Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » #JAFDEV » FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337350] Wed, 29 October 2014 22:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sooner

 
Messages:35
Registered:January 2004
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Actually I think their method is pretty damn ingenious though. The ammunition really does determine how powerful the weapon is, the weapon just determines how accurately and how often that rounds gets to the target.

Expanding upon this idea, you could even get down to the level of individual load types. 110gr, 130gr, 180gr etc for the exact same caliber if you could assign a third variable that stepped up or down from the base.

The idea that occurred to me last night is, can we come up with a formula that takes all of the work done on the JA2 weapon stats and balancing that would give us a start for assigning the correct stats in JAF?
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337351] Wed, 29 October 2014 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
I am planning to base my first beta test of weapon rebalance on a few factors:

1. sector size (100 x 100 max)
2. vision range (default 20)
3. visual impression (as I told the devs, if a car is 3 tiles long, my gun shouldn't fail to hit someone at the other end of it).
4. how effective is the AI with the new weapons

You need to factor in at least the above if you want the gameplay to feel "right". JA2 sectors were a bit different in proportions, imho and anyway, when we talk JA2, what are we talking about? Vanilla? v1.13? BigMaps project? You get the idea, so many variables...

Roman (their main coder) has a knack for translating into pretty solid functions the real world issues and I doubt there's much he missed regarding factors to consider. At least for the scope of a computer game.



Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337354] Wed, 29 October 2014 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sooner

 
Messages:35
Registered:January 2004
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
I was just about to mention the fact that vision range would also have to be taken into account although I think the current vision range during day time leaves the weapons feeling impotent at times. The night time vision range feels about right but during the day, I should be able to spot a human firing at me with a large caliber weapon from at least a couple hundred yards, camo and flash/noise suppression not withstanding.
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337358] Thu, 30 October 2014 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Yea, I was never comfortable with the default vision and/or view cone. Apparently FC was neither, but they nerfed it because damn Unity 4 memleaks like a fishnet trying to hold water. Maybe Unity 5 upgrade will give the game better performance.

Sadly, from my time with Unity editor, I learned that once I started to make really detailed maps, with lots of assets, it slowly became unplayable. Maybe it would be a solution for FC to "cheat" a bit and bundle more assets into a single graphic (like a fruit stand as a whole, instead 1 stand + 20 fruits placed manually). I am not an expert, but that might help (gonna suggest that to devs next time we talk). Yea, will reduce creativity, but in the end, if it improves performance maybe it's worth it.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 October 2014 00:46] by Moderator



Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337359] Thu, 30 October 2014 01:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryan_Prime

 
Messages:18
Registered:October 2007
Just to jump in on that, as a player may I say, performance > environment graphics.

As long as the mercs are cool and memorable and the gameplay is good, I am a happy JA player.

Now, animated talking portraits, that's another story! Must have!
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337360] Thu, 30 October 2014 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cyborg

 
Messages:38
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe
For the guns part I'll leave my recoil data/calculator here I made for NCTH in case it might be of use. Has all the 1.13 guns except the futuristic ones which I couldn't find data for. Feel free to update it with data for individual loads.


I've put together an Excel with an integrated recoil calculator. I've fed in the ammo data for all MP/SMG/AR/MG's in the game so that each weapon now has it's "real" recoil values.

Since there are countless ammo variations but JA2 guns can only have one recoil value I chose what seemed to be the most common Military/Police loading. Details are in the Ammo tab. You can change any values here and the recoil of all associated guns will change automatically.

Short explanation on Recoil: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_recoil.htm

Since both Recoil Energy and Recoil Velocity calculations are divided by the guns weight, I added in Recoil Impulse as a 3rd element that's only linked to cartridge power. I hope this will make balancing between different ammo types a bit easier. Recoil is very dependent on weight. Attachments would help increase weight and reduce recoil but this can't accounted for so I took a loaded gun without external attachments as the baseline.

Apparently perceived recoil is about 1/3 Recoil Energy and 2/3 Recoil Velocity so I've made a formula based on that with the average in game 5.56 values(7-8) as the baseline. Since the variations between cartridge types were IMO too low I added an Impulse value to spread the results out. Surprisingly, while some weapons are way out of whack, in general the values I received are broadly inline with the current ones.

