Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Coding Talk » Experimental Project 7
Experimental Project 7[message #332214] Tue, 06 May 2014 18:59 Go to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Old experimental project is outdated and not supported, see new Ja2+AI project here.
Toggle Spoiler

[Updated on: Sat, 03 December 2016 22:09]



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332215] Tue, 06 May 2014 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rummtata

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2011
Location: Germany
Personally, I like the NCTH cursor so much I don't care about its size, but limiting that might indeed improve the whole thing visually. Good thinking.

Sadly, for some reason I cannot enlarge the video or watch it on YouTube, the links don't work. Already tried different browsers. Is it just me? ^^
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332217] Tue, 06 May 2014 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
@rummtata
NCTH is very good, with all recent tweaks and additions Smile
As for youtube link, I have the same problem, something with embedding.
You can always right click on 'YouTube' sign and select 'copy link'.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332221] Tue, 06 May 2014 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Gimme gimme gimme!

Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332222] Tue, 06 May 2014 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Extended mouse commands
http://i.imgur.com/SriGgqj.jpg

ALTERNATE_MOUSE_COMMANDS = TRUE

Now reworked, more logical and supports recently added features.
Excel table

List of possible mouse actions:
[font:Courier New]
MB: Look [l]
Alt+MB: Firing mode [ b]
Ctrl+MB: Scope mode [.]
Shift+MB: Transform object in hand [y]
Ctrl+Alt+MB: Reload weapon

WheelUp/WheelDown - nothing
This was changed to prevent accidental unwanted merc switching
Alt+WheelUp, Alt+WheelDown [PGUP, PGDN]
This was reversed comparing to old mouse actions feature.
It seems more logical to scroll UP to stand UP, and scroll DOWN to sit DOWN.

Shift+WheelUp, Shift+WheelDown: Select visible enemies [e]
Ctrl+WheelUp, Ctrl+WheelDown: Change active merc [space]
Ctrl+Alt+WheelUp: Pickup backpacks [Ctrl+Shift+f]
Ctrl+Alt+Down: Drop backpacks [Shift+b]

X1: Show line of sight [Shift+V]
Alt+X1: Swap sling [Shift+k, Alt+q]
Ctrl+X1: Swap hands [Shift+h, Ctrl+q]
Shift+X1: Select All [=]
Ctrl+Alt+X1: Show player mines [Alt+Shift+v]

X2: Show cover [Shift+c]
Alt+X2: Toggle formation movement [Strl+Shift+g]
Ctrl+X2: Jump [j]
Shift+X2: Jump through window [Shift+j]
Ctrl+Alt+X2: Show metal detector view [Alt+Shift+c]
[/font]

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2015 18:34]



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332250] Wed, 07 May 2014 08:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Improved shot distribution inside the aperture
http://i.imgur.com/U2fLitB.jpg

EDIT: feature reworked.

IMPROVED_NCTH_APERTURE
This option changes shot distribution inside the aperture.

1. If you are firing at less than max weapon range, default (flat) distribution is used.
If you fire at target beyond the weapon range, sqrt (more wide, less likely to hit) aperture is used.
This simulates the bullet loosing ballistic stability after certain (effective) range.
NOTE: if your aim is good enough (small green circle) you will still hit as always, at any distance.

2. Vertical distribution factor is limited to 0.5
This will make ground hits less frequent.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2015 18:34]



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332254] Wed, 07 May 2014 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Could we perhaps get simulated sights for the visuals? Iron sight and/or scope(s). Reticule (sight) swaying about to show how tricky a shot will be. Just a thought. :whoknows:

Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332255] Wed, 07 May 2014 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
@Slax I think maximum I can make is implement different cursors for ironsights/reflex/optics.
And making them looking good and fit to general style is another big problem =)
Also I think of adding small optional indicators telling you why your aiming aperture is so big or so small - for example, because the target is moving too fast, or your red dot doesn't work, or you are wounded and tired and your hands are shaking...


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332257] Wed, 07 May 2014 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Disable potentially annoying 'bad chance to hit' quote.
http://i.imgur.com/LJ8id40.jpg

DISABLE_BADCTH_QUOTE

With NCTH, you can shoot beyond the weapon's range and hit, but the quote is still played as if you can't shoot there.
Unfortunately, I cannot find and fix the problem, but I can disable the quote Cool

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2015 18:34]



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332261] Wed, 07 May 2014 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rummtata

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2011
Location: Germany
Would it be possible to add an indicator for "target is behind hard cover"?

