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JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336906] Tue, 21 October 2014 20:07 Go to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Well folks, Jagged Alliance Flashback has just been released today on Steam in version 1.0.

Here are the developer notes

Quote:
Dear Backers,
We

☆★GL★☆
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336912] Tue, 21 October 2014 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nasenbaer

 
Messages:36
Registered:July 2013
Location: Germany
I am totally with you Mauser - in every point. A promising thing, but still a lot of features missing.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336936] Tue, 21 October 2014 23:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethica

 
Messages:40
Registered:September 2009
This is a good start. Looking forward to future developments.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336942] Wed, 22 October 2014 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaethWalker

 
Messages:101
Registered:September 2003
Location: Rocky Point, NC
I went ahead and bought it today, took the small island and that's it so far. First impressions? It's a ruff problem child ... but, I like it. Smile
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336946] Wed, 22 October 2014 00:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xenophon

 
Messages:74
Registered:March 2003
Location: Glos UK
Can't wait to give it a whirl. It's what has just brought me back to the Bearpit for a look around. :coffee:

[Updated on: Wed, 22 October 2014 00:50] by Moderator

Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336955] Wed, 22 October 2014 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
It's shaky here and there but when you're in that hour long battle hanging by the seat of your pants... you forget all problems.

And... don't forget to pay us a visit:

Toggle Spoiler

[Updated on: Wed, 22 October 2014 01:55] by Moderator



Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336981] Wed, 22 October 2014 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
Cant help but think that releasing what basically is a beta that isn't even feature complete wont do them any favors as far as PR and sales go.

Pretty sure this will be a terrible seller, at least with Space Hulk you had the GW IP to milk. And not surprising the game is no where to be found within Steams top seller list
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336993] Wed, 22 October 2014 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Vortexdr
Cant help but think that releasing what basically is a beta that isn't even feature complete wont do them any favors as far as PR and sales go.

Pretty sure this will be a terrible seller, at least with Space Hulk you had the GW IP to milk. And not surprising the game is no where to be found within Steams top seller list


Yea, well, water under the bridge. They ran out of money. Like every other JA dev that tackled this monster game. It's the curse of JA. Lures devs in, they think it's an easy game to make than when they break it down they find out it's made of a billion tiny little parts that take ages to make properly.

And by the time they are halfway up the list, the money run out.

Imho, you need to be able to fund a studio of at least 20 people for at least 24 months to be even close to the goal of making a JA game. That's at least 50-60k for salaries and another 10k for extras... let's make it a round number and say 100k/month. So 1.2M/year. Budget for the final game? 2.4M euros minimum. And when you're done and the game is a perfect gem, you might run into the problem Bioware has:

Quote:
That said, BioWare stands in a tough position. Their highest rated game, Mass Effect 2, got a metacritic score of 96 which is almost impossibly high. That game barely cracked 2 million copies sold. Compare this to the XBOX-only sales of Fallout 3 (3.5 million), Oblivion (3.5 mil), Fable 2 (4 mil), Red Dead Redemption (4.2 mil), Assassin's Creed (5 mil), forget BLOPS (12 mil). Dragon Age sold roughly the same as Mass 2, and both games cost and took about the same amount of time to produce as anything else on this list. So you have to wonder, why are BioWare game selling so much less with such higher quality?


Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336996] Wed, 22 October 2014 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boge

 
Messages:55
Registered:July 2012
What are the chances of this game being modded into something special?
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #336999] Wed, 22 October 2014 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Boge
What are the chances of this game being modded into something special?


Depends how much the devs are willing to unlock for modding. Atm is possible to reuse the map assets and to replace all sectors BUT... the UI is locked and not moddable, so you can't edit the Strategic map. Remaking Arulco? Not yet.
Also weapon performance is completely editable through JSON files and weapon icons are very easy to alter as they're external PNG files. BUT... you cannot add new weapons yet, just edit the existing ones.
Same goes for mercs and misc items.

They begun opening up the game for modding, then halfway they stopped, realized they took a lot of time and money are running out and wrapped up the game in full panic mode. And every plan went down the drain. Nevermind the fact that they had looong time offs due to heat waves and then more time offs due to Gamespot and other PR events. Bad time management, small team, trying to do too much in too short of time with too little funds.

Not like FC story is unique in gaming world. Most game design studios are a disorganized mess.