My suggested Formula

NCTH Recoil:// x / y
SMG //0 /column value
AR except 7x51 //1 /column value
AR 7x51 //2 /column value-1
MP with stock //1 /column value
MP w/o stock //2 /column value
MG //0 /column value

As an additional game and balancing mechanic it might be useful to add some global modifiers to some weapon types (f.e. maybe -1 y recoil for bullpups?).

http://www.2shared.com/file/23OXRGzk/RealRecoilforNCTHv10.html

[Updated on: Thu, 30 October 2014 01:23] by Moderator

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337361] Thu, 30 October 2014 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
You know Shanga, i think this initiative is a great idea with loads of potential and quite the achievement for the BP and especially you! It is also quite the merit for FC to be the first company to actually dare something like this, mainly due to the fact FC being a truly independent studio composed of true gamers and fans themselves, who realized that most of the future success of their product depends on the community support for it.

This could be the start of a little revolution in gaming and dev/community relations if it works out right, putting the BP at the very avantgarde of modding communities.

Although i really want to know one thing: can we consider this project the basis of the Stable Modding Platform, which we sought after for so long? Or is SMP going to remain an entirely separate project? Because from my viewpoint, JA:F with its Unity Engine provides all the functions and features initially requested for SMP (as envisioned by me at least). And even if FC somewhat failed to deliver the game everyone hoped for, the basics for extensive modding are mostly there and rather solid, with great future expansion potential of course.

Slax
Well, the game barely even has an intro. That's something to work on.


True dat. Not only does it lack a proper intro, but the whole start of the game feels quite anemic and unexciting, missing a lot of preparatory info and options like JA2 had. There is literally almost nothing to get one immersed into the game, by creating a proper atmosphere.
One thing that vexes me most is, that there is nothing to find in the starting sector in terms of items. There should at least be something that "fell out" of the crashed chopper, or something hidden in that small ruined site. Also there is no seamless, "organic" insertion sequence like the heli drop in JA2. But it is the first few minutes of a game that already determine for many more casual players, if they keep interested long enough to play it through the first few sectors at least. A good initial impression is so important for games today, and yet JA:F comletely falls flat on this regard. Maybe that's one of the very first things modders and devs should look into together?

Also, another core area to focus on should be to always provide the ample and solid tools for modders to work with. This end of the deal will mostly fall to FC, though BP has proven its commitment to even go as far as to create its own modding tools from scratch if need be (hey Tox! ;P)

But FC should definitely at least share some of their Unity Engine knowhow with the modding community as support, to prove their serious commitment to this initiative, which will only work as a fair bidirectional exchange of potentials.

Anyhow, i will gladly try to do my humble part to make this initiative a success!


☆★GL★☆
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337362] Thu, 30 October 2014 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@Mauser - good one on the SMP thought... It did cross my mind, I can't lie. Also the failure to transform v1.13 into SMP kinda made me consider alternatives. At one time I was pondering raising funds for a BP Unity license and give that to a good modder to make us a SMP out of it...

But no need for that anymore... FC delivered just what we wanted right in our lap. And it's not $1500/year. It's a mere 30 euro. And they've agreed to PAY for good dlcs... I mean you know how the whole SMP went and all the frustration as well as me.

Now you can see why I am bloody ecstatic how things with FC went. It will be lots of work to set up this properly, but hey... when did we shy away from that?


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337363] Thu, 30 October 2014 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3425
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Eh. SMP was way before my time, so I might have understood that wrong... but wasn't the idea of SMP to have a platform with loads of modding capabilities over which we still had control? Like, we could add new code to the game? Because however this goes, we will never be able to add new game mechanics to this.


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337364] Thu, 30 October 2014 02:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Uhmm, yea, but SMP would also never allowed you to monetize anything, cause it would've been based on JA2 source and its license. There was an idea at some point to start over on a free engine and that got tossed away quite fast, too.

Let's take it one step at a time. I know if you could peek at the code you'd have 10 new features to make, but that's a pretty large leap of faith for FC to make. Point is, if they see the whole plan is working and the BP can turn the tides, maybe they will consider letting us deeper in. But so far we're all on the very tight rope. They have a messed up launch, we (yet) don't have enough tools and info to mod it as we'd like. And haven't provided much but moral support. I am kinda chewing my hands waiting for the modding part to get done, but I do understand there are other things on the table now.

All I can promise so far Flugente is that if I ever get invited to a Full Control office party, you can sneak in instead of me, hack their mainframe and re-code the entire source as you like. That shouldn't take you more than 2 minutes so nobody will notice you missing. Sounds like a plan, eh?


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337366] Thu, 30 October 2014 05:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sooner

 
Messages:35
Registered:January 2004
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Shanga

But no need for that anymore... FC delivered just what we wanted right in our lap. And it's not $1500/year. It's a mere 30 euro. And they've agreed to PAY for good dlcs... I mean you know how the whole SMP went and all the frustration as well as me.