I'm asking because even after playing this game for so many years, due to the graphics, it's sometimes still hard to tell if trees etc. are blocking your shooter's LOS or not.

It can *look* like you have a clear shot but be blocked, and also the other way around. CTH can give you a hint, but it's far from reliable. I guess I'm thinking about the XCOM remake here? Don't hit me Wink
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332271] Wed, 07 May 2014 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
http://i.imgur.com/yICFrGY.jpg
There is no 'cover system' in JA2 1.13 like in xcom or other games.
When the bullet is fired, it is checked for collisions with jsd structures and it has some random chance to get through or hit structure.
Currently, the only way to tell the 'cover' value is using 'calculate approximate cover and show' feature - press del for that.
You can also use SHOW_COVER_INDICATOR feature, it will show your current cover value using color of the merc's name:
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Show current merc's cover using color - GREEN, YELLOW, ORANGE and RED
; 0 - do not show cover
; 1 - show using color of merc's name
; 2 - same as 1, show only in stealth or when disguised
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Having some kind of additional 'cover system' seems to be good idea.
How I see it (raw idea):
Cover works only when an obstacle is directly in front of the merc (similar to that 'mounted gun' feature).
Cover works only when you see the enemy who is shooting at you.
So when someone shoots at you and you are behind the 'cover', you have additional chance that the bullet that passed through the cover and tries to hit you will hit the cover instead (simulated hit). It can then has a usual chance to get through cover and hit you again, but it's another story.
So, you have some kind of 'additional simulated cover', when you see enemy.
It should work only for first bullet that was fired from face direction, if you are fired at multiple times, you have much less chance to avoid next bullets (but they can naturally hit mentioned jsd structure, as always).
This feature should take into account how dense is the object in front of you (I think that Anv's extended tile properties can help with that), and how big your merc is, how he is agile (it is active cover, after all - you need to hide), and it can consume some APs.

So I think that such optional system could add more tactical options for gameplay. Maybe some more qualified coders will be interested in implementing it in the future. (looks in general direction of Flugente and Anv). :compcuppa:

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2015 18:34]



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332273] Wed, 07 May 2014 19:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rummtata

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2011
Location: Germany
Hmm, thank you for explaining that. I also like your ideas, but I remain a little confused about the different meanings of the term "cover" here. I think it can mean three things:

A) "Physical" cover which actually stops ranged attacks (more or less, there might be "soft" and "hard" physical cover), e.g. rocks, walls, tree trunks. Already in the game as you've described. Physical cover is always directional and vulnerable to flanking.

B) "Visual" cover which serves to keep someone hidden from sight, but is rather useless against random hits, AOE attacks or if your position is known even though you're still "invisible", compare "stealth". Visual cover can be directional (e.g. a curtain), but the system that is implemented in 1.13, which can be displayed in colours, is pureley non-directional, e.g. high grass, correct?

C) A third meaning would concern something like what you describe; cover which works through actively using it, or which effectiveness depends on using it, yes? Sounds advanced. There could even be traits influencing the ability to utilize cover, but I imagine that could have a dramatic effect on balance.

What I was aiming at originally was merely the fact that while your mercs are (sometimes) able to tell you if a shot is "impossible", there are situations when a shot is just as unlikely, but you get no feedback at all, even though from your merc's perspective, it should be pretty obvious how difficult a succesful hit is going to be.
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332274] Wed, 07 May 2014 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
a) Physical is implemented since vanilla (though it sometimes work a bit unpredictable)
b) Visual is implemented in 1.13 [Tactical Cover System Settings]
c) Yes 'active cover' is the system that I think of. It can use existing physical cover but in active way, using APs and with some restrictions.

It's not obvious in JA2 to tell exactly if the shot will succeed, especially with NCTH. So you can generally guess the probability by your aperture, what your merc is saying and the 'merc vision visualisation' with [end] key.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332277] Wed, 07 May 2014 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Kudos on the side images. Very Happy

Wish I had more to say but I'm too busy drooling. All of this just sounds fantastic and very much welcome.

Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332300] Thu, 08 May 2014 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
1. Improved NCTH cursor
http://i.imgur.com/ReUMGEB.png
Some players dislike the NCTH cursor because of it's huge size.
Though it is absolutely correct mathmatically, the visual game design and good playing feeling is another thing.
So, the maximum size of the cursor was limited, as you can see in this video:
(if current aperture exceeds maximum size, the color becomes slightly darker)

[url]&feature=youtu.be[/url][/video]
[url=&feature=youtu.be]Youtube Link[/url]

2. IMPROVED_NCTH_CURSOR option also changes color of 'AP' label according to action points remaining after your planned shot:
- yellow: you can make 2 shots with current aim
- orange - you can make one shot with current aim, but you will have MIN_APS_TO_INTERRUPT after that, so you will be able to interrupt somebody or take cover.
- red: no interrupts, no taking cover

This is of course approximate, as there are a lot of factors that influence shooting.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2015 18:35]



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332304] Thu, 08 May 2014 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Micro improvement: Laser Dot
http://i.imgur.com/rpsnzZy.png

Set IMPROVED_NCTH_CURSOR = 1, and you will see small red laser dot on your target.
The brightness of the dot depends on the laser effectiveness (distance and daylight brightness).
It's relative so it only shows how good you see the dot, but not the added CTH bonus.

Also fixed minor bug with NCTH cursor placement relative to mouse cursor (1 pixel offset for each x and y)

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2015 18:35]



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332305] Thu, 08 May 2014 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rummtata

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2011
Location: Germany
An elegant solution. Thumbs up!
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332317] Fri, 09 May 2014 02:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yoshi

 
Messages:45
Registered:January 2008
Location: Portugal
Stable 2014? What revision is it based on? Do stable revisions from the 113 team have different numbering from the unstable ones? I'm asking this because of all the yummy features that have been implemented in the latest few unstables Razz
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332318] Fri, 09 May 2014 02:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
@Yoshi
stable2014 is the unofficial name of the yet-to-be-released somewhere in this year new stable version.
More information here:
New Stable Release 2014
It was closed some time ago for new features, so no moving vehicles and such.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332319] Fri, 09 May 2014 03:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Aw, no latest and greatest build? Pretty please? No need to update it all the time.

Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332329] Fri, 09 May 2014 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yoshi

 
Messages:45
Registered:January 2008
Location: Portugal
I'm really enjoying how shooting feels with this. Great job!
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332345] Fri, 09 May 2014 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Autofire, Aimclicks and Scope mode Icons

IMPROVED_NCTH_CURSOR

http://i.imgur.com/8vD8b0j.png http://i.imgur.com/zcmMEy1.png http://i.imgur.com/FpAtHNb.png http://i.imgur.com/2rJjc00.png http://i.imgur.com/SzQdCzt.png http://i.imgur.com/kjLASL0.png

1. Shown autofire bullets are limited to 5
[+] sign means full autofire - full APs or full magazine.
You need only few rightclicks to go full auto, even without mousewheel.

2. Aimclicks are shown as numbers
Yellow - full aim.
Grey - no aim is possible.

3. Current scope mode is displayed instead of [x]

4. If your gun is mounted you will see small red horizontal line below the crosshair


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332346] Fri, 09 May 2014 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:719
Registered:July 2008
I guess there are no brakes on the coding train. I think this is unavoidable so i'm gonna enjoy this.
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332347] Fri, 09 May 2014 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rummtata

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2011
Location: Germany
What a tremendous amount of feedback. I even think it's still comfortable to read. You really know how to make us detail-obsessed complexity-whores happy :party:
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332348] Fri, 09 May 2014 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Some of us still enjoy 2085...


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332349] Fri, 09 May 2014 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yoshi

 
Messages:45
Registered:January 2008
Location: Portugal
Seven, are the features is your last post in the executable already?

[Updated on: Fri, 09 May 2014 20:07] by Moderator

Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332351] Fri, 09 May 2014 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anv

 
Messages:232
Registered:March 2013
Is there really anything heretic enough to stop those improvements from getting into trunk? Looks like all of it is fully configurable anyway.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332352] Fri, 09 May 2014 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Yoshi
Just reuploaded exe and SCI.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332353] Fri, 09 May 2014 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
@anv at least they should be tested and balanced good enough to not bother RoWa anymore with too much patches Smile

Also, some of them really go against the original NCTH concept introduced by it's creator, Headrock.

