Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Combat/Weapon Academy » Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments (As above)
Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345792] Thu, 02 June 2016 19:12 Go to next message
Mercent
Messages:2
Registered:May 2016
Dear all, i am having a blast playing ja2 1.13 but as i progress, i find that the going gets tougher, especially if i don't pay attention to the weapons states.

So, i decided to take a good look at them but as i was playing around with the attachments and looking at how they change the various stats, i find that the Max Aiming Level of the weapons changes randomly. For instance, when i slap a 7x scope onto a Colt Commando, it gives a +3 to Max Aiming Level; i took the scope off, the value returns to original as expected but after putting it back on again, strangely, the scope now no longer gives a +3 penalty. I tried the same thing with an AR Silencer and the same occured. What is going on here? Anyone else is seeing this? This seems to occur when there are many attachments on the weapon (perhaps causing the data crunching to chase its tail?).

Any help would be appreciated!

Regards.
Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345793 is a reply to message #345792] Thu, 02 June 2016 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:132
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
I noticed it as well, if it is a bug is a bit annoying since allowed aiming level is a important stat. I noticed the aiming level will change even adding/removing a folding stock for example that normally should not change that.
Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345797 is a reply to message #345793] Thu, 02 June 2016 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2207
Registered:May 2009
When you attach/remove attachments that affect the allowed scope modes the current scope mode can change. The stats that are displayed are for the current scope mode so this is not a bug.

Also the folding stock changes allowed aim levels. The item properties reflect that.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345802 is a reply to message #345797] Fri, 03 June 2016 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mercent
Messages:2
Registered:May 2016
Thankyou all for your replies. @silver Now that you mentioned it, the targeting method of the Merc did indeed change as i change the attachment; they change their grip from scope to hip-firing when i attach a silencer on.

A seperate question: is there a way to decrease the Max Aiming Levels? I agree with Ratpaz that it is a bloody important stat. Anyway to see the Max Aiming Levels of a gun when window shopping at Bobby Ray's?
Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345804 is a reply to message #345802] Fri, 03 June 2016 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2207
Registered:May 2009
A reflex sight decreases max aim levels. Also certain traits can decrease aim levels of trait related weapons. Therefore it is important to use the proper weapons for a merc.
Some mods may have more items that decrease aim levels.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345807 is a reply to message #345797] Fri, 03 June 2016 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:132
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
silversurfer wrote on Thu, 02 June 2016 21:47

Also the folding stock changes allowed aim levels. The item properties reflect that.


Never really noticed folding stock incresae aim levels
but folding stock give +1 in aiming levels why is signed in red like it's a malus? should not be green?

http://s33.postimg.org/rbudyqahr/Image1.jpg
Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345808 is a reply to message #345807] Fri, 03 June 2016 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3779
Registered:July 2009
Nope, the lower the better.



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Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345809 is a reply to message #345808] Fri, 03 June 2016 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:132
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
Now i'm really confused, when you attach a folding stock to a weapon you get +1 aiming level and of course it's green cause is a bonus, even the description box say higher is better.
http://s33.postimg.org/kda0og5nj/Image3.jpg

[Updated on: Fri, 03 June 2016 19:50]

Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345810 is a reply to message #345809] Fri, 03 June 2016 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2207
Registered:May 2009
You are using OCTH? In that case higher is indeed better and the retractable stock should decrease aim levels by one point. Looks like a bug.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345811 is a reply to message #345810] Fri, 03 June 2016 23:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:132
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
Yes i'm using OCTH
Also i noticed every scope increase aiming levels, the bonus is exactly the same of folding stock, reported as positive bonus but in red (like a malus) in the scope description
http://s33.postimg.org/sbpeiz4bj/Image6.jpg

that become green as a bonus when attached to a weapon.
http://s33.postimg.org/ogm0gel5r/Image2.jpg


Also there is a cap to 8 to the aiming levels? a sniper scope is supposed to give a bonus of 3 aiming levels, but let's say a sniper weapon have alredy 8 aiming levels without a scope
http://s33.postimg.org/3oar6lwgv/Image10.jpg


it is supposed to become 11 (8+3) with a sniper scope but instead it remain 8 (5+3)
http://s33.postimg.org/rwe4pyie7/Image9.jpg