Huh? What did I miss? I did see where you could get a monthly license of unity for $75, which might even prove to be cost effective in some cases IF you wanted to wrap up all the assets before beginning work on the majority of the mod in earnest.
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337369] Thu, 30 October 2014 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I guess Shanga's talking about JA:F, the game, not Unity.
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337370] Thu, 30 October 2014 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Unity licenses are a dream... Just read (yes, it's either $1500/y or $75/m, but with some interesting strings attached):


  • A subscription runs for a minimum of 12 months and is available via the Online Store.
  • There is a limit of 3 subscription plans per customer account.
  • You do not own the Unity Pro license. If you choose to end your subscription after 12 months, your Unity Pro license will revert to the free version of Unity.
  • A subscription to Unity Pro costs $75/month. Each Pro add-on also costs $75/month. And a Team License add-on costs $20/month.
  • Everyone can subscribe. If you are already a customer, you can start a separate subscription plan alongside your perpetual license.
  • You own any content that you create with a Unity Pro subscription.
  • You are committed to paying all monthly payments in a 12 month plan.

I don't want to debate Unity licensing, there are dozens of rage threads about it on Unity forums. Just saying.. you paid 30 euro and got on your lap a start-up kit to make a JA game. Maybe not a perfect one, but if it took a gamedev studio 14 months to get to this stage a community project would've take double or triple. Only making a proper bloody map takes 2-3 weeks. That's will all assets already created. Nevermind the rest of the game.

The essential detail here is the relation with FC. As long as they are willing to interact with the community, a lot of nice things can come out of this. Having our own Unity dev team is a nice idea, but I put that into perspective. If the BP - into some distance future - starts accumulating more money than debts and I have $75/m extra I can rely on, yep, I wouldn't mind handing such license to someone like Flugente.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 October 2014 11:16] by Moderator



Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337377] Thu, 30 October 2014 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Flugente
Eh. SMP was way before my time, so I might have understood that wrong... but wasn't the idea of SMP to have a platform with loads of modding capabilities over which we still had control? Like, we could add new code to the game? Because however this goes, we will never be able to add new game mechanics to this.


Well, the original Concept of SMP (as envisioned by me) was, to do whatever is necessary, to provide future modders with a solid engine with maximum accessibility and moddability and all the needed properly ergonomic tools, to make modding as easy and productive as possible.
For this, practically all options were on the table, including starting recreating JA2/1.13 from scratch on a new (free) modern engine, or hacking/cleaning up and reengineering JA2's engine and editors until they work properly. The main idea behind SMP was also, to enable access to more modders potential and draw that potential here to the BP, by providing a more modern and comfortable modding base for the already active and capable modders out there, especially also outside of the BP, which were used to more modern platforms and tools, like true 3D assets.

From my perspective, FC now has delivered just that new base we need with JA:F on Unity engine. Not a perfect base by all means, but a very solid one with good potential nonetheless.

Unfortunately, i got degraded and banned from SMP forums months ago for daring to ask, if all the efforts of SMP should be shifted towards and focused on JA:F and Unity engine exclusively from now on, despite all the work already done trying to hack good old JA2 into something more useful and accessible.

But i think, though the question might have been offensive to some at that point (and the wording too easily misunderstandable), that now is the right time to ask that question again (and probably do that in form of a public community wide poll). Wink, wink Shanga! :naughty:

The thing is, we must first thoroughly evaluate, if JA:F/FC/Unity engine can really deliver all the things we need for and from SMP in the forseeable future at least? My hopes are, that if we can find/train some able people sufficiently fit in Untiy Engine and LUA, little is impossible for us in the long run, except for the very innate limitations of Unity Engine itself and the usual legal restrictions. Especially regarding the usage of free 3D assets available, which are far more than the 2D stuff used by JA2.

The Initiative to bring together modders and devs/publishers in a common effort to improve the game and its contents can be a core effort in that direction and probably is the most promising way to determine, how far modding JA:F can really get us in regards of its use as a SMP.

But besides all that, it should be very clear, that development of good, old JA2/1.13 will continue alongside SMP regardless, as long as there are madly productive and ingenious people like Flugente taking care of it.

Because no matter what SMP may bring or become in the end, it surely as hell will take a LONG time to reach the feature richness and complexity of current 1.13! It will remain to be seen, if JA:F or a SMP based thereon really can become a better game in every way as JA2 with 1.13 + mods is now! Which in turn will hinge mainly on how much modder manpower we can mobilize and draw to JA:F/SMP how quickly. For which this modder-developer cooperation initiative is the first crucial step.

