Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Coding Talk » Experimental Project 7
Re: Experimental Project 7[message #346962 is a reply to message #346899] Sun, 18 September 2016 22:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Mini update:

Attacks:
- Stab hitrate: take into account path and turning cost
- NumMercsCloseTo: count all teams except creatures when estimating damage from spit
- EstimateShotDamage: take into account breath damage
- fix: uninitialized variable used

Black AI:
- penalize HTH/Melee attack value depending on distance
- limit HTH/Melee attacks if soldier is not specialist and the target is not very close

- fix: walkman only works from head slots
- bonus 20% to morale when using walkman
- if soldier is captured, he cannot see anything
- if soldier is captured, he cannot hear anything

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5f90v70otdqb2e4/ja2_7609en%2BAI_r238.exe?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5rmen3hukth53w/ja2_7609ge%2BAI_r238.exe?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnc2g2z0r99g7ws/ja2_7609ru%2BAI_r238.exe?dl=0



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347020 is a reply to message #346962] Thu, 22 September 2016 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Ja2+AI update:

- fix: correctly calculate enemy threat value when deciding attack (should fix bug with enemy deciding stab attacks too often)
- FindAIUsableObjClass: select weapon with best range and speed for current tactical situation (always try to select weapon that has enough range to closest enemy, then select weapon with best firing speed)
- deafened soldier receives no bonus to morale from walkman
- allow wearing backpack for covert civs/soldiers, use suspicion counter instead
- allow throwing with less CTH if AI soldier has no gun (for example, if AI has only knife and grenade, he has no reason to spare grenade)
- stab attack: take cover into account when deciding which enemy to attack (more correctly decide between shooting and stabbing)
- don't steal weapons from cowering or prone enemy to prevent possible bug
- pick up weapon if soldier has no ammo for his current weapon
- RED AI: pick up ammo for current weapon if soldier has no ammo to reload (for example, if AI soldier picked up a weapon, he will also pick some ammo for it)
- Black watch: only watch if soldier is already looking in the right direction (fix possible bad decision)
- increase chance to shoot at head/legs when shooting at zombie
- SearchForItems: compare deadliness only when current item in hand is a gun (to allow soldier to pick up gun if he already carries launcher or knife)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9i7e6cxda8gkvtd/ja2_7609en%2BAI_r239.exe?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/te46533lv7qwf2s/ja2_7609ge%2BAI_r239.exe?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ohtzvvki9swv7eu/ja2_7609ru%2BAI_r239.exe?dl=0

This update should fix bug with AI deciding to stab too often, also AI will pick up weapons/ammo better, more effectively fight against zombies and better select gun for attack if it has several guns.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 October 2016 21:34]




7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347111 is a reply to message #347020] Sat, 01 October 2016 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Press shift to throw hand grenade as timed grenade - it will explode at the beginning of the next turn. This may be useful in some tactical situations.

Set DELAYED_GRENADE_EXPLOSION = TRUE to make all hand/GL grenades work as timed (disabled by default).

Notes:
- only Normal/Stun/Flashbang grenades can work as timed - gas/flare/other types will always explode immediately
- grenades with fExplodeOnImpact tag set will always explode immediately
- attached explosives feature will not work for timed grenade
- armed grenade can be picked up and disarmed like any other explosive item, but it can be dangerous
- AI soldier will usually try to avoid staying close to armed grenade/bomb, but he still can be hit with fragments

Demo:



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347122 is a reply to message #347111] Sun, 02 October 2016 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3542
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Very nice! This will make grenades tremendously more useful in area-denial role.

I wonder, did you add an extra turn to non-player grenades? Otherwise, after the player throws a grenade, the AI still has its turn and can evade, while we can't do the same when hit with enemy grenades. Best solution would likely be to detonate player grenades at the start of player turn, enemy grenades at start of enemy turn and so on, but that requires twisting the explosion queue.

On another note - if grenades can be picked up, can they be thrown back? If so, you could make grenades non-disarmable and always pick-up-able...

