Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab  » RPG decisions
RPG decisions[message #344666] Wed, 23 March 2016 01:40 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3165
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
There aren't that many choices to make in the game, and often these decisions can be evaded or delayed. My (not totally thought-to-the-end) idea is that sometimes, the game forces us to make a decision. We have to decide how to do something in the moment.

A quick demo pic:
http://i.imgur.com/blXdLPe.png

In this case, the idea is that ins several sectors the enemy also has non-combatants that are nevertheless hostile to us. Like
  • radar technicians in SAM sites
  • army employees at the barracks
  • prison staff in prisons
  • scientists in Orta
  • attendants at the circus
  • airport staff
  • etc. etc. There are quite a few possibilities, come to think of it.
Now, the idea is that after we take a sector, if these people are around, we have to decide what to do with them. This can be somewhat different each time - we basically get an event out of a number of predefined events. In this case, there are enemy technicians, and one of them panics and now has a gun.

If you know the game FTL (an you should, because it's awesome), then you'll understand the above pic. The screen describes the situation, and now our 'party' has to take a decision. Each decision has several outcomes. If we simply talk to the guy, we might get him to surrender - he might also open fire at us. You don't know the outcome, you have to decide what to do and adapt.
The white options are always possible, not depending on the party.
The blue options are special options we only get because of special properties of our party. Most of the time, these will be better in some way than the standard options.

For example, option 1. has the danger of the technician shooting back at us.
Option 4., however, has a higher chance of taking him out without him retaliating - granted to us because Raven, trained in assault tactics (derived from her background <ap_assault> bonus), fires a snap shot.
Similar, because Mouse is trained in Covert Ops and currently disguised as an enemy soldier, she can confuse the guy with Option 6. This would lead to another set of options, but we'd get a bonus against the guy because he is now confused.

Depending on what we decide and what happens, different outcomes are possible, with positive and/or negative results.

Gunning the guy down might lead to a fight in which we are wounded. It might lower loyalty in Balime, because we shot an unarmed royalist - it might also raise loyalty in liberated Drassen, because they see everyone working for the queen as an enemy.
If we talk to him, we might be able to make him a prisoner. Or he might actually join us as a volunteer. Or perhaps we allow him to leave if he pays an administration fee?

Of course, this would also be possible at other times and not be restricted on the above situation, this is just an example.

To me, this seems like a worthwhile idea (though I may regret this, as setting up all the decision trees in a way that allows modding them will be no small task). Anyway, I'd welcome feedback and opinions, both for and against this.



Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: RPG decisions[message #344667 is a reply to message #344666] Wed, 23 March 2016 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Panzer

 
Messages:82
Registered:February 2016
Location: Altis, Sometimes Tanoa
kinda love and hate. on the love end, could be awesome. on the other side, might not be great for JA2.



I have no Wife, Children, or real Job. This also means I have 24 hours a day and 7 days a week to think of a rebuttal. You have been warned.

"I got another problem: I am being overrun by Dinosaur Nazis on Hoverboards!" -Ravenhugger

"Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? He's a mile away - and you've got his shoes!" - Unknown Criminal
Re: RPG decisions[message #344668 is a reply to message #344666] Wed, 23 March 2016 02:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CVB

 
Messages:136
Registered:September 2014
Location: Berlin
Awesome idea! I've always felt that the RPG aspect of JA2 got the short stick compared to the many tactical and management enhancements of 1.13. I like to have moral dilemmas in a game.
And getting a moddable decision tree would open up so many new possibilities...
Just a couple off-the-cuff ideas: if this feature would also extend to neutral civ(group)s AND if decisions and consequences could include giving and receiving items and/or depend on game events, we suddenly would have a quest engine, and generic merchants, and some of the outside players you proposed here.
For example, handing a video found in Tixa dungeon (showing torture of political prisoners) to a reporter could result in an arms embargo, delaying the delivey of new tanks for the ASD. Or one of the terrorists could turn the tables and offer a bounty on Carmen Dancio's head.
A random element might be included in the results, enhancing replayability



Peace is a purely theoretical state of affairs whose existence we deduce because there have been intervals between wars.
J. Pournelle
Re: RPG decisions[message #344669 is a reply to message #344666] Wed, 23 March 2016 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:856
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
Quote:
To me, this seems like a worthwhile idea (though I may regret this, as setting up all the decision trees in a way that allows modding them will be no small task). Anyway, I'd welcome feedback and opinions, both for and against this.