So what are the chances of JA:F making a spectacular recovery and becoming a great JA game and a fully moddable project? 50/50 atm. Anything could tip the balance in either direction. Bad sales will discourage FC from putting more time in the game. Lack of core features, polish and immersion will sink the game further in reviews and user feedback. And generate less sales.

On the other hand, quick emergency work (attachments, JA2 like cutscenes for immersion, revised UI) save the game and put it on right track.

The ball is in the air. We'll see.

[Updated on: Wed, 22 October 2014 22:20] by Moderator



Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337020] Thu, 23 October 2014 01:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Shanga
Depends how much the devs are willing to unlock for modding.


Well, they better unlock FECKING EVERYTHING for modding, as this was a central promise to the crowdfunding campaign from the very beginning!

Actually, the fact that the game isn't completely moddable from the very start upon release could be seen as a broken promise already!

The whole thing should have been developed with maximum moddability from the very start, complete with the appropriate tools. And i sincerely hope that FC will do absolutely EVERYTHINg in their power to pull through with that and provide this community what it needs, or someone will have to go out there and pay a mercenary outfit to make FC pay their dues!

I wonder if the funds for that could be raised by Kickstarter?

I also hope, that FC will use the money from their next Space Hulk game to further work on JA:F, until it is somewhat feature complete on a vanilla JA2 level the very least!
Or maybe they really could do another crowdfunding run for improving JA:F, especially the content (vioceacting etc.). At least they now have something playable to show for, which they should have had from the very start.

Quote:
Bad sales will discourage FC from putting more time in the game. Lack of core features, polish and immersion will sink the game further in reviews and user feedback. And generate less sales.


For which FC will have nobody to blame than themselves ultimately. And for which they should expect little understanding or sympathy even from us. And god knows i try to be fair to them!

Quote:
On the other hand, quick emergency work (attachments, JA2 like cutscenes for immersion, revised UI) save the game and put it on right track.


You know, the Witcher games also got a free content update (enhanced edition) many months from the initial release, which greatly improved the (quite flawed release version) game on many, many levels. I think, JA:F deserves something similar. A very dedicated post release support, which proves the sense of duty and love of the devs for their product and the fanbase.

Because if Full Control fails at that and JA:F flops miserably because of that, i doubt FC will have much of a future as a studio. So it is in all their best interest to provide and secure their jobs!

☆★GL★☆
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337034] Thu, 23 October 2014 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
During the last summer FC had miserable time management. Worked slowed down considerably for summer months. Then they realized they ran out of time. So yes... it's their own fault.

It was all going fine with modding and development until that time. That proves they have the know-how to open up the game. We'll see. In the meantime keep watching Top Sellers chart on Steam. The game doesn't look like it's doing too bad.

This is the full Strategy top sellers list.



This is the same list, after you eliminate irrelevant shit (Farming) and 2013 games or older games. If in the next weeks the game drops further down the list, it's a bust. So far it's number 6, after some good games.

http://i.imgur.com/ieEJXAm.jpg

[Updated on: Thu, 11 December 2014 00:54] by Moderator



Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337068] Thu, 23 October 2014 23:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
amoult

 
Messages:15
Registered:February 2003
Mauser

Well, they better unlock FECKING EVERYTHING for modding, as this was a central promise to the crowdfunding campaign from the very beginning!

Actually, the fact that the game isn't completely moddable from the very start upon release could be seen as a broken promise already!


Really? Somehow I remember this differently and went back to look at the original kickstarter pitch

"modding - the game engine we are using is different than the engine used in Jagged Alliance 2. This gives new possibilities as well as cuts away others from earlier days. Given the final budget size, we want to include editors and modding as possible. But we can at this point not give any guarantees for modding feature X or asset Y."

"Will there be mod support?
Support for modding is important for a Jagged Alliance title. Depending on the final budget we will work on opening up for things like a map editor and dialog editor."

Map editor is there if I understood correctly and not much else was promised?

Impression after playing two of the maps; game plays sluggishly, bugs here and there.. I like how the game looks like, I can live with the new interrupt system and music is nice (not brilliant like in JA2).

I see potential in this, if they could use 12-18 months development time in it.

Still, it shows clearly that this was rushed out as unfinished..

