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Trouble with armor choices[message #331895] Thu, 24 April 2014 16:29 Go to next message
AndreiCC

 
Messages:11
Registered:September 2012
I'm having some trouble chosing the armor my squad should wear. I can understand the better protection part well enough but I'm having some trouble deciding how significant the penalties of the more protective armors are.
I've tested with Scope with a sniper rifle and the difference in aiming reticle between no armor and full spectra is not evident to me.
Should I just give everyone the best armor or only for the frontline guys? Anyone have some behind the scenes knowledge of how armor penalties work?
Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332074] Fri, 02 May 2014 03:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3098
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The easy one is the AP penalty. The AP penalty is deducted from the APs you'd normally get without wearing any armour.

The aim penalty is a bit more complicated, as is everything cth-related. Think of it this way: it is deducted from your cth. In the following way... if your base cth to hit sth with a gun is 65%, it is now 61% if you wear a spectra vest (with -4 to aim). That gets adjusted by aiming time, range and other shenanigans, but that's basically it.

Where does that leave us? Well,
  • for helmets, I always go spectra. It is a bit heavier than other helmets, but I like to max protection on the head.
  • for vests, I always go dyneema. It has the best protective abilities along with spectra (EOD isn't a serious option). I deem AP loss more severe than cth loss, as one does not always shoot, but always needs APs - that strikes out zylon and swat for me. And the field uniform has lower penalties, but lacks protection. Plus, dyneema is very light, which is even more of a bonus.
  • I don't wear protective pants. For two reasons. First, there is no good one without severe penalties. But second, lemme tell you a little secret about the cth formula... Wether or not one is hit in the head, torso or legs depends on the height that the bullet hits our character. However, we can't obviously do that while prone, can we? The would have to determine our direction etc.. Which it doesn't. Therefor, all hits you take in prone position always hit the torso. This means that while prone, helmets and pants are useless. As my mercs cling to the ground most of the time, I thus deem the chance to be hit in the legs so low enough that I don't require leg armour. Especially as they all have severe penalties.
  • Ballistic/titanium plates are a lifesaver. Equip all your troops with them, an be sure to replace broken ones.
  • Interesting sidenote: EOD armour and flak vests (yep, the basic flak vest) have increased protection against explosives - their armour is 3 times as effective against explosive damage.


Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332077] Fri, 02 May 2014 05:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Azure_Repeater

 
Messages:152
Registered:March 2014
Location: Philippines
Well said, Flugente. I like your explanation. Additionally, pants are useless, since you usually don't fight on standing position?
Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332079] Fri, 02 May 2014 06:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3098
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Well, pants are useless when you're prone, which my mercs are most of the time.


Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332081] Fri, 02 May 2014 06:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Azure_Repeater

 
Messages:152
Registered:March 2014
Location: Philippines
So, I should probably use camouflaged pants (i.e. Zylon) over the strongest pants (i.e. Dyneema). I mostly fight on crouch position.
Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332087] Fri, 02 May 2014 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:719
Registered:July 2008
Then why not lower penalties on leg armors to make them viable?
Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332092] Fri, 02 May 2014 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndreiCC

 
Messages:11
Registered:September 2012
Flugente, how do the NCTH bonuses/maluses on armor work? EOD vest with ceramic plates for example has
(while crouched) -96% base CTH, -36% aim cap and -96% counter-force accuracy. It's these numbers that are misterious to me.

For my own use I've rebalanced the armors in the xml editor using some rules to try to make more of the armors viable and reduce the IMO overpowerdness of some armors:
pants are -1 ap compared to vest of same tier
compund-18 adds +2 protection but adds -1 ap penalty to vest and legs
queen's jelly adds +4 protection and removes -1ap out of the vest and legs penalty
vest has +2 protection compared to legs and helmet of same tier

Coolness 4:

KEVLAR 25 protection -1 ap, -2 aimed shot on vest
Coolness 5:
ZYLON 25 protection -1 ap, -2 aimed shot on vest but has those nifty camo bonuses
SWAT 26 protection (down from 28) -1 ap, -2 aimed shot but has much better coverage compared to kevlar
GUARDIAN 28 protection but -3 ap, -3 aimed shot with better coverage than kevlar or twaron
Coolness 6:
TWARON 28 protection -2 ap, -3 aimed shot
Coolness 7:
SPECTRA 30 protection -3 ap, -4 aimed shot with best coverage out of everthing except EOD
Coolness 8:
Dyneema 29 protecton -2 ap -2 aimed shot (having -1ap was too good), light, mobile
Coolness 9:
EOD 45 protection on helm/legs, 50 on vest, -6 ap -10 aimed shot on vest and -10 ap on legs

Didn't fiddle with the NCTH bonuses yet cause I don't understand them.
Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332232] Wed, 07 May 2014 01:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3098
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Might alter armours in stock 1.13 once I have time, pretty much like this suggestion, to offer more variety.

For the NCTH explanation thing... bleh. Dig at the code, I have no interest in diving into the huge pile that is NCTh atm.


Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332234] Wed, 07 May 2014 01:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Azure_Repeater

 
Messages:152
Registered:March 2014
Location: Philippines
I don't like EOD armor, due to the heavy weight and huge penalties. :computer2:
Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332336] Fri, 09 May 2014 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndreiCC

 
Messages:11
Registered:September 2012
After playing for a bit with the changes I made I've concluded that Queen's Jelly is way too good compared with Compound-18.
So I'm gonna try to see how game plays with changing Queen's Jelly to only give +3 protection and Compound-18 to give +4.

Edit: Compound-18 changed to cost 3500$.

[Updated on: Fri, 09 May 2014 17:15] by Moderator

Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332338] Fri, 09 May 2014 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3754
Registered:July 2009
Hmmm, stuff readily and infinitely available from various dealers vs. one-off unobtanium straight from Klendathu ... I wonder what should be more powerful.


Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332341] Fri, 09 May 2014 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndreiCC

 
Messages:11
Registered:September 2012
DepressivesBrot, you have a point but I'm thinking that the Jelly is still better. It's got +2 ap bonus over C-18, and makes armor lighter and lessens penalties to hit. All this and it's only 1 point of protection worse than C-18.
Meanwhile C-18 is a presumably space-age compound designed to just give better protection so it should be good at doing that.
Also don't pretend that you don't buy every jar you see at stores and that by the time you go clear the mine you don't have 25+ jars ( basically enough to never use non-coated armor ever again).
Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332342] Fri, 09 May 2014 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3754
Registered:July 2009
I never did the bug quest. If there's other stats that make it better overall, then it makes sense again.


Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332343] Fri, 09 May 2014 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndreiCC

 
Messages:11
Registered:September 2012
You only play in realistic mode, I'm guessing?
Or did you select "fear of insects" at character creation?
Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332354] Fri, 09 May 2014 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3754
Registered:July 2009
I play SF for the prototypes, but those bugs are just horribly out of place in the game.


Re: Trouble with armor choices[message #332366] Sat, 10 May 2014 05:06 Go to previous message
Azure_Repeater

 
Messages:152
Registered:March 2014
Location: Philippines
The reason why I play sci-fi is only for the items, not for the crepitus. Back in the day, I used to play the crepitus quest. The royal jelly is more comfortable than the Compound-18. Though, I stopped playing the crepitus quest these days.
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