It would be a monumental task. It could add a very creative old-school RPG element that enhances game play, deepens Player immersion, and adds depth to the characters. But if not done thoroughly and creatively it could very well just add a very trite aspect to the game that detracts from the whole.

My take is that it would need, as CVB suggests, consequences -- good and bad. Consequences that alter the story without losing the story. Consequences could range from simple morale, loyalty, & reputation bonuses and penalties to game-changing events such as making it easier or harder to recruit certain individuals (like Vince) or making it impossible for certain individuals to work with you (like Madlab), and, as CVB suggests new quests and new story lines.






Arulco Vacations Blog

Arulco Vacations Bears Pit Forum


Re: RPG decisions[message #344675 is a reply to message #344669] Wed, 23 March 2016 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Randok

 
Messages:302
Registered:March 2004
Location: Poland
IMHO JA2 is a fighting game and tactics. Conversations (short and concise) are needed only for the storyline, to perform tasks.



Many thanks to all those who make new features for Jagged Alliance 2.

New mod + new map (JA2 map with Drassen, Omerta, Cambria etc, edited or not-it has been repeatedly ) with large sectors + two additional levels + a lot of new tileset + moving vehicles = fun for months, years. Fun with creation, fun playing this mod.
Re: RPG decisions[message #344680 is a reply to message #344675] Wed, 23 March 2016 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Panzer

 
Messages:82
Registered:February 2016
Location: Altis, Sometimes Tanoa
this seems like a good idea for a quest engine like CVB said, until(/if ever) we have some voice actors in these forums.



I have no Wife, Children, or real Job. This also means I have 24 hours a day and 7 days a week to think of a rebuttal. You have been warned.

"I got another problem: I am being overrun by Dinosaur Nazis on Hoverboards!" -Ravenhugger

"Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? He's a mile away - and you've got his shoes!" - Unknown Criminal
Aw: Re: RPG decisions[message #344683 is a reply to message #344680] Wed, 23 March 2016 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ATigersClaw

 
Messages:130
Registered:October 2014
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
I for my part love games like the Baldur's Gate series with dialogue klicking and stuff but my first impression is, that this type of gameplay doesn't fit the JA series. I'm kinda undecided so far.
The micromanagement part of 1.13 is very complex and time-consuming. Adding the deeper rpg elements on top of the existing micromanagement would overload this game for me ... but then I also think that the individual milita feature is too much as well, so this is just my personal opinion.

One thing I do like is CVB's idea of adding more events to the game like the examples he mentioned of the Tixa video or Carmen's bounty but integrated into the current event system. Imho that would be a great addition without overloading the game too much.

Overall I love most of the features that have been added to 1.13 over the years, but I also think that at some point the game shouldn't become more complex. So rather than quantity in terms of functions, I'd prefer working on quality in terms of e. g. usability of the game. This is another discussion though.
Re: Aw: Re: RPG decisions[message #344686 is a reply to message #344683] Wed, 23 March 2016 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Can't say no to a reason to bring more psychos into the fray. Scare tactics to the max!
"God damn it, I thought you'd save us from the queen. You're just like her!"

Let the Balime pillaging commence! big grin

Wouldn't mind writing some dialog lines for this. Send me a note if you want some help.

[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2016 21:30]




1.13: Install JA2, unpack latest, play.
AIMNAS: Complete 1.13 installation, Download ZIP and unpack, play.

Re: Aw: Re: RPG decisions[message #344984 is a reply to message #344683] Sun, 10 April 2016 17:11 Go to previous message
CVB

 
Messages:136
Registered:September 2014
Location: Berlin
ATigersClaw wrote on Wed, 23 March 2016 18:49
One thing I do like is CVB's idea of adding more events to the game like the examples he mentioned of the Tixa video or Carmen's bounty but integrated into the current event system.


I guess everyone would prefer to work within one event system, but given that the quest engine is one of the very few game elements that was never touched for externalization in more than a decade, the chances might be slim. So I'm willing to take what I can get...



Peace is a purely theoretical state of affairs whose existence we deduce because there have been intervals between wars.
J. Pournelle
Previous Topic: Radio expansion
Next Topic: Split extended ear
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Fri Nov 24 18:34:48 EET 2017

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00994 seconds