Edit: On yet another note: I'm currently not up-to-date with the trunk status - are you also committing this to the trunk?

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2016 16:33]




I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347123 is a reply to message #347111] Sun, 02 October 2016 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bidius

 
Messages:23
Registered:June 2013
Nvm. Sorry about that, please disregard.

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2016 17:26]

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347126 is a reply to message #347122] Sun, 02 October 2016 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Flugente wrote on Sun, 02 October 2016 18:18
Very nice! This will make grenades tremendously more useful in area-denial role.

I wonder, did you add an extra turn to non-player grenades? Otherwise, after the player throws a grenade, the AI still has its turn and can evade, while we can't do the same when hit with enemy grenades. Best solution would likely be to detonate player grenades at the start of player turn, enemy grenades at start of enemy turn and so on, but that requires twisting the explosion queue.


Adding a turn for non-player grenade is a good idea. As for changing explosion queue - I don't want to even touch that thing as it may probably result is some unwanted bugs in things like multiplayer etc...

This feature is just an expanded version of old "delay explosion for badly damaged grenades" feature, we simply make grenade a timed mine instead of detonating it in HandleArmedObjectImpact() in physics.cpp:
usFlags |= WORLD_ITEM_ARMED_BOMB;

(*pObj)[0]->data.misc.bDetonatorType = BOMB_TIMED;
if( !fGoodStatus )
{
	(*pObj)[0]->data.misc.bDelay = (INT8)( 1 + PreRandom( 2 ) );
}
else
{
	(*pObj)[0]->data.misc.bDelay = 1;
}

(*pObj)[0]->data.misc.usBombItem = pObj->usItem;

(*pObj).fFlags |= OBJECT_ARMED_BOMB;
(*pObj).fFlags |= OBJECT_KNOWN_TO_BE_TRAPPED;

// set high trap level
(*pObj)[0]->data.bTrap = 10;


and then add it to world items:

AddItemToPool( pObject->sGridNo, pObj, VISIBLE, bLevel, usFlags, 0 );

// All teams look for this...
NotifySoldiersToLookforItems( );

if ( pObject->ubOwner != NOBODY && !fGoodStatus )
{
	MercPtrs[ pObject->ubOwner ]->DoMercBattleSound( (INT8)( BATTLE_SOUND_CURSE1 ) );
}


Also, in UseThrown() in Weapons.cpp we check if SHIFT key is pressed and set new item flag that indicates later that this grenade should be delayed:

if( pSoldier->bTeam == gbPlayerNum &&
	_KeyDown(SHIFT) &&
	Item[ usItem ].usItemClass & IC_GRENADE &&
	Item[ usItem ].ubCursor == TOSSCURS )
{
	pSoldier->inv[HANDPOS][0]->data.sObjectFlag |= DELAYED_GRENADE_EXPLOSION;
}


Quote:
On another note - if grenades can be picked up, can they be thrown back? If so, you could make grenades non-disarmable and always pick-up-able...

Picking up armed grenade works the same as disarming a trap, so a skilled demolition expert can do this most of the time, but sometimes it will still explode in his hands. After he has picked it up, it works like a regular grenade and can be thrown in usual way or again as delayed grenade.

Quote:
Edit: On yet another note: I'm currently not up-to-date with the trunk status - are you also committing this to the trunk?

Not yet, as the feature is still in highly experimental state, but it's very simple and can be easily added to the main trunk.
Also this feature could be probably expanded to allow setting more than 1 turn delay, but it will need some interface work (messagebox or number input field similar to what used for cheating items) and a way to store selected time.
Also this feature could be implemented in slightly different way - arm grenade in the hands like explosive and then throw it, but it didn't work in my test without code changes so I decided to go easy way.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347150 is a reply to message #347126] Tue, 04 October 2016 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Update for delayed grenade explosions:

Now it's possible to set grenade mode using transformation menu, also it will cost AP_UNJAM.
http://i.imgur.com/S30AY3M.png

You can see that grenade is in Delayed Explosion mode if it has a grey asterisk:
http://i.imgur.com/Lpsul49.png

Throwing with SHIFT pressed doesn't work anymore.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347154 is a reply to message #347150] Tue, 04 October 2016 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1333
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
Quote:
Now it's possible to set grenade mode using transformation menu, also it will cost AP_UNJAM.