Ultimately, for us here at the BP, the future use of JA:F will be determined by how good it is suited as a modding platform.

And for FC, the future and longevity of JA:F, because of the less than stellar reviews so far, will be determined by our success in establishing it as a proper community modding platform, to allow the game to mature and expand beyond its imperfections and limited scope as of now.

So the convergence of common core interests is clearly a given. FC and the community are sitting in the same boat, now we must determine the common course to take before we start rowing.

☆★GL★☆
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337378] Thu, 30 October 2014 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@Mauser - you didn't get banned (you can't ban anyone from just a forum, bans are BP wide)... it was just that them coders wanted some private forums where they could talk about code and stuff without us bothering them. So I made them a private zone and let them to their talk among themselves.


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337381] Thu, 30 October 2014 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TWJunky

 
Messages:82
Registered:November 2012
Location: Austria
Hey guys, in my previous post I mentioned financial support. I think having a unity license is crucial to for this project. Therefore I am willing to pay for a unity license. Furthermore one of my close friends works as 3D designer for an app company. I talked to him and he will teach me how to make 3d models in Blender. These models can then be imported into Unity. I was thinking of moddeling some weapons that were included in the JA2 1.13. Hopefully I can show you some work next week. Let me know what you guys think Smile.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 October 2014 16:27] by Moderator

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337384] Thu, 30 October 2014 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JaaN

 
Messages:7
Registered:January 2004
Location: Turkey

Hi after watching the JA:F videos and reading all these discussions may i ask a question.

Since you don't have the full source code and unity licences. Why didn't anyone tried Unreal Engine 4? Unity is great for indies and lots of gameready resource on its market but licensing is too high for modders (as you have mentioned before) UE4 is 19$/Month and 5% cut (if you sell the game) including full source code.

I know FC made the game with unity but it doesn't seem like they made too much effort for doing this game.
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337387] Thu, 30 October 2014 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@TWJunky - we'll need someone with UnityPro for some advanced tasks (like making custom assets) so that's great news.

@JaaN - I think Unreal went cheap only recently (last year?). Anyway, engine is only the first tiny step for a game. The you need a decent asset library. And AI code and many many things.

Let's not put the cart ahead of the horses here, though. Let's mod JAF and see where this leads us. Having experience with Unity won't hurt, no matter what happens.


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337405] Fri, 31 October 2014 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris K

 
Messages:13
Registered:March 2012
Location: Germany
Chris K from the JAF Forums here. It would be great if it was possible to change my name here to it as well.

I can't do all that much (that's helpful Very Happy), but I would love to help in any way possible.
That's where I hope I might be able to help:
- I think I am a decent writer, so I could probably help in that field. However, I am not great when it comes to coming up with new ideas, so some kind of brainstorming in that regard would be helpful.
- I am a native German speaker, so I could help translating anything into German.
- I would be willing to do some voice work as well, but I kinda suck:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLGR_SGMzQnsqA_RupzzkLA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDWxHEUMQAiT-pkhQtgkwJg

I am also more than willing to spend time, so if you have any work that doesn't require a lot of skill, feel free to call on me.

[Updated on: Fri, 31 October 2014 12:08] by Moderator

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337407] Fri, 31 October 2014 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Chris, there's an option in My Stuff (your profile page). Request it there and I will approve it.

For now I think you, as a native German, could help a lot of you would proofread the German translations and correct what sounds weird (and mail the corrected files to FC). Just saying.

I've shown the entire Rollout plan to FC guys, waiting to hear from them if there's something they don't agree with. Atm I am waiting for the first patches to roll in and peeking at the code, trying to figure out bits and pieces.

The infrastructure for the BP panels and stuff is ready, it's nothing very complicated. It's going to be put online once we have the proper modding tools at our disposal, probably somewhere after New Year's. I hope FC don't delay it too long, otherwise this will lose quite a nice momentum before it even gets up to speed.

Best thing to do now is to poke at those JSONs and see what they're about if you haven't already.


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337523] Mon, 03 November 2014 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
strel
Messages:1
Registered:November 2014
Hi there!

I like, what you plan and I'd like to help, but I have not an artistic disposition. I am more into coding. I just wirtten a little tool to edit the localization json files. It's just a hack, so don't expect mutch, but it's maybe useful and if there is some interest, I could improve it.

https://gitorious.org/jaf/linguist

It's actually a Python script with a Qt gui, so you need Python3 an PyQt4 to run it. I haven't test it under Windows yet.
You may open two files at once for easy compare two diffrent languages, because the keys are not realy obvious. On the left side you select a key and with the insert button you change the text. Save will overwrite the opened file. Don't expect any "Are you sure?", so be careful and use a copy of the file.

