fragments others will produce some. I think that Deidranna's army is using multi purpose grenades because they are fighting soft targets. However I have no idea how many fragments they emit. I chose a medium value because the grenades explode on a surface and therefore a lot of the fragments are already absorbed by whatever is hit by the grenade.

Strohmann

43mm HE Grenade raw damage value should go up if the other get fragments.

A little maybe. The raw damage comes from the charge inside and that is not much bigger than the 40mm grenades. Damage could be upped to 32 to get them in line with the VOG-25.


edit:
Hahaha, the new data leads to funny comments by my team members because some fragments passed them at close range. :rofl:

Fragments do not cause much damage but still it helps to suppress the enemy.

[Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2014 13:18] by Moderator


Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336362] Wed, 01 October 2014 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Strohmann
Source of these values?
Ok, i thought they were taken from some other mod, as you wondered about RPG AET frag type and VOG-25P radius, but these already are in Stock 1.13, so nevermind.

silversurfer
When someone steps onto a mine he will certainly lose his foot or more but he will not "absorb all fragments". There are different types of mines. Even blast mines will create "fragments", be it stones from the soil it was buried in or bones and equipment parts from the victim.
The picture of the land mines in Ja2 refers to a blast mine but the description says it's a frag mine. Frag mines are not buried in the soil like in Ja2, they are above ground to be effective (the Claymore is a frag mine btw.).
After some consideration I would say that our "Land Mine" is a blast mine and we should fix the description and maybe add a small number of fragments to simulate the debris flying around.
I meant how it's realized mechanicalwise in the game. I converted the mine to fragments only and let someone step onto them a few times. Maybe i just was unlucky, but there was no danger to bystanders anymore as the triggering merc takes all the fragments (and dies).
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336366] Wed, 01 October 2014 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Strohmann
I meant how it's realized mechanicalwise in the game. I converted the mine to fragments only and let someone step onto them a few times. Maybe i just was unlucky, but there was no danger to bystanders anymore as the triggering merc takes all the fragments (and dies).

Yeah, I can see that as well if the settings are not right.
Because of that I changed the land mine to be a directional mine with 360

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336389] Thu, 02 October 2014 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
I adjusted the values some more and uploaded the modified Explosives.xml and Items.xml so players can try them. Please do so and give feedback.

edit: Removed the link.

I will add the modifications to SVN once enough people have playtested them.

[Updated on: Fri, 03 October 2014 13:38] by Moderator


Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336433] Fri, 03 October 2014 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Ok, after some more testing and code reading I had to change my approach a bit because the tests produced unexpected and dissatisfying results.

Two problems have shown:

1. Fragment range was calculated incorrectly. It was internally multiplied by 10 which gave fragments an insane range. The fragments of a Claymore mine for example had a range of 100 tiles! That's right across the map! This is fixed in revision 7542.

2. Fragments were spread all over the place, into the air, the ground and some actually made it to a victim (during full moon...). This made fragments of grenades/rockets basically useless.
This is not what I intended so I changed the explosives to be directional. They now use 359

[Updated on: Sat, 04 October 2014 10:53] by Moderator


Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336488] Tue, 07 October 2014 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:293
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I encountered a side effect for fragmentation on mortar shells:

The enemy radio operator ordered an airstrike on my position.
The mortar explosions sent frags all over the place, hitting several of my mercs. Each time one were hit, my radio operator/squadleader lose opinion with them by 10, although he had nothing to do with the mortar strike!
Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336492] Tue, 07 October 2014 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Fragments inherit the owner of the explosive. So if Merc A throws a grenade and Merc B is hit by a fragment, Merc B will be angry with Merc A.

I don't know how Flugente implemented the artillery strikes so I don't know who is the owner of the explosive and if the fragments even are the reason why your mercs are angry. It could also be that they are angry because they have been hit by artillery and you are the one that didn't jam the enemies radio. Razz

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336494] Tue, 07 October 2014 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:293
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Haha, yes, thought about that! Their grudge is not that legitimate, my merc tried to jam the frequencies, but the strike happened anyway Sad

Anyway, as i said, it's a side effect of your fragments implementation, not your "fault". I made a post on the 'dynamic merc opinions' thread to report the issue. The notification here is just a feedback.

By the way, mortar explosions send a lot of fragments and quite far. Your warning was pertinent, you'd better take cover when they hit!
I'll have to test grenades and other explosives more along my campaign, at the moment they seem fine (i tested mini grenades and frag grenades).

[Updated on: Tue, 07 October 2014 22:17] by Moderator

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336495] Tue, 07 October 2014 23:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
No Problem, I'm glad about the feedback. Like I said all values are experimental. If you feel that you would like to adjust them one way or the other it's quite easy. Just use the table I posted earlier to look up the corresponding Class ID in Explosives.xml.

The table contains increased damage values of fragments compared to the original values because I felt they are too low considering that they should still do some damage to armored targets. Bigger explosives do more damage. I wouldn't want to have a merc near mortar, OG-7V or tank shell when it explodes. Wink

If too many fragments hit targets the vertical angle could be increased to spread them out a bit more. This depends on feedback as well.

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #344973 is a reply to message #336354] Sun, 10 April 2016 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:829
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
This chart:

Toggle Spoiler


. . . does not seem to be included within Explosives.xml -- what ever became of your experimentation with fragmentation, and is this chart the end result? Can it be incorporated into Explosives.xml? If so, does the tag <ubFragType> need to be set (at 1?) for all frag grenades?

EDIT: OK, I see . . . these were never included in 7609. Never mind.

[Updated on: Sun, 10 April 2016 19:00]





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Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #344976 is a reply to message #344973] Sun, 10 April 2016 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Explosives have been using the fragments since 2014 when I made the spreadsheet.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #344982 is a reply to message #344976] Sun, 10 April 2016 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:829
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
Quote:
Explosives have been using the fragments since 2014 when I made the spreadsheet.


So . . . what are the empty tags -- <usNumFragments>0</usNumFragments>, <ubFragType>0</ubFragType>, <ubFragDamage>0</ubFragDamage>, <ubFragRange>0</ubFragRange> -- in Explosives.xml for? How do you use them and what do they do?




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Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #344989 is a reply to message #344982] Sun, 10 April 2016 22:00 Go to previous message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2164
Registered:May 2009
Only explosives that do not emit fragments have these tags set to 0 (vacuum or gas grenades for example).



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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