So, shit reviews -> shit sales -> no more major development. I expect they'll polish the game with bug fixes and some minor features e.g. different ammo types some weapon attachments maybe and that's it

Don't regret backing the game. Pretty much in line what I expected (yet, I secretly hoped that "this time is different")

Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337075] Fri, 24 October 2014 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
amoult

"Will there be mod support?
Support for modding is important for a Jagged Alliance title. Depending on the final budget we will work on opening up for things like a map editor and dialog editor."

Map editor is there if I understood correctly and not much else was promised?


Funny how that turned out eh? About 50-75% of the inner game stuff is externalized now in JSON files:
weapons

  • armor
  • mercs
  • NPCs
  • enemy
  • stories
  • dialogues
  • quests
  • perks
  • camera & other settings
  • bonuses and penalties
  • loot chances
  • enemey load-outs
  • shop inventories
  • IMP creation
  • trash items
  • strategic map
  • sector map

With a free map editor added (cause KS never reached the goal for it) and from my talks with the devs 3d models are next in line. And maybe with enough diplomacy, the fugly UI thing. And maybe one day even the AI scripting, which anyway is pretty high level stuff.

Guess they kinda fucked up on the modding promise, they never kept their word. Lol.

Btw, Thomas and Roman will be my guests on the special Twich post-launch stream. Most likely will happen next weekend. If you have questions to ask, make sure you show up and ask them live.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2014 00:30] by Moderator



Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337076] Fri, 24 October 2014 02:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
FC didn't promise that much about modding in the KS campaign, but many voices pushed them, Shanga first in line, to put an incentive on it.
As a result, we have several externalisations, but some problems made them take back externalised assets, the Unity engine brings some limitations too, and finally, FC has a technology they can't fully open to the community.
We should be able to mod this game in some (good) extent in the future, better than most other games around.

Shanga

Btw, Thomas and Roman will be my guests on the special Twich post-launch stream. Most likely will happen next weekend. If you have questions to ask, make sure you show up and ask them live.

Very nice ! Some discussions could be interesting for both the players and the devs if they come.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337079] Fri, 24 October 2014 05:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
amoult

Really? Somehow I remember this differently and went back to look at the original kickstarter pitch

"modding - the game engine we are using is different than the engine used in Jagged Alliance 2. This gives new possibilities as well as cuts away others from earlier days. Given the final budget size, we want to include editors and modding as possible. But we can at this point not give any guarantees for modding feature X or asset Y."

"Will there be mod support?
Support for modding is important for a Jagged Alliance title. Depending on the final budget we will work on opening up for things like a map editor and dialog editor."


OK, allright, maybe i didn't remember it correctly, so i take back my accusation of broken promises from FC.

Still, full modding support was THE central demand of this fine community, so we could do here what FC isn't able to due to budget and time constraints.

Too bad really, that the crowdfunding campaign didn't reach the full modding tools milestone.

Quote:
Don't regret backing the game. Pretty much in line what I expected (yet, I secretly hoped that "this time is different")


Same here. It was still money well invested. My hopes were higher too, although my realist sense told me to not expect wonders for such a small budget, especially after what i had seen with Space Hulk.

Shanga
Btw, Thomas and Roman will be my guests on the special Twich post-launch stream. Most likely will happen next weekend. If you have questions to ask, make sure you show up and ask them live.


Sounds like good fun. Will attend.

☆★GL★☆
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337080] Fri, 24 October 2014 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sooner

 
Messages:35
Registered:January 2004
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Anyone with a hell of lot more C# skills than I have could do some poking around in the DLL files. Some of it makes a little sense to me but most of it I can't make heads or tails out of. I know they did some DLL injection with the JA:BIA mods. Just a thought.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337104] Fri, 24 October 2014 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
amoult

 
Messages:15
Registered:February 2003
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/jagged-alliance-flashback let's see when the scores start to come in. I'm afraid this is going to get slammed hard.

I wonder if they really did not see that the game is not good enough at current state (for the general public, I don't mind waiting and I already voted with my wallet) and opt for more development with their own funds (and their own risk) or look for more external money..

