Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » [Idea] Stats and Skills Rework
[Idea] Stats and Skills Rework[message #345121] Mon, 18 April 2016 13:02 Go to next message

Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Okay, this is probably a holy cow... nevertheless a new idea regarding Stats and Skills. It's still only a very rough idea that certainly could use some fine tuning here and there, but hear me out.

As you all know, we have some well defined Stats (Agi, Dex, Str, Ldr and Wis) and Skills (Mrk, Mec, Exp, Med) at the moment to evaluate the capabilities of our mercs (of course in addition to Experience Level and Health).

However, I find especially the Skills sometimes lacking in some regards. Should someone who knows how to aim a firearm have the same CtH when throwing a knife/grenade? Is someone who can fix items really as good in picking locks? How about melee attacks? And so on...

My idea ow is to actually up the number of skills (not necessarily stats... though one could even go the Fallout route and add in something like Luck/Karma or as in Sacred something like a survival bonus as an additional Stat). Anyways... my suggestion for new stats:

Used for non-firearm ranged attacks (grenades, throwing knives, rocks, baseballs...). There are some mercs who are considered expert knife throwers or grenade lobbers. You might argue that we do have a throwing trait. Yes, but we also have a marksman/sniper trait for even better aiming, as well (the same argument can obviously be made for some of the following skills as well, and the answer would always be the same, I guess).

Of course there's always Strength, Dexterity and Agility to govern how good someone will be in melee... but having a distinct value here would help evaluate if someone is actually any good brawling, knife fighting, wielding a sword or trench mace (yes, still lacks animation... I keep dreaming). Also someone who has great dexterity doesn't necessarily have to be a good melee fighter (imagine someone like Trevor... great Dex, good Str and good Agi... much of a melee fighter? I doubt it... at least not from the get go).

Lock Picking
As said above... knowing how to repair a gun doesn't make you an expert burglar. I doubt, however, that some of the great burglars would be great gunsmiths (like Jimmy or Magic). Having to different values would be useful.

Situational Awareness
Spotters would obviously profit from this. Also could be used for tracking, interrupts, hearing, etc.

Huh? Why would need such a skill... Jagged Alliance is all about shooting people, no?
Well, sort of yes... but the more things got added lately, the more need is for a more strategic skill. Someone has to do the paper work after all. Could be used as a requirement for certain facilities or make some assignments (like get item) more efficient. At the moment we use Wisdom and Leadership for certain staff assignments (like increased mine output for example). Having such as skill could add some reason for the second row mercs to get hired (Carp, Flo, etc...). High wisdom alone doesn't necessarily mean you know how to do bookkeeping work. And I don't know if Leadership really helps in some of the staff assignments either.

Having more skills in addition to the existing traits would of course also mean that your mercs can learn to become better at melee fighting, throwing, picking locks, etc, but the traits would still retain their usefulness (as you'd have certain real experts).

Now you could ask where should all these stats show up? There is so little space in the merc statistics...

Yes, but adding in a button that switches between the two sets of stats and skills should be rather easy. A simple mouse click on the menu area and voila... switched statistics. Should be doable, no?

So... what do you think of the idea?

Overcomplicating things?

Great roleplaying addition?

Missing out on some skills?

Even more new stats?

How about the idea of luck / survival bonus (sort of like an emergency "get out of jail" card for mercs who served a long time in Arulco... could be useful for Ironman players... if Luck is high enough you get a chance to lower damage from a hit for example, but then your Luck stat drops down instead... sounds a bit like a protection shield, that would not always be "on"... don't know... just a random thought)?

Re: [Idea] Stats and Skills Rework[message #345125 is a reply to message #345121] Mon, 18 April 2016 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
There is much room for improvement in the Stats & Skills area, and your ideas are one way to address them and give added depth to the characters, as well as finetune abilities. I don't know how messy it would be to code, but I do think this would be a good addition.

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Re: [Idea] Stats and Skills Rework[message #345126 is a reply to message #345121] Mon, 18 April 2016 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
my 2 cents:
From an Role-playing perspective, everything you said made sense.. When I dealt with game mechanics for an RP game, our general list would end up 8-10 stats, then about 100 skills.. obviously that would go a bit too far.

Within the limits of JA2, with what it is supposed to be a tactical Role-play with an Operational overlay, I'd say it would be too much. its probably what should have been built 12 years ago as a spin-off RP version.

What I do think could be done within the existing would be to add Situational awareness as some kinda perception stat. Then all the hearing, sighting, etc.. could be adjusted based on the stat not on tiles..

I'd love to see a logistics skill as well, maybe have it deal with how long it takes equipment to move from place to place, expanding the move item options or some such. I think breaking out lock-picking or throwing etc.. would be duplicating what the skills and backgrounds already have done, and while a good idea for an RPG not so positive for the tactical side.

Re: [Idea] Stats and Skills Rework[message #345134 is a reply to message #345126] Tue, 19 April 2016 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Maybe an attack skill for heavy weapons would be need as well.

This way we'd have a total of 10 skills which would neatly fit on one display page.



Throwing could even influence base range of thrown weapons.

100 skills might be a bit excessive, though...

There are obviously a lot more possibilities for new skills (driving, swimming, survival/foraging, tracking, etc...), but having covered the most common options would be a good start imo. And let's think about it... what do mercs do the most?

- fire guns MRK
- fire mortars/RPGs/GLs HVY
- throw grenades / throw knives THR
- punch people with fists or slice them with weapons MEL
- spot and interrupt enemies or spot hidden stuff PER

- repair damaged guns and other items MEC
- pick locks LOC(not that often... more often doors get bashed in or exploded anyways... maybe picking locks needs to be a bit more important again)
- plant or disarm bombs EXP
- apply bandages, do surgery and heal mercs MED
- do facility related work LOG

- run around (obviously not covered by one of the skills)
- sneak (covered by AGI)
- swim (?)
- drive cars (?)
- hide in camo (?)

- interact with NPCs (LDR)
- train militia (LDR)

So yeah, there are a few more possibilities for even more skills... maybe perception is also better as a stat (which would free up a skill slot)... maybe a combination of Hide/Sneak as a separate skill... Hmmm...

Re: [Idea] Stats and Skills Rework[message #345139 is a reply to message #345134] Tue, 19 April 2016 20:22 Go to previous message

Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
I always thought LDR was a skill, so.. if we consider that PER would be the 5th Stat, (no freeing if we swap, but probably more balanced since stats upgrade slower than skills).
run and swim end up in the same position, for another game you might want them, but for this game you'd end up having to redo the whole movement system to really make a skill of them worth having.
Camo would be good in many ways, but since we already do so much with gear.
Sneak again hits the issue of whats already in game, without building our own engine it seem to overlap so much already included i'd worry we would cause more problems that we could fix.
driving- logical but how much driving do we actually do? some supply runs moving gear depots forward?

I've looked back into a few games and I keep running into the same issue.. unless we really changed the engine to make a lot more things skill check based (think more fallout 3), I think it would end up breaking away from the feel of JA2.
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