The same cap seems to be applied with the marksman bonus that give +1 aiming levels to rifle weapons
instead to have 9 aiming levels we still have 8 (7+1)
http://s33.postimg.org/es6tiujkv/Image11.jpg


Talking about a folding stock, i don't see much use of it, for only a small bonus to get a weapon ready you get a 5% malus in the to hit modifier and now also a malus to the aiming levels?
Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345814 is a reply to message #345811] Sat, 04 June 2016 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2207
Registered:May 2009
This whole aim levels modifier story got me confused.

In NCTH the rule is that a low number of aim levels is good. The opposite is true for OCTH.
If we take a look at the guns in items.xml we can see that those with build in folding stock have "<AimLevels>1</AimLevels>".

Let's take the "SPAS-15" as an example:
  • 3 aim levels default
  • <AimLevels> is set to 1

So positive value can be taken directly for NCTH. There we get a final 4 aim levels (3 + 1 = 4).
With a fix to the current bug for OCTH the <AimLevels> value will be multiplied by -1. There we would get a final 2 aim levels (3 + 1 * -1 = 2).

If we take a look at sights we can see that a Reflex Sight has <AimLevels> set to -1. This is also fine because -1 is good in NCTH and -1 * -1 = 1 is good in OCTH as well.

All good with this fix? No. Scopes have positive values for <AimLevels>. That means that they increase number of aim levels in NCTH (bad) and with the fix they will decrease number of aim levels in OCTH (also bad).
I could of course simply invert the values in items.xml to fix default 1.13. The positive values were wrong to start with anyway. This change would make scopes more powerful in NCTH (sniper rifles needed it). BUT all the scopes in mods will behave incorrectly until someone fixes their values.

Therefore I'm reluctant to implement the fix. Opinions?



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345815 is a reply to message #345814] Sat, 04 June 2016 00:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3779
Registered:July 2009
Just what caused the AL tags to be applied to OCTH anyway? Weren't they supposed to be NCTH only and the dynamic aim levels in OCTH worked on more global principles?
Also, the scopes are supposed to slow down aiming in exchange for their precision, the positive values are correct and intended.



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Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345816 is a reply to message #345815] Sat, 04 June 2016 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1386
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
DepressivesBrot wrote on Sat, 04 June 2016 02:39
Just what caused the AL tags to be applied to OCTH anyway? Weren't they supposed to be NCTH only and the dynamic aim levels in OCTH worked on more global principles?
Also, the scopes are supposed to slow down aiming in exchange for their precision, the positive values are correct and intended.

In OCTH, aim levels bonus for scopes depends on AimBonus value from items.xml
if ( sScopeBonus >= gGameExternalOptions.sVeryHighPowerScope ) 
{
	aimLevels *= 2;
}
else if ( sScopeBonus >= gGameExternalOptions.sHighPowerScope ) 
{
	aimLevels = (UINT8)((float)(aimLevels+1) * (float)1.5);
}
else if ( sScopeBonus >= gGameExternalOptions.sMediumPowerScope ) 
{
	aimLevels = (UINT8)((float)(aimLevels+1) * (float)1.3);
}
// Smaller scopes increase by one.
else if ( sScopeBonus > 0 )
{
	aimLevels++;
}

Maybe the source of the problem is some incorrect UDB displaying values in OCTH?



Stable 7609+fix | Stable 7609+AI (r563) | Win8+ fix | Additional content | Youtube channel


Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345817 is a reply to message #345814] Sat, 04 June 2016 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:132
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
Yea i think aiming levels is kinda buggy in OCTH i don't know in NCTH since never really played that mode, i don't get why a low aiming levels is good in NCTH while high is better in OCTH...it is confusing indeed, is there a way to make aiming levels the same for NCTH and OCTH?

If scopes in OCTH should really give a MALUS in aiming levels this explain why is so easy to reach this "cap" of 8.
A sniper weapon without attachments alredy have 8 aim levels and you can get 3 from a sniper scope and 2 more from marksman/sniper skills, so without this "cap" you can even reach 13 aiming levels! of course if a sniper scopes give -3 aiming levels (like it was supposed to be?) that will not happen.