..or are studio's finances so bad that they were forced to put it out now to get some money flowing or go tits up. ..I remember Lund mentioning couple of times that salaries and bills need to be paid. So maybe FC is in a tight spot right now Sad

Disclaimer: this is only my speculation, I have no knowledge of their finances

[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2014 15:23] by Moderator

Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337109] Fri, 24 October 2014 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Well I just posted mine. And I think I highlighted exactly why I invested in JAF and why I don't regret even one cent. I encourage all if you do write a review and do let trolls nail this game into the ground.


Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337113] Fri, 24 October 2014 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
batanen

 
Messages:24
Registered:May 2013
Sooner
Anyone with a hell of lot more C# skills than I have could do some poking around in the DLL files. Some of it makes a little sense to me but most of it I can't make heads or tails out of. I know they did some DLL injection with the JA:BIA mods. Just a thought.

Getting the source code with Reflector (or any equivalent tool) from Assembly-CSharp.dll doesn't make the project compilable. It would require lots of manual work writing that IL code to C#. Using Reflector+Reflexil in the middle would be an alternative approach as you're suggesting. As the topic was interesting with Reflexil it was possible to change a hard coded line of text to other. However, I think poking with dll's broke the compatibility with level editor or something. In the end, modifications with Reflector+Reflexil would require a lot of work too as it's a low-level programming language. So probably not reasonable doable.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337126] Sat, 25 October 2014 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:334
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
actually there are some wasteland mods that modify the assembly-csharp.dll so it seems to be possible...
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337137] Sat, 25 October 2014 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arulcish_Lion

 
Messages:263
Registered:January 2013
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
@Shanga Good day to all the Bears.

I've played the Flashback and I like it. I think it's pretty nice game now, but it may be much better in the future. I was expecting something like what we have now, so I'm not disappointed by the game. I think it's a great result for FC.

Unfortunately our Russian JA community is not very satisfied with the game. The majority of our members also do not like English, so I'm one of the men who have to make communication between the Russian community and all other people. (Again, like it was during kickstarter program)

So, we have a lot of haters and people, who cries about real time and all drop, but we have adequate wishes too. I promised to guys that I'll translate their ideas to English and show to FC. I'd be happy if you will recommend me where to post them, cause I see that you know the situation better then me.

Of cause, the wishlist will be cleaned from swearings and death wishes to FC.

Lion

☆★GL★☆
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337142] Sat, 25 October 2014 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Thank you for posting here and sharing the feelings of the russian community. It's nice to have a liaison.
You can find the forum of Jagged alliance flashback here, where you can give your feedback to the developpers and discuss the russian players point of view.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337144] Sat, 25 October 2014 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arulcish_Lion

 
Messages:263
Registered:January 2013
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
@Grim Thank you. I'll be there in a few days.
Maybe our first wishlist will be ready tomorrow.

Now there is no hysterics: "You don't like our country. This game is antirussian agitation. etc", as it was during the kickstarter. So, It'll be a point of view of people who like Jagged Alliance and do not like English. Smile

☆★GL★☆
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337146] Sun, 26 October 2014 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Arulcish Lion, glad to see you again, my friend.

Does the RU community know that the game is scheduled to have RU translation? Maybe you guys can arrange with FC to help with that part. The files for RU localization are in game, just not ready yet.

http://i.imgur.com/R1XzsHg.jpg


Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337148] Sun, 26 October 2014 02:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tango

 
Messages:106
Registered:July 2006
First impressions:

I'm sure a lot of aspects of the game will improve in the coming of time; attachments, shops etc.

For me there are three big things that are fairly critical to me only kind of enjoying the game at the moment:

1. Why on earth can the game not remember player postions within a sector after fast forwarding on the strategic layer. For me half the fun of defending a sector in JA2 was experimenting with defensive positions and layouts of mercs, weapons etc. I think that the engine may load sectors every time after you fast forward but in that case why are loot item locations stored persistently but character locations not. I find it really hard to beleive nobody mentioned this in testing at all.

2. Enemy turns take far too long to process, it is very much like all enemy movements even the unseen ones are processed in real time, very much like the Silent Storm engine. Makes for very long battles for very little purpose. Suspect this might be another engine issue.

3. The cover system is currently non existent. Seems to me like the objects don't really have defined heights etc. Walls can be seen, shot and attacked through. It plays very much like a 2d game rendered in 3d, not a true 3d experience where you constantly have to think about differential heights, crests and overwatch like in 7.62, Silent Storm or the UFO series.

