Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » Rebuilt Omerta (Constantly rebuilding & reinhabitating Omerta)
Rebuilt Omerta[message #339243] Wed, 04 February 2015 05:14 Go to next message
ATigersClaw

 
Messages:130
Registered:October 2014
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Hi guys,

I think Omerta is too much of a dead city. It has been bombed and everybody left, that does make sense of course but people could return later on and build it back up. Maybe certain events could trigger Omerta to be rebuilt. I don't know the code and how the game loads the maps but thought I'd give it a try.

Example

1. Two towns captured (not counting Omerta) = 50 % of Omerta rebuilt and half of the population returned
2. Four towns captured (not counting Omerta) = 100 % of Omerta rebuilt and all of the population returned

[Updated on: Wed, 04 February 2015 19:33]




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Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339250 is a reply to message #339243] Wed, 04 February 2015 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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We already have separate sectors, so we'd only need code to switch a map the game has already accessed later on. It will likely require some hacks to dump any map modifications the player made (fun fact: just by entering a sector you already modify the map, because mercs stink!) and to make sure objects and people are not placed in walls or cliffs or stuff like that.

However, that obviously requires new alternate maps. Considering how few mappers we have, that is a serious obstacle (and don't think about asking smeagol for mapping this. That man has to create his bigmaps and not redo stock maps cheeky )



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Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339257 is a reply to message #339250] Wed, 04 February 2015 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ATigersClaw

 
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Registered:October 2014
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Flugente schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 12:28
We already have separate sectors, so we'd only need code to switch a map the game has already accessed later on. It will likely require some hacks to dump any map modifications the player made (fun fact: just by entering a sector you already modify the map, because mercs stink!) and to make sure objects and people are not placed in walls or cliffs or stuff like that.

However, that obviously requires new alternate maps. Considering how few mappers we have, that is a serious obstacle


Ok, so if I get you right, this is possible.
Omerta is not that big and I would dedicate some time to rebuild the two stock sectors of it. The thing is, I've never ever used the map editor. Do you think it'd be possible for a "map editor newbie" to accomplish something like that?

Flugente schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 12:28
(and don't think about asking smeagol for mapping this. That man has to create his bigmaps and not redo stock maps cheeky )


I'd never keep smeagol from his big maps project. I can't wait until this gets finished some day. It's really great work.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 February 2015 15:43]




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Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339258 is a reply to message #339257] Wed, 04 February 2015 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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<strike>I might be interested in mapping this Omerta change -- however, the idea really isn't much except eye candy right now, and there won't be any battles there. Can we come up with a good reason to do new maps AND a reason for the Player to return to Omerta to see them?</strike>

Check out some other maps I've done to see if you want me to do it: http://arulco.blogspot.com/p/cartography.html

I'll be doing a remake of most, if not all, of the vanilla maps anyway . . . time permitting.

Sorry about that first paragraph -- I'm old enough to know not to post until after my first cup of coffee in the morning . . . of course, returning to Omerta to recruit Miguel & Co..

[Updated on: Wed, 04 February 2015 16:16]





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Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339259 is a reply to message #339258] Wed, 04 February 2015 17:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ATigersClaw

 
Messages:130
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edmortimer schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 15:02
<strike>I might be interested in mapping this Omerta change -- however, the idea really isn't much except eye candy right now, and there won't be any battles there. Can we come up with a good reason to do new maps AND a reason for the Player to return to Omerta to see them?</strike>

I thought about that too. Different things could be placed there to keep the player's focus in Omerta.

Examples
  • Existing merchants could be moved there (e. g. one of the merchants from Cambria (Keith or Perko)).
  • RPCs who only become available later in the game could spawn there (e. g. Iggy from San Mona).
  • Quests could start there (e. g. Martha & missing son Joey from Cambria, who is then found in San Mona, which is also a close distance.).
  • The Rebels could finally move their commando base from the basement to a normal building.
  • NPCs appearing randomly in certain sectors could just be added to another sector in Omerta (e. g. Hamous or Mickey).
  • Santos Brothers (Herve, Manny, Peter, Alberto, Carlo) wouldn't have to be "just" quintuplets but could have another brother making them sextuplets*.
*Yes, it's sextuplets, not sixtuplets.