Very nice! Will you be releasing a new EXE soon?






Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347155 is a reply to message #347154] Tue, 04 October 2016 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
edmortimer wrote on Tue, 04 October 2016 21:33
Very nice! Will you be releasing a new EXE soon?

I will, but I want to add some new features and more AI improvements, so it will be more experimental release.
What is done currently:
- allow machinegunners to shoot through walls (they can shoot on targets they cannot see even if there's a wall between)
- added fixes for invisible armies (caused by delayed reinforcements) from main trunk (will need more testing)
- soft iron man mode (can save in realtime)
- delayed grenades
- regen boosters damage only half of previous amount of max health
- item transformation: correctly update interface when item is removed (activate grenade in hands, for example)
- fire damages burnable structures (like grass or wooden furniture - more use for molotov's)

[Updated on: Tue, 04 October 2016 19:46]




7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347156 is a reply to message #347155] Tue, 04 October 2016 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1333
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
That all sounds good! I will rigorously playtest the "- added fixes for invisible armies " as that bug was especially frustrating for me.






Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347160 is a reply to message #347156] Wed, 05 October 2016 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mg979

 
Messages:16
Registered:May 2007
Just a quick question: does 7609+AI include the fixes from 7609+fix? Or are they different things?
Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347164 is a reply to message #347160] Wed, 05 October 2016 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
mg979 wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 05:49
Just a quick question: does 7609+AI include the fixes from 7609+fix? Or are they different things?

Yes.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347167 is a reply to message #347164] Wed, 05 October 2016 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Kill 'em with fire!
http://i.imgur.com/SnE2Zlq.jpg





7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347168 is a reply to message #347167] Wed, 05 October 2016 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Randok

 
Messages:302
Registered:March 2004
Super. In the rain and the storm will probably not work?



Many thanks to all those who make new features for Jagged Alliance 2.

New mod + new map (JA2 map with Drassen, Omerta, Cambria etc, edited or not-it has been repeatedly ) with large sectors + two additional levels + a lot of new tileset + moving vehicles = fun for months, years. Fun with creation, fun playing this mod.
Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347169 is a reply to message #347168] Wed, 05 October 2016 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2744
Registered:May 2009
Pretty nasty way to remove cover... big grin



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347171 is a reply to message #347169] Wed, 05 October 2016 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2733
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Now all we need is a working fire extinguisher as well (which could double as this: )


Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347172 is a reply to message #347171] Wed, 05 October 2016 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mg979

 
Messages:16
Registered:May 2007
I tried ja2+AI on 7609 stable, but I can't see the cursor improvements (except the firing mode icon instead of the X). If I press ALT I see an additional gray circle but no other infos. If I add IMPROVED_NCTH_CURSOR = 2 in the INI, I see no difference. The cursor is always round, never oval if crouched/prone. On an unstable SCI installation I can see all improvements. I tried Omerta landing sector and enemies don't shoot much and come out of cover frequently. All standard settings. Is this normal?

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2016 15:12]

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347173 is a reply to message #347172] Wed, 05 October 2016 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
mg979 wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 17:12
I tried ja2+AI on 7609 stable, but I can't see the cursor improvements (except the firing mode icon instead of the X). If I press ALT I see an additional gray circle but no other infos. If I add IMPROVED_NCTH_CURSOR = 2 in the INI, I see no difference. The cursor is always round, never oval if crouched/prone. On an unstable SCI installation I can see all improvements. I tried Omerta landing sector and enemies don't shoot much and come out of cover frequently. All standard settings. Is this normal?

All NCTH cursor improvements are working, you don't need options to enable them.
Options from old experimental project don't work in Ja2+AI.
The NCTH cursor is always round in Ja2+AI, it's intentional.
About AI - can't say much without a save. In my games, enemy shoots a lot, but this can depend on the mod, settings, weapon progression etc.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347174 is a reply to message #347168] Wed, 05 October 2016 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Randok wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 14:16
Super. In the rain and the storm will probably not work?