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337610] Fri, 07 November 2014 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Archo

 
Messages:7
Registered:May 2013
Hello,

I hope I can contribute something. Perhaps just beta-testing. I have a strong opinion (sometimes too strong) what JA:F needs and what feature and dlcs are niche. Also I have a high standard of quality, so medicore voice overs or graphics I would point out. Result should be, that the DLCs have such high value, that no bad reviews on steam or else are even possible.

I supported the ks campaign from the start. I created feature lists on the JA:F forum, so we all know what is missing or asked a lot. It is just not prioritized. So if FC let us prioritize their release plans, I would like to add my voice. Cool

[Updated on: Fri, 07 November 2014 16:17] by Moderator

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337981] Tue, 25 November 2014 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TWJunky

 
Messages:82
Registered:November 2012
Location: Austria
HI Shanga! I was just wondering if there are any updates from FC yet?`
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #337984] Tue, 25 November 2014 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

Well Roman delivered patch 1.0.6 and said they're working on re-enabling the modding.

Quote:

JAF - next up
Hey all,

I wanted to take the opportunity to tell you a bit about our current status, and where we are heading within the few next weeks.

As you know, we just released 1.0.5 in little over a week ago. With this update, we introduced ammo types, shotguns and a new questline, beside other bugfixes and features (see full changelog here: http://www.jaggedallianceflashback.com/forum/27/6082#post_6176).

Since then, we have worked on the new Shop interface, which is now in the stage of testing and quality assurance. Furthermore, we have given the Stealth formulas a critical look, and have changed a few things based on the feedback from here in the forum - there was definitely something fishy going on, that we did not catch before release - but still, it will need some more work until we are happy with it.

As these are both quite substantial changes to gameplay and balancing, we do not want to rush things out - meaning I cannot promise any release date on the next Update 1.0.6, which will include those things. We are also working on getting the modding menu back in the game, to share all the cool mods I have seen popup here already. Obviously, there are also still bugs - like the save / load and freezing issues - we are trying to hunt it down, and thanks for everyone giving us their input on this - it is much appreciated! Keep it coming.

Reaching further than the next immediate update, there are weapon attachments coming up, a feature which I am personally looking forward to a lot, and our content team has secretely hatched some plans to extend the game with a handful of sectors and - yet again - a new questline, and ofc the promised additional weapons pack.

As always, we are working on it as fast as we can, and I hope you like what we are doing!

Cheers,
Roman


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338014] Fri, 28 November 2014 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fathamburger

 
Messages:27
Registered:October 2006
Location: USA
Hey guys. I'm a $150 backer here. Only just got around to playing the game finally but came in here to see if everyone else's reaction was as... unfavourable as mine lol

That being said though, after reading this announcement I'm totally up for throwing to help polish the game up to what it should have been. Not so much interested in doing the paid mods for now. At the moment the question to be answered is, does Full Control have the funds/commitment to continue polishing this up anyway? or does the community really need to help takeover at this point. And then there is the issue of compensation or profit share (more on this later) but if things finally work out I can throw in some time free of charge till at least around late Jan and maybe "casual commitment" after that.

I'm a C++/C# coder who did study gamedev but I've been focused on getting finances and other businesses to support my own studio (which will be more aimed at mobile/social). In addition I'm also good with video editing/compositing/vfx so I can help put together some video sequences and motion gfx but I'm no modeller or animator so I would need others' assets and I'm also a pretty good writer/designer. Arguably better than programming in the long run I think. I also havent had much hands on with Unity but it's on the agenda for next year and this seems like a damn good way to learn.

In the next 2 weeks or so I will be confirming whether the whole game studio thing is a go (in terms of money) and looking to set up in LA by late Jan. This means that I'll be in an ideal location to source some low cost upcoming voice talent that are eager to build their portfolios and maybe network my way into some studio time but it's also possible to use a service like voicebunny.com as well (also acquainted with the founder).

Anyhow Ill have the most time during the next 6-9 months as I'll be conservative in building out my own tech base as well as figuring out location/offices for the business and waiting out the current US immigration reform mess. I can also bring in some of my own team, two of which I think have played JA2 before (designer, student programmer) and maybe a former AAA tester a well. And now with that out of the way... I'm thinking a co-production agreement could be possible.

---

These would be on my immediate agenda to address. If it were me actually, with the chance of a community assisted redo I would pull the game before this current iteration becomes the permanent impression. I would put the game back on early access. FC at least have a solid base game to build on here that imo just needs more content and polish.