I'm pretty sure that there are different more or minor complex people and/or events, that can be moved to Omerta or additionally add Omerta as a location.

edmortimer schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 15:02
Check out some other maps I've done to see if you want me to do it: http://arulco.blogspot.com/p/cartography.html

I like it a lot. You've kept the feeling of the stock maps but enhanced them with features to make it more versatile. The thing is, I'm not responsible for deciding that.

edmortimer schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 15:02
I'll be doing a remake of most, if not all, of the vanilla maps anyway . . . time permitting.

That sounds good to me. I'll try to teach me some mapping with the map editor as well pretty soon.

edmortimer schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 15:02
Sorry about that first paragraph -- I'm old enough to know not to post until after my first cup of coffee in the morning . . . of course, returning to Omerta to recruit Miguel & Co..

Well, who wouldn't do that but I see what you mean. Besides the rebels there is no use for Omerta right now. That's what initially made me get the idea.



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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339260 is a reply to message #339259] Wed, 04 February 2015 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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I like your ideas for expanding the usability of Omerta -- and that was what I meant. Specifically, setting up a new merchant (a construction shop? buy fortification supplies?) would be easier and cleaner (code-wise), or even just a new Facility like a repair shop.

I wanted to do something with the Omerta maps, and thought there should be a couple-three more people around, at least -- especially once the food situation is better for them (after the first quest).

I realize neither of us are responsible for adding anything to the official release, but we can always make a player mod, and if it's good enough and enough people like it then it'll find it's way into the game for everybody. So . . . I'll start thinking about Omerta . . . along with the other things I'm tweaking at the moment.




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Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339262 is a reply to message #339260] Wed, 04 February 2015 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ATigersClaw

 
Messages:130
Registered:October 2014
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edmortimer schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 17:21
I like your ideas for expanding the usability of Omerta -- and that was what I meant. Specifically, setting up a new merchant (a construction shop? buy fortification supplies?) would be easier and cleaner (code-wise), or even just a new Facility like a repair shop.

These are all good ideas. I'm pretty sure we'll figure something out that adds value and makes players visit Omerta again.

edmortimer schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 17:21
I wanted to do something with the Omerta maps, and thought there should be a couple-three more people around, at least -- especially once the food situation is better for them (after the first quest).

That sounds good. Establishing the food supply route to Drassen could be the first trigger for rebuilding and reinhabitating Omerta.

edmortimer schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 17:21
I realize neither of us are responsible for adding anything to the official release, but we can always make a player mod, and if it's good enough and enough people like it then it'll find it's way into the game for everybody. So . . . I'll start thinking about Omerta . . . along with the other things I'm tweaking at the moment.

If you don't mind, keep me up to date with your thoughts in this thread.



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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339268 is a reply to message #339262] Wed, 04 February 2015 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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Well . . . I did make a FACILITY for Omerta -- The Rebel Base, station someone (a snitch) there to coordinate the revolution with the Rebels . . . could be good for you, could be bad for you . . . depending on who you pick. It's in my Facilities download, but here it is:

Quote:
<FACILITYTYPE>
<ubIndex>36</ubIndex>
<szFacilityName>Rebel Base</szFacilityName>
<szFacilityShortName>Base</szFacilityShortName>
<ubTotalStaffLimit>1</ubTotalStaffLimit>
<ASSIGNMENT>
<ubAssignmentType>SPREAD_PROPAGANDA_GLOBAL</ubAssignmentType>
<szTooltipText>Organizing the revolution from the Rebel Base can help secure the loyalty of the people in the countryside, or alienate them completely. Be careful who you select for the job, gringo.</szTooltipText>
<ubStaffLimit>1</ubStaffLimit>
<usPerformance>86</usPerformance>
<CONDITIONS>
<ubMinimumLoyaltyHere>86</ubMinimumLoyaltyHere>
</CONDITIONS>
<LOYALTY_LOCAL>
<ubChance>42</ubChance>
<bBaseEffect>0</bBaseEffect>
<ubRange>3</ubRange>
</LOYALTY_LOCAL>
<LOYALTY_GLOBAL>
<ubChance>42</ubChance>
<bBaseEffect>0</bBaseEffect>
<ubRange>2</ubRange>
</LOYALTY_GLOBAL>
<MORALE>
<ubChance>42</ubChance>
<bBaseEffect>0</bBaseEffect>
<ubRange>6</ubRange>
</MORALE>
</ASSIGNMENT>
</FACILITYTYPE>

[Updated on: Wed, 04 February 2015 22:48]





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Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339270 is a reply to message #339268] Thu, 05 February 2015 04:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ATigersClaw

 
Messages:130
Registered:October 2014
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
edmortimer schrieb am Mi, 04 Februar 2015 21:13
Well . . . I did make a FACILITY for Omerta -- The Rebel Base, station someone (a snitch) there to coordinate the revolution with the Rebels . . . could be good for you, could be bad for you . . . depending on who you pick. It's in my Facilities download, but here it is:


I've never done anything like that, so it's good that you do this part.
Right now, I'm trying to rebuild Omerta (A9) in three different stages. I'm staying true to the stock 1.13 maps. We'll see what my first attempts with the map editor will create.



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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339275 is a reply to message #339270] Thu, 05 February 2015 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Registered:April 2009
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2 points for your consideration:
Quests should not be broken for obvious reasons (unless that is the intention in some cases). This means that a quest-NPC has to be present in alternate maps too. This leads to the problem that a NPC might have already gone in the 'original' map, but would reappear if a new map is loaded (Fatima in A9 would be an example). Don't know the exact code, but it should likely be possible to forbid NPCs from reappearing, depending on quest-state. However, you should still provide them in your maps. Analyzing the original map for NPCs and then overlaying them into alternate maps simply isn't practical.

If an item should be present in both maps (like, say, a gun in a chest that exists in both maps), this will lead to the ability to take it two times. This is bad (or not, depending on your intention). The only solution I can think of atm would be to, upon replacing old with new map, loop over both inventories, detect whether an item exists in the original inventory at the right coordinates, and then place or not place the item in the new map. This is a really, REALLY ugly solution. Would definetely not recommend.

Anyway, this is just food for thoughts. Whoever codes that will likely have better insight.

[Updated on: Thu, 05 February 2015 13:28]




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Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339277 is a reply to message #339275] Thu, 05 February 2015 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ATigersClaw

 
Messages:130
Registered:October 2014
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Flugente schrieb am Do, 05 Februar 2015 12:27
Quests should not be broken for obvious reasons (unless that is the intention in some cases). This means that a quest-NPC has to be present in alternate maps too. This leads to the problem that a NPC might have already gone in the 'original' map, but would reappear if a new map is loaded (Fatima in A9 would be an example). Don't know the exact code, but it should likely be possible to forbid NPCs from reappearing, depending on quest-state. However, you should still provide them in your maps. Analyzing the original map for NPCs and then overlaying them into alternate maps simply isn't practical.

I just started on A9 and won't touch any NPCs at all for right now. Yesterday was my first mapping day ever, so I keep it simple and just focus on rebuilding Omerta step by step.

Flugente schrieb am Do, 05 Februar 2015 12:27
If an item should be present in both maps (like, say, a gun in a chest that exists in both maps), this will lead to the ability to take it two times. This is bad (or not, depending on your intention). The only solution I can think of atm would be to, upon replacing old with new map, loop over both inventories, detect whether an item exists in the original inventory at the right coordinates, and then place or not place the item in the new map. This is a really, REALLY ugly solution. Would definetely not recommend.

Ok, I think that of the few items to be found in the original A9 none needs to be present in the alternate maps.