Fire spreading is disabled when rain/storm is active.

smeagol
Now all we need is a working fire extinguisher as well (which could double as this:

Currently, stun grenades can be used to remove fire.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347176 is a reply to message #347173] Wed, 05 October 2016 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mg979

 
Messages:16
Registered:May 2007
sevenfm wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 12:22

All NCTH cursor improvements are working, you don't need options to enable them.
Options from old experimental project don't work in Ja2+AI.
The NCTH cursor is always round in Ja2+AI, it's intentional.
About AI - can't say much without a save. In my games, enemy shoots a lot, but this can depend on the mod, settings, weapon progression etc.


Thanks, then there's no way to see eg the aiming expressed as numbers as with compact cursor? No big deal anyway.

I can't see a full changelog anywhere but I saw this in a new game (NCTH):
- ranger gains -1 aiming levels with rifles, hunter does not
- sniper lost aiming level bonus with ARs

Before the changes you made to sniper, in a couple of games I started (AR/UC113) marksman/sniper and gunslinger outclassed all others, thanks to the much better aiming levels reduction. Still I think auto/heavy weapons experts are a bit weak, and shotguns have too many aiming levels for (rather) short range weapons as they are. So I suggest I like the changes but I would like also:

- machinegunner -1 aiming with AR/SMG, -2 with LMG
- auto weapons -1 aiming with LMG
- heavy weapons -1 aiming with HWs (-2 for bombardier)
- adapt to NCTH the general changes to aiming levels you did for OCTH, or at least reduce aiming levels for shotguns (5 atm like rifles, should be 4 imo)

The few shots from enemies maybe depend from some setting, in UC113 there is a different setting for which enemies start to shoot even if out of range with their weapon, that is they don't wait they are in weapon range, I can't find this setting anymore though. Are there special settings (CTH constants and such) that you recommend with your exe (or in general)? Thanks.

Unrelated to all this, another couple of things I noticed in my games with 7609 (normal exe) that maybe could be improved are:
- it's possible to cheat in the IMP design screen to get the stats you want: create an imp with no traits (or traits that won't set a minimum skill), select the skills you want then FINISH, then cancel, then set the right traits, then in the skill selection screen you have the old selected skills, you can click FINISH again and authorize money transfer to get your cheating IMP
- demolitions trait: gives a huge bonus to cth when throwing grenades (would better fit throwing trait imo), and makes it easier to remove traps, but then the remove traps checks against (and improves) mechanical skill, so you have an explosive expert that isn't good at removing traps even if he has demolitions trait. It's a good trait for the grenade cth bonus alone or with a technician/demolitions hybrid (what I actually did) but the skills themselves are misplaced imo. Either make trap removal check against explosives or rework the trait in some other way.
Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347177 is a reply to message #347176] Wed, 05 October 2016 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
@mg979

Unfortunately there's no full changelog, but all important changes are described in this thread.
There are no changes to NCTH aim levels in Ja2+AI, only OCTH max aiming levels were changed for better balance.
There were some fixes from the main trunk but I cannot remember anything that changes NCTH aim levels.

Quote:
adapt to NCTH the general changes to aiming levels you did for OCTH, or at least reduce aiming levels for shotguns (5 atm like rifles, should be 4 imo)

I plan to review NCTH balance including aiming levels some day, but this will probably not happen soon because of other planned features.

Quote:
The few shots from enemies maybe depend from some setting, in UC113 there is a different setting for which enemies start to shoot even if out of range with their weapon, that is they don't wait they are in weapon range, I can't find this setting anymore though. Are there special settings (CTH constants and such) that you recommend with your exe (or in general)? Thanks.

I play with the following NCTH settings:
To allow more AI shooting in early game:
MAX_EFFECTIVE_RANGE_MULTIPLIER = 1.5
MAX_EFFECTIVE_RANGE_REDUCTION = 0.1
MAX_EFFECTIVE_USE_GRADIENT = TRUE


This affects only values used for AI calculation, not real CTH.