- UI redo and fixes. Fix the refresh problem with the current UI, it doesnt refresh when your guys level up. There's also not enough tooltips or explanations about how to doctor/medic and so forth. At the very least get it up to JA2 standard. There also needs to be a tutorial explaining what can be done and why for the map UI in adddition to the combat. I would redo the whole NPC convo/interaction to be more cinematic. Front and center, different fonts. The whole UI seems so placeholder which I think we can all agree

- Scrap being held hostage to JA2 voiceovers. I would redo all voiceovers with unique scripts with soundalikes (or as close to it as possible). Ive learned this lesson from previous project, familiarity doesnt count for so much. Missing the JA2 banter and NPC interactions is a much bigger weakness.

- Emphasise "Founding of AIM". I was very disappointed that they just did a dollar store copy of JA2 including how it starts. This is where Full Control really veered off. There could be multiple competing agencies to begin with and something happens that combines them altogether, or from the ashes of old agencies. You would have an option to start with one of them, with differing emphasis and selection of mercs (and thus giving some replay value). Quests to pursue that introduce the "old favourites" but generally ground the game at least halfway more in a cast unique to Flashback. A nice wishlist would be the "The Prince" is going against all the mercs and generally winning to begin with, he could take out one of the merc agencies (or seeding traitors) thus sending their guys over to merge with yours and eventually at the end of the conflict AIM would be formed from a combination of what's left. This would play out with a different structure and pace less reminiscent of JA2 as it is now. I think we all wanted to play a new game rather than a rehash of the old.

- Rewrite just about every character in the game, make things more grounded in Flashback and less from other games. It wasnt necessary to bring back all of the old faces just for fan service sake and more importantly, have them all hireable in the beginning. There's nothing to work for. Half the game is desiring new mercs or finding new ones. There is some of this i.e. rescuing Vicky Waters, but that wasnt consistent with her backstory. I wouldn't just make everyone a bit younger but place that at earlier stages in their lives where perhaps they havent developed the confidence or made the choices to become who they will be later as we know them in JA1 and 2 etc. Some quests or game events could be formative for the old faves e.g. Lynx going from designated marksman to the best there is or a more hotheaded and reckless Sidney.

- Many more missions and quests. Related to the above.

- Not touch the guns and mechanics at all Smile For people who want to mess with making weapons and attachments great. I think they are serviceable for now, although Id tweak the missions to require more specialised setups i.e. CQB, Hollow Pt specific mission with human wave attacks that need to be put down fast.

Lastly, here's a character design I did based on a friend last year to give you an idea of bringing back some of the old humour into it that FC seem to have sanitised out of the game Sad

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/320490/Design_A_Merc_Jake_Holiday_Por.html

EDIT : Forgot to mention the profit sharing. I was thinking there isnt much left since the game is already released but if it is pulled and put back into early access, then re-released as JA Flashback Complete, or Redux or whatever since I may have some money free to literally reinvest into this to finish the job. There could be some new profit to be had but this is based on the assumption that Full Control have already burned up the funds or they wouldn't have released in this state. Depending on whether this is true, could also take some kind of skeleton crew / labour of love base compensation instead if there is money from Space Hulk sales towards doing things properly.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 November 2014 14:27] by Moderator

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338016] Fri, 28 November 2014 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
All the above are valid points and do-able (maybe UI redesign is a bit too ambitious, considering devs said UI was never programmed to be moddable so it's hardcoded as fuck). I'd DOUBLE emphasize the "Founding of AIM" thing - which was the whole purpose of the game and is completely lost.


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338027] Sat, 29 November 2014 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fathamburger

 
Messages:27
Registered:October 2006
Location: USA
Hey Shanga, so any idea how much post release work commitment FC has towards JAF? is it just going to be minor fixes and balance tweaks? They have mentioned a few new storylines and this and that so hard to tell. How much of the torch are we going to have to carry in otherwords

The UI being hardcoded is pretty dumb and old school (I can understand the reasoning) Razz but not a problem if they can focus on the UI work and maybe AI improvements and things specific to the engine and we take on the content side we have a shot.

I actually hadn't played the game much to notice the AI issues when I made that post but having now noticed that the AI just runs to you slowly without shooting, I think we can still work around that via map design or having tagged cover pts for the AI to "MoveTo" in addition to the waypointing already set up. Would be nice if FC could be backporting better stuff that they have in Space Hulk or their other games too but of course, depends on what dev time they can spare.