[Updated on: Thu, 05 February 2015 17:44]




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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339278 is a reply to message #339275] Thu, 05 February 2015 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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Yes, those are all very important considerations and at this moment are beyond my knowledge of the maps. That is why in my map tweaks I am only adding/changing terrain and items, and not touching characters. I'd like to learn how to mod characters, both new and old, but I haven't gotten there yet. ATM I'm having a devil of a time figuring out how exactly the IMP Inventory works, as it doesn't seem to follow the guidelines when it has a lot of stuff to pick from. That it puts things in pockets that can't hold the items isn't a problem -- once in the game you can move them into correct pockets (I've only had one freeze-up because of wrong things in wrong pockets, and that was a canteen of all things).




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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339279 is a reply to message #339278] Thu, 05 February 2015 20:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
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If this idea should be done the coder would need to make sure not to mess with items on the map. The player can place items in any sector. These should stay where they are.


edmortimer wrote on Thu, 05 February 2015 16:12
ATM I'm having a devil of a time figuring out how exactly the IMP Inventory works, as it doesn't seem to follow the guidelines when it has a lot of stuff to pick from.


IMP items are distributed in this order (new trait system):
  • Default Items - always all
  • Random Items - random selection
  • Sidearm (new in r7722) - random selection
  • Attributes - all attribute level based selection:
    Wisdom
    Marksmanship
    Medical
    Mechanical
    Explosive
    Agility
    Dexterity
    Strength
    Health
    Leadership
  • Major Traits - all random selection:
    Auto Weapons
    Heavy Weapons
    Sniper
    Ranger
    Gunslinger
    Martial Arts
    Squad Leader
    Technician
    Doctor
    Covert Ops
  • Minor Traits - all random selection:
    Ambidextrous
    Melee
    Throwing
    Night Ops
    Stealth
    Athletics
    Bodybuilding
    Demolition
    Teaching
    Scouting
    Radio Operator



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Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339281 is a reply to message #339279] Thu, 05 February 2015 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ATigersClaw

 
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silversurfer schrieb am Do, 05 Februar 2015 19:25
If this idea should be done the coder would need to make sure not to mess with items on the map. The player can place items in any sector. These should stay where they are.


Items which were stored earlier in Omerta should of course remain there after the map change but what exactly do you mean with "not to mess with items on the map"? I'm all new to this. Can I remove the few items placed on the original map and can I add new items at all?

[Updated on: Thu, 05 February 2015 21:17]




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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339283 is a reply to message #339281] Thu, 05 February 2015 22:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
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ATigersClaw wrote on Thu, 05 February 2015 20:12
silversurfer schrieb am Do, 05 Februar 2015 19:25
If this idea should be done the coder would need to make sure not to mess with items on the map. The player can place items in any sector. These should stay where they are.


Items which were stored earlier in Omerta should of course remain there after the map change but what exactly do you mean with "not to mess with items on the map"? I'm all new to this. Can I remove the few items placed on the original map and can I add new items at all?

I have no idea. I just don't want to find my stuff missing or replaced by something else all of the sudden.



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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339284 is a reply to message #339279] Thu, 05 February 2015 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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Thanks for the list.

Specifically the problem I'm having is that not all (24) of the Default items are being given out, and sometimes there's doubles given of a specific item. The items in question are Frag Grenade, Colt 1911 Hi-Cap, & Equipment Pouch. These three items are giving me fits as sometimes the first two mentioned above are assigned, sometimes not, and once doubled for one IMP and none for the other IMP. Sometimes it won't give the Colt 1911 but does give the ammo (which isn't in the file, so the game engine thinks it has given out the gun and is giving out the traditional couple of magazines for it) The Equipment Pouches are always given out multiple times . . . I've run a couple dozen IMP creations through and get different results each time, but these are consistent glitches.

There is space for everything, however the game engine doesn't put things in the right pockets. It'll put a rifle in a small pocket, for example, and never yet has put a grenade in a grenade pocket. That's not a problem actually, unless the game engine thinks there's no room for some items -- and that is why some items are left out. Is it possible the game engine has been set to a certain number of pockets, and my adding more by adding new LBE pockets doesn't register?