I really, really want to be hopeful but I get a horrible feeling that the above 3 issues may be more to do with how the game coding and unity have been used rather than something that can be fixed.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337152] Sun, 26 October 2014 03:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Tango
First impressions:
3. The cover system is currently non existent. Seems to me like the objects don't really have defined heights etc. Walls can be seen, shot and attacked through. It plays very much like a 2d game rendered in 3d, not a true 3d experience where you constantly have to think about differential heights, crests and overwatch like in 7.62, Silent Storm or the UFO series.


http://i.imgur.com/QrPwFHk.jpg

Assets are Unity assets. They have all the properties needed. Now if someone forgot to properly set the geometry of a certain asset... that's another issue.

[Updated on: Sun, 26 October 2014 03:05] by Moderator



Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337153] Sun, 26 October 2014 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Tango

1. Why on earth can the game not remember player postions within a sector after fast forwarding on the strategic layer. For me half the fun of defending a sector in JA2 was experimenting with defensive positions and layouts of mercs, weapons etc. I think that the engine may load sectors every time after you fast forward but in that case why are loot item locations stored persistently but character locations not. I find it really hard to beleive nobody mentioned this in testing at all.

Yes, it's problematic and not fun. It hasn't been reported until lately because the spawn system wasn't implemented yet. It's hard to report things when you're not sure they are final.

Quote:
2. Enemy turns take far too long to process, it is very much like all enemy movements even the unseen ones are processed in real time, very much like the Silent Storm engine. Makes for very long battles for very little purpose. Suspect this might be another engine issue.

True. JA2 wasn't that good on that point, but several improvements of 1.13 blew a fresh breeze on that matter. JA:F has a hard time catching up on fast enemy turns.

Quote:
3. The cover system is currently non existent. Seems to me like the objects don't really have defined heights etc. Walls can be seen, shot and attacked through. It plays very much like a 2d game rendered in 3d, not a true 3d experience where you constantly have to think about differential heights, crests and overwatch like in 7.62, Silent Storm or the UFO series.

I don't agree with you. The cover system may have problems, but it's there and it works. It needs bugfixing and tweaks though. The melee through wall has been adressed, except on some places and props. You're not supposed to shoot through walls, this must be a bug. Hmm, watch out for the "open" walls, like windows and the like, they ARE open on the upper half, so LOS enabled and cover disabled! There are 3 height levels of cover, and several props take that into account. You can crawl under a bed for example. There may be a problem with the damage localisation, i'll have to test that again when i'm home. Some people argued about that on JAF forum.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337164] Sun, 26 October 2014 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tango

 
Messages:106
Registered:July 2006
Grim


I don't agree with you. The cover system may have problems, but it's there and it works. It needs bugfixing and tweaks though. The melee through wall has been adressed, except on some places and props. You're not supposed to shoot through walls, this must be a bug. Hmm, watch out for the "open" walls, like windows and the like, they ARE open on the upper half, so LOS enabled and cover disabled! There are 3 height levels of cover, and several props take that into account. You can crawl under a bed for example. There may be a problem with the damage localisation, i'll have to test that again when i'm home. Some people argued about that on JAF forum.




I'd agree that the current levels might have issues with certain wall types etc. but you should be able to shoot through walls depending on weapon type penetration values etc. It seems at the moment all ammo goes through walls without any check for this. At the moment it seems that you can shoot through half height cover from prone in tiles with windows in too easily.

However, all levels of the ones I have played are essentially flat with props rather than three dimensional. To me this is a much bigger issue in what is supposedly a 3d game. No appreciable hills or differences in level which was something that was talked about during the kickstarter campaign.

[Updated on: Sun, 26 October 2014 12:32] by Moderator

Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337166] Sun, 26 October 2014 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
You know what annoys me the most currently? the fact that view cone limitation also applies in real time out of combat. i mean, one should really be able to always see all interesting spots and NPCs when out of combat to make finding them and interacting with them easier. Or at least mark their positions by echos/placeholders for easier location.

Tunnel vision makes sense during combat, but not when you are basically strolling around casually whilst looking at your surroundings.

I know this is also a feature in JA2, but i also always circumvented that through GABBI for more comfort. And really, it are comfort features like this which may decide for many people if JA:F is for them or not. Although we never wanted JA:F to become too casualized, some comfort features like this can pretty much be regarded as standard today.