For me personally the best time to contribute is basically now to first quarter of next year since the closer to mid year since we're self funded for now, but once we've raised VC for ourselves later I'll probably have to bow out. The expenses for myself to move to LA and the time spent are going to happen anyway so at the very least I should just be able to help source voiceovers and ADR and as for the writing, well I'm eager to start. If time permits in the next few days, I'll write up a treatment for the founding of AIM and one or two sample character rewrites. Ill need a better picture of what FC's plans are and the current community team and plans to put more time into it but defintiely raring to go. There is a window here, but Ive also got my own stuff to work on too Smile
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338039] Sat, 29 November 2014 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Comparing to any other previous JA developer, they are the Gods of commitment. Considering Ian Currie himself took years to understand what modders do for a game (initially he basically hated anyone who modded JA2), FC are a dream come true.

That other side of the coin is that they're hugely dependent on sales from SH and JAF to survive as a studio. It was a huge gamble for them, they put everything on the line. So while this makes very open to our feedback and very flexible when it comes down to sharing profit with modders, it leaves them with limited resources. Atm they have a core team of coders that work on JAF, to finish the promised patches. But not the whole studio - they need to keep coming up with new games (like SH Ascension) if they want to have a paycheck at the end of the month.

If you're asking me whether FC will deliver on their written promises, I say YES.

If you're asking me whether FC will spend another year in order to make JAF into JA2 for free, I say NOPE.

If you're asking me whether FC will ever abandon JAF to the dustbin, there are two answers:
- YES: if the community fails to deliver content that helps sales
- NOPE: if once mods start flowing the sales trend starts to recover

If we pull the rabbit out of the hat with the mods, then FC will be more than willing to consider a JAF Reloaded.

[Updated on: Sat, 29 November 2014 15:10] by Moderator



Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338047] Sun, 30 November 2014 04:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fathamburger

 
Messages:27
Registered:October 2006
Location: USA
It was more of the second if. As most reviews pointed out, half the game is still missing and I was wondering if they had plans to finish the job, or if it was more the case of getting the base game out and then hoping we could pick up the slack Razz

Any idea how many patches they have a time line for right now?

I'm of the opinion that mods wont save this if the base game is still so shit basically. The reviews are already probably not doing it any favours for sales. I know they need to bring in more money but if so many guys like me are basically ignoring the base game for now "till it gets better", there's not going to be leftover interest to check out mods either.

[Updated on: Sun, 30 November 2014 05:00] by Moderator

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338048] Sun, 30 November 2014 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
On the TODO list they have two things remaining: attachments + soviet weapons (as features).
Then releasing an updated map editor + a lot of modding perks and info.

Attachments basically is the last major change to the gameplay. And a huge one. And shouldn't take much longer to be here.


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338059] Mon, 01 December 2014 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Shanga
On the TODO list they have two things remaining: attachments + soviet weapons (as features).
Then releasing an updated map editor + a lot of modding perks and info.

Attachments basically is the last major change to the gameplay. And a huge one. And shouldn't take much longer to be here.


Well, that sounds good i'd say.

Although i REALLY hope, they'll make the attachment system proper and with solid crafting mechanics.
I don't expect anything near as fancy or polished as what 1.13 offers, but mcgyvering found stuff into tactically useful things was an important part of JA since forever, so they better either make this work even on a basic level, or at least provide all the means for modders to do so.

Because the list of features to bring JA:F up to at least vanilla JA2 standard is still rather long.
Also the fact that i still cannot jump over walls, climb on roofs or open and close doors bugs me to no end, besides severely limiting the tactical depth.

And i reckon it will take FC and the modding community at least a good year of hard work before it'll even come close to a JA:F Reloaded Edition. And until then, the reviews are hardly gonna get more favorable, as will the sales. Nobody wants to pay for an essentially unfinished, unpolished sub-par game, which JA:F still is and still gonna be after the coming final update.

But seeing how some (semi)professionals like fathamburger are even committed to help out, everything seems still possible with the right amount of manpower and coordination.

☆★GL★☆
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338068] Tue, 02 December 2014 06:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fathamburger

 
Messages:27
Registered:October 2006
Location: USA
Shanga
On the TODO list they have two things remaining: attachments + soviet weapons (as features).
Then releasing an updated map editor + a lot of modding perks and info.

Attachments basically is the last major change to the gameplay. And a huge one. And shouldn't take much longer to be here.


Ok thats some good news at least. Just dont want to be overlapping with anything they've already got coming.