Also, my settings for better NCTH balance:
BASE_EXP 	= 1.0
BASE_MARKS 	= 4.0
BASE_WIS 	= 1.0
BASE_DEX 	= 4.0

BASE_STANDING_STANCE = 2.0
BASE_CROUCHING_STANCE = 2.5
BASE_PRONE_STANCE = 3.0

BASE_DIFFICULTY_NOVICE = 0.0
BASE_DIFFICULTY_EXPERIENCED = 0.0
BASE_DIFFICULTY_EXPERT = 0.0
BASE_DIFFICULTY_INSANE = 0.0

AIM_EXP = 1.0
AIM_MARKS = 8.0
AIM_WIS = 2.0
AIM_DEX = 1.0

AIM_DRAW_COST = 0.5
AIM_STANDING_STANCE = 1.5
AIM_CROUCHING_STANCE = 1.0
AIM_PRONE_STANCE = 0.5

AIM_DIFFICULTY_NOVICE = 0.0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_EXPERIENCED = 0.0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_EXPERT = 0.0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_INSANE = 0.0

NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE = 100


Quote:
it's possible to cheat in the IMP design screen to get the stats you want: create an imp with no traits (or traits that won't set a minimum skill), select the skills you want then FINISH, then cancel, then set the right traits, then in the skill selection screen you have the old selected skills, you can click FINISH again and authorize money transfer to get your cheating IMP

If player wants to cheat in 1.13, he can always use unlimited possibilities given by ini files :-)

Quote:
demolitions trait: gives a huge bonus to cth when throwing grenades (would better fit throwing trait imo), and makes it easier to remove traps, but then the remove traps checks against (and improves) mechanical skill, so you have an explosive expert that isn't good at removing traps even if he has demolitions trait. It's a good trait for the grenade cth bonus alone or with a technician/demolitions hybrid (what I actually did) but the skills themselves are misplaced imo. Either make trap removal check against explosives or rework the trait in some other way.

For disarming, explosives skill is most important:
iSkill = EffectiveExplosive( pSoldier ) * 6;
iSkill += EffectiveMechanical( pSoldier );
iSkill += EffectiveDexterity( pSoldier, FALSE ) * 2;
iSkill += EffectiveExpLevel( pSoldier ) * 10;

And also later influenced by backgrounds and other things and penalized by poor wisdom.

I agree that throwing grenades, picking locks and disarming traps should be separated, but currently we have what we have, I try to keep this project as close to stock 1.13 as possible, though there's definitely something to think about.
There were some changes in trait system in unstable releases also as far as I remember.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347179 is a reply to message #347177] Wed, 05 October 2016 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mg979

 
Messages:16
Registered:May 2007
Ok thanks a lot for all those settings, dexterity/marksmanship rebalance for base/aiming cth makes a lot of sense, I wanted to set it in a similar way.

sevenfm wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 14:34
@mg979

Unfortunately there's no full changelog, but all important changes are described in this thread.
There are no changes to NCTH aim levels in Ja2+AI, only OCTH max aiming levels were changed for better balance.
There were some fixes from the main trunk but I cannot remember anything that changes NCTH aim levels.


But in ja2+AI there is something that alters aim levels for ranger and sniper, you can see it in this saved game.

There are 4 mercs (hunter, ranger, sniper, marksman) with 4 weapons (AR, shotgun, sniper rifle, normal rifle).

With ja2+AI, sniper gets a bonus for sniper rifle and rifle, but not AR (in 7609 he gets -2 bonus)
Ranger gets -1 bonus with rifle(he gets no bonus with in 7609), but not with sniper rifle (as in 7609)

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2016 18:13]

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347182 is a reply to message #347179] Wed, 05 October 2016 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
mg979 wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 20:13
But in ja2+AI there is something that alters aim levels for ranger and sniper, you can see it in this saved game.

There are 4 mercs (hunter, ranger, sniper, marksman) with 4 weapons (AR, shotgun, sniper rifle, normal rifle).