☆★GL★☆
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337169] Sun, 26 October 2014 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@Mauser - already told them to think of a solution. Easiest one was to make out-of-combat vision 360 deg, max range. Or work the minimaps to have vital location marked. If you max vision in JSON you can pretty much see EVERYTHING in JAF maps, I've tested.

@Tango - the multilevel maps are tied to the rooftop issue. You're right, but they stated pretty early that they cannot afford to code for multilevel maps, at least not until first paid DLC/expansion.

Elite:Dangerous doesn't have planetary landings either. Despite the fact that Frontier:Elite already had them. Some features are time consuming and expensive and need to be dedicated an entire sequel (like E:D is planning with landings).

[Updated on: Sun, 26 October 2014 13:06] by Moderator



Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337179] Sun, 26 October 2014 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arulcish_Lion

 
Messages:263
Registered:January 2013
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Quote:
Does the RU community know that the game is scheduled to have RU translation?
Yes, we do.

Quote:
Maybe you guys can arrange with FC to help with that part. The files for RU localization are in game, just not ready yet.
I suggested helping with the translation on our forum. But I do not promise any results.

A lot of time from JA2 passed. Our society is not as strong as it was years ago. Don't want to think about this but we are dying slowly. As I see, here you have active guys, who are happy to spend their time modding the game. I mean JA2 and JA:F too.

In ja2.su, in my opinion, we have a few of old veterans, who are in business for many years. Some of them spend about 10 years modding JA2. They started without source code, then worked with the code. I'm sure, you know, how it was in old times. So, now we have a few of active people (much less then earlier) and this people have to work, we have families and real life problems. We have unfinished JA2 projects and ideas. We are too old for a new war.

Now Night Ops team has about 4 man and 3 mods in work.

There are newcomers, but they usually are not so active. And retire after a few months. Do you remember how much time was spent to find guys for the translation of 1.13 stable 2014 version? I don't know about their progress, but they exist. Smile

In the discussion of JA:F we have about a dozen of guys and many of them think that Flashback is absolutely dead end. I don't think so, that is why I'm here again and I'm preparing our wishlist. Some of the guys use so bad Russian, that it makes harm to read.
I think that it is pretty good game. But I'm not ready to take an active part in doing it. I've played beta-test a bit. I've seen some problems, but I decided that the Bears will do this work better then I.

To be honest, JA:F release is FC attainment, The Bear's Pit attainment, your, Shanga, personal attainment, but not our.
I've tried a bit. But I'm not a magician. The future is in your hands.

UPD: One of our guys is interested how to extract this nice music from the game. Is it possible?
UPD2: Now I know how to extract music. So the question is not actual any more.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 October 2014 22:11] by Moderator


☆★GL★☆
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337241] Mon, 27 October 2014 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JayM

 
Messages:83
Registered:May 2013
Haven't posted in a while but I'm a bit shocked to find out about FC taking time off just because they didn't have an air condition in the office Surprised

Or that they wasted time in general and then put out this half-baked game...
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337244] Mon, 27 October 2014 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Wohoo, easy, easy...

FC took a week of vaccation in july (the whole team), as they have to provide holidays to their employees, and Thomas thought it was best to close for all to optimize efficiency. Heat strikes were mentionned, but not as a cause the vaccations as far as i know, it was just random weather talking, like you do with your neighbor.
During summer, we didn't have a lot of feedback, but that doesn't mean they were sitting on their thumb. There is a lot of work behind the scene to build a game, and from an outside point of view, it's hard to estimate.
I'm not here to take their defense, but the accusations seem a little abusive from where i stand.
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337247] Mon, 27 October 2014 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Well what's done is done, nobody can go back in time (yet). And yes, they took like a week off, not 2 months. If you think about it, they wouldn't do much work at 40deg anyway, they're not born in Sahara. They're Danish, if it's more than 10 deg. outside they get a sunstroke ^^.

Apart from that break, they coded like crazy on 3 projects at a time (fixing SH, working on JA:F, preparing for new SH expansion). Probably didn't look much like vacation this 2014 summer...

And they game is good, it's just like a juicy stake, wrapped up in soiled brown paper and tied up with brown rope. All it needs is decent packaging and display case. And some chef to plate and season it a bit.

Damn I am hungry now...


Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337251] Mon, 27 October 2014 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JayM

 
Messages:83
Registered:May 2013
Grim
Wohoo, easy, easy...

FC took a week of vaccation in july (the whole team), as they have to provide holidays to their employees, and Thomas thought it was best to close for all to optimize efficiency. Heat strikes were mentionned, but not as a cause the vaccations as far as i know, it was just random weather talking, like you do with your neighbor.
During summer, we didn't have a lot of feedback, but that doesn't mean they were sitting on their thumb. There is a lot of work behind the scene to build a game, and from an outside point of view, it's hard to estimate.
I'm not here to take their defense, but the accusations seem a little abusive from where i stand.


Of course there is nothing wrong with taking a (coordinated) vacation. They way I read Shanga's post above I maybe misunderstood something - it read to me that valuable time was carelessly wasted. I wasn't around at that time so I can only relate to what I hear (or rather, what I read). Smile

Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337252] Mon, 27 October 2014 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JayM

 
Messages:83
Registered:May 2013
Shanga

And they game is good, it's just like a juicy stake, wrapped up in soiled brown paper and tied up with brown rope. All it needs is decent packaging and display case. And some chef to plate and season it a bit.


I said so on the JAF official forum - I think we have a good solid basis for what can become a great game.

But at the moment it is not more than a beta to me. I really don't mind FC taking longer to finish the game and I really like the guys but I'm afraid that the majority of the still necessary work will eventually be dumped on the Bear's Pit.

Now I know that you are capable of turning JAF into almost a AAA game as you have proven with the 1.13/UC Hybrid, but in that case I'd rather have spent some of my kickstarter money on you good people than on FC... It just doesn't seem right to me that I spend way more than what a AAA console game would cost and then volunteers have to finish the job.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 October 2014 23:57] by Moderator

Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337254] Tue, 28 October 2014 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
You're not up to date with news, are you? ^^

I've just got Thomas Lund to confirm live, on Twitch, the plan I've been working on for a year now, discretely and undercover. To have community mods integrated into JAF (true, only THE BEST OF THE BEST) as paid DLCs. He even added, on his own initiative, that ANY large scale content provided by the community - if needed - will be remunerated. As long we're able to guarantee an initial Quality Check for the submissions, so they don't get swamped in crapolla send by everyone and his mum who thinks she's awesome at 3d skinning with Paint.

All we need now is to put our mouth where our money is Smile)

[Updated on: Tue, 28 October 2014 01:07] by Moderator



Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337273] Tue, 28 October 2014 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JayM

 
Messages:83
Registered:May 2013
Shanga
You're not up to date with news, are you? ^^


Did it say so anywhere in written? Wink I tuned in for a few minutes but I don't have the time to listen to a 5 hours Twitch cast Wink

Does that mean we have to pay for mods that have a new storyline like Urban Chaos e.g. (which is perfectly fine)? Or will we have to pay for basic functions that should have been in the game in the first place?
Re: JA:F Steam release first impressions[message #337280] Tue, 28 October 2014 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Shanga

 
Messages:3516
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
It's on the front portal page of the forum mate...boo...

Quote:
Does that mean we have to pay for mods that have a new storyline like Urban Chaos e.g. (which is perfectly fine)? Or will we have to pay for basic functions that should have been in the game in the first place?


Nope. Large scale or small scale fixes made by the community and quality approved by the BP Panel and the put into the game will always be part of the main game. Thomas said that they're willing to discuss a financial remuneration if a group comes to them with a massive update or fix, but that patch won't be "resold" to you. It will just become part of the game.

As for large scale or small scale DLCs made by our community, it's really up to the modders. I will recommend anyone to first launch a couple of small FREE MODS on the market, so Steam community will be aware of their skills.

People are paying for JA2 Wildfire, right? Those russians were a group of modders and nobody committed suicide to protest they're selling a mod.

So to answer your question, if ever I manage to put together such an awesome team as we had when JA2UC was done, maybe even get some of the old timers back, yes, JA:F Urban Chaos will have a price tag. But not a high price tag, you won't have to pay 40 euros for it, like you do with Bioware and shit. Would you object to paying 10-15 euro for JAF:UC?

Also I will recommend any modder to price his mini-DLC somewhere around 3 euro and below. That way the project and the game itself will gain traction.


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