I'll write up something story wise + character rewrite samples this weekend and also start poking around in Unity to see what can be modded/added straight away.Ill need till the end of the month to confirm the studio startup + everything else I mentioned but hopefully from Jan/Feb onwards we'll be a go Smile
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338079] Wed, 03 December 2014 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Great news everyone, JAF 1.1.0 is out on public beta and alpha test branches and it brings weapon attachments, new free content (quests, sectors), lighthouse control points, some localizations and more. I've posted a sneak-peak on Bear's Pit FB page of some of the new stuff. Go check that out. Also, the Steam Workshop modding interface is back online so now we can publish safely new mods!

ATTACHMENTS
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/gallery/80/medium/458.jpg

- Five slots (weapon dependant)
Quote:
"Id": "Slot_Mechanism",
"Id": "Slot_Magazine",
"Id": "Slot_Rail",
"Id": "Slot_UnderBarrel",
"Id": "Slot_Barrel",


- Multiple effects
Quote:
"Modifiers": {
"AP": 0,
"EffectiveRange": 5,
"MuzzleVelocity": 1,
"Mobility": -2.0,
"Damage": 0,
"ClipSize": 0,
"CTHStanceBonusStand": 0,
"CTHStanceBonusCrouch": 0,
"CTHStanceBonusProne": 0,
"CTHGeneralBonus": 15,
"CTHGeneralBonusMaxDistance": 5,
"SilencerBonus": 0,
"NightVisionBonus": 0
}

Also duckbill and choke for shotguns add specific modifiers:

"Modifiers": {
"MultipleSpreadHorizontal": -15,
"MultipleSpreadVertical": -5
}



EXTRA SOVIET WEAPONS PACK
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/gallery/80/medium/459.jpg

[Updated on: Wed, 03 December 2014 20:42] by Moderator



Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338174] Tue, 09 December 2014 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TWJunky

 
Messages:82
Registered:November 2012
Location: Austria
Hey! seeing that the mod workshop is working again and shanga is already working on some minor mods I think its time to coordinate some efforts. Maybe we want to do a poll on what the community wants most. We could select a few core themes and let the community vote on what they would like prioritized form the modders. That way we would know on what features they would spend money on. Please let me know what you guys think of my idea. we need to get moving here before all the wind is out of the sails for this project. time is of the essence. I am still willing to buy the unity license for the more advanced tasks.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 December 2014 18:17] by Moderator

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338176] Tue, 09 December 2014 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
I waiting for poll ideas and as soon as we get a list, I'll make it.

We need a discussion first because some things would be simply unrealistic. And we need them to be generic themes, not straightforward mod ideas, because in the end, that's up to the modder/modding team to come up with.

Speaking of my mods, a bit of shameless plug:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/shanga/myworkshopfiles/?appid=256010&sort=score&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall

[Updated on: Tue, 09 December 2014 19:20] by Moderator



Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338177] Tue, 09 December 2014 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TWJunky

 
Messages:82
Registered:November 2012
Location: Austria
OK than lets start a discussions. Do you want to create a new thread for this?
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338178] Tue, 09 December 2014 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
No, we can talk here. I'll start:

Modding themes:

- New sectors
- New mercs
- New items
- Old JA/JA2 mercenaries in JAF
- Old JA/JA2 weapons in JAF
- A completely new usermade campaign
- An old JA2 usermade campaign reworked for JAF
- JA/JA2 campaign reworked for JAF

Continue please...


Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338179] Tue, 09 December 2014 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryan_Prime

 
Messages:18
Registered:October 2007
- Portrait animation project
Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338183] Wed, 10 December 2014 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TWJunky

 
Messages:82
Registered:November 2012
Location: Austria
-improved AI

[Updated on: Wed, 10 December 2014 00:17] by Moderator

Re: FEEDBACK - Community Rollout Plan for JA:F[message #338184] Wed, 10 December 2014 04:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Shanga

 
Messages:3517
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
http://i.imgur.com/guG9AKZ.jpg

Sorry, I couldn't help myself posting this little gem. Because Steam...nvm...

This game will have no chance if we as a community stand legs crossed and watch trolls like above getting the game stomped on. If we let the Steam trolls win this ratings battle, we as a community, have failed miserably. And the whole crowd-funding and community plan and modding talks are for nothing.

We need a plan and we need to execute it. Pick a minimum of 5-10 positive reviews on Steam you agree with and upvote them. Write your own review, even if it's just a simple 7/10 rating. We need to give JA:F a chance, because there will be no game to mod unless we can come up with something to balance the hate. Devs are doing what they're are expected to do - keep working on features and fixes. It's up to us to fight the trolls.

But this deserves a detailed plan so for now..carry on, we need more ideas for the poll.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 December 2014 14:52] by Moderator



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