With ja2+AI, sniper gets a bonus for sniper rifle and rifle, but not AR (in 7609 he gets -2 bonus)
Ranger gets -1 bonus with rifle(he gets no bonus with in 7609), but not with sniper rifle (as in 7609)

Yes, the aiming levels are different, but I have no idea why this happens - will take a look when I have time.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

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Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347183 is a reply to message #347182] Wed, 05 October 2016 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mg979

 
Messages:16
Registered:May 2007
Even if unintentional, I think it's a good change. I would prefer weapon traits to be more elastic, something like (expressed in aiming level reductions):

http://i.imgur.com/sAUrphv.png

and maybe adjust some base aim levels (bring base for ARs to 5 as for rifles, and increase by 1 for HW, to make them more difficult to handle for non-specialists)

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2016 22:56]

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347184 is a reply to message #347179] Wed, 05 October 2016 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2744
Registered:May 2009
mg979 wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 16:09

- demolitions trait: gives a huge bonus to cth when throwing grenades (would better fit throwing trait imo), and makes it easier to remove traps, but then the remove traps checks against (and improves) mechanical skill, so you have an explosive expert that isn't good at removing traps even if he has demolitions trait. It's a good trait for the grenade cth bonus alone or with a technician/demolitions hybrid (what I actually did) but the skills themselves are misplaced imo. Either make trap removal check against explosives or rework the trait in some other way.

Throwing skill is for throwing knifes. Throwing grenades is a completely different pair of shoes. That's why the bonus is on the demolitions trait.
The demolitions trait gives a bonus to disarming bombs and mines not traps. That's also a big difference. Disarming bombs and mines improves explosives skill not mechanical skill. If you want to disarm (electronic) traps you need a technician. You can combine the two but you don't have to.


mg979 wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 17:13
With ja2+AI, sniper gets a bonus for sniper rifle and rifle, but not AR (in 7609 he gets -2 bonus)
Ranger gets -1 bonus with rifle(he gets no bonus with in 7609), but not with sniper rifle (as in 7609)

Actually those were bugs that were fixed in the dev builds and then Sevenfm ported them like other fixes to the experimental exe.
Sniper was never supposed to get the bonus for more than semi auto rifles.
Rangers are most proficient with shotguns and somewhat with rifles. They aren't snipers but they profit more from scopes than non-sniper mercs.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347185 is a reply to message #347183] Wed, 05 October 2016 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
mg979 wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 23:27
Even if unintentional, I think it's a good change. I would prefer weapon traits to be more elastic, something like (expressed in aiming level reductions):



and maybe adjust some base aim levels (bring base for ARs to 5 as for rifles, and increase by 1 for HW, to make them more difficult to handle for non-specialists)


What we have now, from the code:

Pistol, MP: Gunslinger
Shotgun: Ranger
Rifle: max (Ranger/2, Sniper)
Sniper rifle: Sniper

So, aiming levels for assault rifles, smg's and machineguns are not covered by skills.
I don't plan to change it now, but I think there's something to think about.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

Кто в Москве не бывал, красоты не видал.


Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347186 is a reply to message #347184] Wed, 05 October 2016 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mg979

 
Messages:16
Registered:May 2007
silversurfer wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 18:40

Actually those were bugs that were fixed in the dev builds and then Sevenfm ported them like other fixes to the experimental exe.
Sniper was never supposed to get the bonus for more than semi auto rifles.
Rangers are most proficient with shotguns and somewhat with rifles. They aren't snipers but they profit more from scopes than non-sniper mercs.



Ok then it was intentional in one way or another. I misunderstood the demolition trait, thinking it was meant also for removing traps, I brought this up because my explosive expert wasn't able to disarm them while my technician was, and thought it was a mistake. But if it's by design, it's ok then. Thanks for the explanation.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2016 22:06]

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347191 is a reply to message #347185] Thu, 06 October 2016 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2744
Registered:May 2009
sevenfm wrote on Wed, 05 October 2016 21:05

So, aiming levels for assault rifles, smg's and machineguns are not covered by skills.
I don't plan to change it now, but I think there's something to think about.