My idea of improving NCTH experience has come from some discussions (mostly on russian forum) where people were disappointed with how it works.
Usually players dislike huge cursor, the inability to hit comparable to old CTH, and too much extremely lucky shots.
This project hopefully solves most of these inconvenences.
Also I use custom .ini files that restore shooting feeling closer to original JA2 system.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332371] Sat, 10 May 2014 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2156
Registered:May 2009
I really like the visual improvements and would like to see them in the trunk. Can't say anything about functionality because I didn't test it yet.

Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332372] Sat, 10 May 2014 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
All the things you wanna know in one handy dandy spot. Indeed, I can't see why this shouldn't be in the main trunk.
Also, who doesn't use custom ini files these days? Very Happy

Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332373] Sat, 10 May 2014 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Will make a patch with Improved NCTH cursor for main dev branch after more testing and some code cleanup.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332375] Sat, 10 May 2014 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rummtata

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2011
Location: Germany
Yes, please please! :yaysupplz:
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332390] Sat, 10 May 2014 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Sevenfm
Autofire, Aimclicks and Scope mode Icons

IMPROVED_NCTH_CURSOR = 2

http://i.imgur.com/8vD8b0j.png http://i.imgur.com/zcmMEy1.png

1. Shown autofire bullets are limited to 5
[+] sign means full autofire - full APs or full magazine.
You need only few rightclicks to go full auto, even without mousewheel.



Why not simply write BURST and AUTO(or FULL)? After you have SINGLE in the other picts. Btw, the number in the respective pics or the bullets are illustrative of how big the burst is? As far as I know that's a variable.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332392] Sat, 10 May 2014 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
About single/burst/autofire:

1. I didn't change anything about single or burst, so it's default behaviour.

2. If I simply write 'burst', you will not know if it's 2-burst or 3-burst, and in Aimnas guns can have even 4-burst.

3. The only thing changed in autofire mode is the maximum number of displayed autofire bullets.
Previously it was 15 - three groups of 5 bullets each and [+] sign if that's not enough.
Now there's only one group of 5 bullets.
Reasons:
- more compact indicator
- convenience: how often do you decide between 13 and 14 bullets in your games?
Usually, at least from my experience, my mercs fire short bursts (max 3-5) or go full auto for suppression or in critical situation.
- now, if you don't have or dont' use mouse, you can go full auto (fire full magazine/full APs) in several clicks (2-3 usually), instead of clickng 15 times.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332393] Sat, 10 May 2014 18:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Not sure which one is better :whoknows:
http://i.imgur.com/5qXTc2o.png

For no aim:
http://i.imgur.com/ypgl0OU.png http://i.imgur.com/PdrbkVR.png http://i.imgur.com/PafuBh8.png

For normal aim:
http://i.imgur.com/nPITibJ.png http://i.imgur.com/DNMTBdQ.png http://i.imgur.com/4ihSlXU.png

Update:
Think the best color for aimclicks is LTGRAY
No aimclicks possible will be just -/- with the same color
Full aim - yellow
http://i.imgur.com/D7cQlVX.png

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2015 18:35]



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332394] Sat, 10 May 2014 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rummtata

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2011
Location: Germany
Hmm. I think for no aim I like the first a little more than the other two, because it's rather unique. For normal aim, No. #2. But the differences are subtle, it's hard to pick one Wink
Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332399] Sat, 10 May 2014 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
I'd go with basic + cross without circle for no aim, honestly.


Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332400] Sat, 10 May 2014 23:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Final version of Improved NCTH cursor

[Tactical Interface Settings]
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Visual improvements for NCTH cursor:
; 0 - default cursor
; 1 - improved cursor: laser dot, scope mode icon, show extended AP info, limit maximum shown aperture size (optional)
; 2 - compact cursor:  mounted indicator, aiming levels as numbers
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPROVED_NCTH_CURSOR = 0


Features included: Improved NCTH cursor

EDIT: in the trunk now

[Updated on: Tue, 20 May 2014 22:18] by Moderator



Re: Some Experimental Visual Enhancements, Niggling Features & Modifications[message #332438] Sun, 11 May 2014 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1328
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Additional hotkeys (micro improvement)
http://i.imgur.com/LMSykeT.png

Sometimes using [p] key for Prone is not convenient.
Now you can also press [x] to go prone.
E[color:#990000]x[/color]change places functionality is not affected.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2015 18:35]



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