Folding stocks like you say should give -1 aiming levels (OCTH) but instead they give +1, this will make folding stocks almost useless but that's another story...
Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345818 is a reply to message #345817] Sat, 04 June 2016 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1386
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
ratpaz wrote on Sat, 04 June 2016 02:59
Yea i think aiming levels is kinda buggy in OCTH i don't know in NCTH since never really played that mode, i don't get why a low aiming levels is good in NCTH while high is better in OCTH...it is confusing indeed, is there a way to make aiming levels the same for NCTH and OCTH?

If scopes in OCTH should really give a MALUS in aiming levels this explain why is so easy to reach this "cap" of 8.
A sniper weapon without attachments alredy have 8 aim levels and you can get 3 from a sniper scope and 2 more from marksman/sniper skills, so without this "cap" you can even reach 13 aiming levels! of course if a sniper scopes give -3 aiming levels (like it was supposed to be?) that will not happen.

Folding stocks like you say should give -1 aiming levels (OCTH) but instead they give +1, this will make folding stocks almost useless but that's another story...

To reach 8 aimclicks level in OCTH, you'll need a sniper rifle, a bipod and high power scope or medium scope and sniper trait:
else if (weaponType == GUN_SN_RIFLE && weaponRange > 500)
{
	maxAimForType = 8;
	aimLevels = 4;
	maxAimWithoutBipod = 3;
		// SANDRO - STOMP traits - Sniper bonus aim clicks
	if ( gGameOptions.fNewTraitSystem && HAS_SKILL_TRAIT( pSoldier, SNIPER_NT ) )
	{
		maxAimForType += (gSkillTraitValues.ubSNAimClicksAdded * NUM_SKILL_TRAITS( pSoldier, SNIPER_NT ));
		aimLevels += (gSkillTraitValues.ubSNAimClicksAdded * NUM_SKILL_TRAITS( pSoldier, SNIPER_NT ));
		maxAimWithoutBipod += (gSkillTraitValues.ubSNAimClicksAdded * NUM_SKILL_TRAITS( pSoldier, SNIPER_NT ));
	}
}

Stocks don't change aim levels in OCTH, only weapon type/shooter skills/used scope and bipod are important.



Stable 7609+fix | Stable 7609+AI (r563) | Win8+ fix | Additional content | Youtube channel


Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345825 is a reply to message #345815] Sat, 04 June 2016 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2207
Registered:May 2009
DepressivesBrot wrote on Fri, 03 June 2016 23:39
Just what caused the AL tags to be applied to OCTH anyway? Weren't they supposed to be NCTH only and the dynamic aim levels in OCTH worked on more global principles?
Also, the scopes are supposed to slow down aiming in exchange for their precision, the positive values are correct and intended.


Good questions. I did some research and indeed the <AimLevels> modifier was not present before NCTH. I wonder why somebody implemented the code to display this modifier in OCTH then...
*sigh* Looks like I have to do some code cleanup and restrict the AimLevels modifier to NCTH.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345827 is a reply to message #345825] Sat, 04 June 2016 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2207
Registered:May 2009
Ok, got rid of AimLevels bonus display for OCTH in revision 8247.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345831 is a reply to message #345827] Sat, 04 June 2016 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:132
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
Well aiming level is still working even if is not displayed correctly in OCTH
i'm getting 2 more aim click with gunfighter trait for example like it was supposed to be. Getting rid of that will not make some skills much less useful?
Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345832 is a reply to message #345831] Sat, 04 June 2016 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2207
Registered:May 2009
Traits will work like they used to. Only the <AimLevels> modifier from items will not be displayed anymore when playing with OCTH. They didn't have an effect anyway and were just confusing players like you and me. big grin



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Max Aiming Level changes randomly when adding attachments[message #345833 is a reply to message #345832] Sat, 04 June 2016 16:29 Go to previous message
ratpaz

 
Messages:132
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
Cool
Thank you =)
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