Actually auto weapons trait reduces AP to fire for auto weapons. This covers the speed part of aim levels reduction and I think that Sandro didn't give them an aim level bonus on purpose. The aim level bonus would also make them aim better at less time, which was not intended. If we gave the auto weapons guys reduced AP + aim level bonus it would make them totally overpowered. In my opinion they are already very powerful as they are right now.

Originally the ranger didn't have an aim level bonus as well. He was given one because the trait was rather lacking and shotgun users needed some love.

Most used weapons trait is probably auto weapons because ARs and LMGs are so powerful. No need to make them even more powerful with an aim level bonus in my opinion.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347213 is a reply to message #347191] Sat, 08 October 2016 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ArulcoLiberator

Messages:4
Registered:October 2016
Hello!

I don´t know if this is a problem i caused with a wrong installation or if this is a bug? With the german AI+fix_r239 exe the game crashes to desktop when crating an I.M.P. character. This happens at the point, where to decide the mnerc is hunter, squadleader, machinegunner etc. By clicking OK the game crashes. With the english exe theres no problem to create an imp character but the error occurs sporadically.

Cant post any links yet but if the game crashes there ist a white Windows dialog named Error with the text "Unhandled exception. Unable to recover."

Greetings
ArulcoLiberator
Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347214 is a reply to message #347213] Sat, 08 October 2016 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
ArulcoLiberator wrote on Sat, 08 October 2016 13:00
Hello!

I don´t know if this is a problem i caused with a wrong installation or if this is a bug? With the german AI+fix_r239 exe the game crashes to desktop when crating an I.M.P. character. This happens at the point, where to decide the mnerc is hunter, squadleader, machinegunner etc. By clicking OK the game crashes. With the english exe theres no problem to create an imp character but the error occurs sporadically.

Cant post any links yet but if the game crashes there ist a white Windows dialog named Error with the text "Unhandled exception. Unable to recover."

Greetings
ArulcoLiberator


Hi ArulcoLiberator!
The problem is that I don't even have German Ja2 version, so I cannot reproduce or debug it.
I can only set German define in the sources, compile and hope it works.
Other language versions (English, Russian) work fine with IMP createion as far as I know, so it's something related to your installation or some very specific issue in the code.

Have you tried other Gernam ja2 1.13 exe's - official 7609, Ja2+fix project, older Ja2+AI releases?
Is there any additional information - line of code that caused exception, game logs?
You can post links on the forum by removing http prefix as far as I know.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

Кто в Москве не бывал, красоты не видал.


Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347215 is a reply to message #347214] Sat, 08 October 2016 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ArulcoLiberator

Messages:4
Registered:October 2016
I tried to use the germen Ja2+AI exes back to r236. The Error still occurs. So i can't play well with that...

After that I took an English 1.12 Gold version and installed Arulco Vacations 1.07 with patch 2. This comes with latest english Ja2+AI exe r239. I.M.P creation works fine. But then suddenly in battle, the same error occurs.

heres the link: img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/unbenannt0xpgty9ask.jpg

PS:

This is all what the Errorlog says

*** Fri Oct 07 22:52:44 2016 ***
[ VHW02-V1SOK-NICHB-DT472-K3KUJ ]

[7.68001e-006] :

[Updated on: Sat, 08 October 2016 12:27]

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347216 is a reply to message #347215] Sat, 08 October 2016 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
ArulcoLiberator wrote on Sat, 08 October 2016 14:23
I tried to use the germen Ja2+AI exes back to r236. The Error still occurs. So i can't play well with that...

After that I took an English 1.12 Gold version and installed Arulco Vacations 1.07 with patch 2. This comes with latest english Ja2+AI exe r239. I.M.P creation works fine. But then suddenly in battle, the same error occurs.

heres the link: img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/unbenannt0xpgty9ask.jpg


If you can provide a save just before the bug, I will try to reproduce it and see why it happens.
Without a save or detailed description how to reproduce the bug, can't do anything.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

Кто в Москве не бывал, красоты не видал.


Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347217 is a reply to message #347216] Sat, 08 October 2016 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ArulcoLiberator

Messages:4
Registered:October 2016
Okay here is a qicksave i made just before the error occured. Maybe this helps...

filehorst.de/d/buGtwpcp

Sorry its not easy to give hints why the error occurs. The error with the german exe is easy to reproduce. But this happened suddenly in battle. Hard to explain what´s responsible for this...

[Updated on: Sat, 08 October 2016 12:44]

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347220 is a reply to message #347217] Sat, 08 October 2016 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
ArulcoLiberator wrote on Sat, 08 October 2016 14:40
Okay here is a qicksave i made just before the error occured. Maybe this helps...

filehorst.de/d/buGtwpcp

Sorry its not easy to give hints why the error occurs. The error with the german exe is easy to reproduce. But this happened suddenly in battle. Hard to explain what´s responsible for this...

Thank you for the save, tried it several times, but couldn't reproduce the bug.



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

Кто в Москве не бывал, красоты не видал.


Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347223 is a reply to message #347220] Sat, 08 October 2016 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2272
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Ja2+AI progress:
Now you can empty canteen using transformation:
http://i.imgur.com/K6VU9RP.png
Useful if you don't want to carry poisoned water.
Also, mercs will replace bad water in canteens with good when filling.

List of useful transformations in Ja2+AI:
- manually unjam guns (or you can press 'u' for that)
- delay grenade explosion
- empty canteen

Any more ideas, what can be done using item transformations?



7609+AI (r1573) | Unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube | Trunk (r8892) | 1.13 Starter Docs

Кто в Москве не бывал, красоты не видал.


Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347229 is a reply to message #347223] Sat, 08 October 2016 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ArulcoLiberator

Messages:4
Registered:October 2016
Get regeneration or energy booster, rags out of a medical kit. The bloody rags are good for molotovs happy

In combat you can take a regen booster from the kit if you don't have it in inventory.

I havent much coding experience with JA2, but maybe its possible to adjust the item health of the medkit depending on what taken from it.

Same coud be done with a Tool Kit. Then you can take a wire cutter, a crowbar or a locksmith kit from it.

These itens can be found regularly in game but i think it would be an nice feature...

[Updated on: Sun, 09 October 2016 00:02]

Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347230 is a reply to message #347229] Sun, 09 October 2016 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sniki Hor

 
Messages:15
Registered:August 2006
Location: Croatia
How about separating bullets, grenades, explosives into gunpowder and metal, which you can use to create another bullets(calibers that you actually need/use), grenades, explosives.
To make it more realistic this can be limited only to sectors with workshops and that you can make only lower quality products like pipebombs/explosives, homemade mines, lower grade bullets.
Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347231 is a reply to message #347223] Sun, 09 October 2016 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1333
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
Quote:
Any more ideas, what can be done using item transformations?


Retract/extend and fold/unfold retractable and folding stocks.






Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347235 is a reply to message #347184] Sun, 09 October 2016 03:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
silversurfer wrote on Thu, 06 October 2016 05:40

Throwing skill is for throwing knifes. Throwing grenades is a completely different pair of shoes. That's why the bonus is on the demolitions trait.
The demolitions trait gives a bonus to disarming bombs and mines not traps. That's also a big difference. Disarming bombs and mines improves explosives skill not mechanical skill.


Sorry to hijack just a bit, but I had to ask. Has the throwing skill always been related to knives? Or is this just specific to new traits. I always thought Sidney was a good grenade thrower because of his throwing skills which is even reflected in his bio (throwing cricket balls/throwing grenades) and the grenade in his inventory.

If the throwing skill has always been about knifes what other factors make a good grenade thrower? I'd figure explosives/demolitions is a very different type of technical skill than being someone who is really physically gifted at throwing/timing a great grenade lob.


Re: Experimental Project 7[message #347244 is a reply to message #347235] Sun, 09 October 2016 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2744
Registered:May 2009
It's related to new trait system. There the bonuses have been split up.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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