Is it possibly because I create more than one IMP all the time, and somehow the disbursement of items gets tangled between the IMPs? I'll try one IMP and see what happens. It's a tedious one to check and re-check because a new IMP has to be created each time, so the testing has gone slow.

On the plus side, the game engine does a nice job of attaching all the new LBE gear to the vest and backpacks.

Edit: OK, tried one IMP . . . same, same. Changed the order of the default items in the inventory . . . same, same. I have 4 frag grenades listed in Default, none were given. Put some neato revolvers in for Gunfighter, got the ammo but not the revolver. Getting the ammo indicates that a specific revolver was selected in the process because not all the revolvers I put in for Gunfighter use .454 ammo. However, it was not in the IMPs inventory, and there was plenty of room for it -- including two empty large revolver holsters (another doubling up of an item where there is but one defined).

I'm at a loss. Next I'll try deleting all the Attribute & Trait choices, and have only the Default and Random choices to see if that makes any difference because i don't remember having any of these problems when i didn't have Attribute & Trait choices defined.

[Updated on: Fri, 06 February 2015 06:40]





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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339289 is a reply to message #339284] Fri, 06 February 2015 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
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Nobody can say for sure what the problem is without your IMPItemChoices.xml. If you overload it with too many items it can cause problems with available slots. The standard 1.13 items don't cause these problems although the current IMPItemChoices.xml hands out quite a number of them.



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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339292 is a reply to message #339289] Fri, 06 February 2015 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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True. Here ya go. It's available online:

As I've been saying, there ARE plenty of open slots but they aren't being used.

http://arulco.blogspot.com/p/downloads.html

or, I guess I can paste it here . . . if anyone complains I'll delete it:
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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339294 is a reply to message #339292] Fri, 06 February 2015 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
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There simply isn't enough space for all those items. The game tries to distribute all of them but fails for some. Could also be because attachments of LBE are not available as pockets at that time but I'm not sure.
The lists seem overloaded anyway. Who runs around with two rifles and a pistol? Any merc who is not Superman will probably collapse on the spot. My merc was at 147%. big grin



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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339296 is a reply to message #339294] Fri, 06 February 2015 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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There's extra stuff to pass out to the hired help ASAP. Once I get into tweaking the hired helps' loadouts then this one will change. It's a WIP.

Well, that's what I was asking -- does the game engine recognize the new LBE pockets as pockets, and is the number of pockets the game engine expects to see in a limited range? Seems you're saying , yes, the game only knows so many pockets.




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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #339478 is a reply to message #339281] Tue, 17 February 2015 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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My first attempt at changing a map in the way we want did not work -- resulting in a hard crash that needed a hard reboot.

Caveat: I'm running Xubuntu 14.10 and running the game under WINE. However, I don't think that's the problem because otherwise the game is very stable -- I never have any stability/crash issues.

Changing maps isn't the problem. I can do that mid-game without problems. I do it all the time and the game remembers what items I've left there. But, and it's a BIG but, that is only when there are no IMPs or current controlled Mercs on-map. This test had player-controlled characters on-map -- which is a distinct possibility during gameplay as there might be someone stationed there. The game did not like that at all. It was immediately evident something was wrong as the screen stuttered, then the game crashed hard when I went to move a character.

It is not reasonable to instruct the Player to not have characters on a certain map at a certain stage in the game, so I do not see how we can accomplish this without code changes -- which won't happen.

Of course, I could be wrong. How have your tests worked?




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Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #343640 is a reply to message #339478] Tue, 05 January 2016 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ATigersClaw

 
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Has there been any progression on this topic for a rebuilt version of Omerta so far?



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Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Rebuilt Omerta[message #343641 is a reply to message #343640] Tue, 05 January 2016 23:29 Go to previous message
edmortimer

 
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No, not as an alternate map that appears during the game -- that needs coding work that nobody is prepared to do.




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