Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » JA2 Complete Mods & Sequels » JA2 Arulco Revisited » Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)
Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346651] Mon, 15 August 2016 04:18 Go to next message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
Playing expert ironman, day 4 2:16am. My team consists of two stacked IMPs (one ambidex gunfighter/squadleader (latter just for fun; although he is the highest level and technically of use I guess... didn't really see that coming) with scouting, night ops, radio operator (blocking reinforcements) and more 2ndary skills; plus one ranger/engineer (new repair system!)/paramedic also with a wild collection of 2ndary skills including night ops, here mainly for less sleep needed and more repair time, but it works for combat as well) and meltdown, fox, gary, grizzly, igor, hector and ira (ira is free and meltdown expensive, but the rest are as cheap as you can get them). everbody levelled up a few times by now, with RADIO being lvl 5 and the lowest level being shared at 3. I have 11 range pistols for everybody (including fox, who runs ambidex atm), SHOTGUN and igor have shotguns (which work much better than in 1.13!) and pretty much everyone has a rifle or other range 17+ weapon as well. Med and repair kits are working out so far. Some cooler weapons available as well, like a micro galil, but no ammo supply for it. Almost everybody does 9x19mm, which I have enough of. So far I have gone from omerta to san mona (where I rescued the girl), and subsequently explored a 1-range radius around san mona. I'll ambush another patrol (edit: see pic, going for those 16) before retiring to san mona again for daylight hours.

While I went from 1k to 21k the last few days (selling excess weapons to tony, retaining ammo - I work with 20% sell to locals, and without drop all as recommended) I realized this was largely due to the 10k I got from the quest and at this rate (I don't nearly make enough money to reach the almost 4k per day I need currently) I won't be able to rehire everybody for two more weeks once contracts are up like I did at startup (11 days remaing for everyone I need to pay), so the first mine is becoming a serious priority.

Which brings us to the drassen counterattack - this game was started with it enabled, and I'm assuming that can't be changed in a running game? I have my doubts that chitzena mine can supply enough money for both my hires as well as maintain militia... I figure defending chitzena is inherently easier than drassen with the counterattack, so at this stage my plan is to take chitzena mine and keep it "manually" (while being aware that other sectos may be lost continually resulting in low loyalty unless retaken), sweeping other sectors as needed and not train milita unless I can rest assured I got the money sorted out. How viable is this plan? With infrequent drops I'll probably still depend on tony for ammo needs, which is so far problematic for .45 ACP, 40 S&W and already 5.56x45mm. No 9x19mm for sale yet either btw, but there is enough loot.

Am I playing a losing game if I try to do the above? Any input welcome. How about I move to drassen but only take 3 out of 4 sectos, delaying the counter attack (does that even work)? Is the larger drassen mine income and presumed dimitri addition (as well as manuel from what I gather) plus presumably the skyrider quest a better course? Drassen seems better xp levels wise (both the food quest/getting dimitri and skyrider should level some guys up), but since I may depend on tony for ammo supplies, chitzena seems the better overall strategic location...

edit: pic of my current map: http://imgur.com/a/Pwc3a More pics or info if requested.

[Updated on: Mon, 15 August 2016 05:08]

Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346652 is a reply to message #346651] Mon, 15 August 2016 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:136
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
In the past i used to get Chitzena before Drassen, it worked pretty good,
your mercs are not that expensive so you should be able to mantein them
of course you may need to constantly sell weapons to Tony to balance the low income from Chetzena mine also you can get 15k more from boxing and you can also steal 20k from Kingpin...so you should have enough money for a while.
But since now with the latest releases every city have a major counter-attack, i usually go first to San Mona to complete some quests and make money then go directly to Drassen and get the airport sector and mine sector, but not the central sector, so i have access to 66% Drassen mine income and BR, this way i can avoid Drassen counter-attack until my squad is better equipped.

Of course since i haven't played AR yet, all my statements may be wrong.

[Updated on: Mon, 15 August 2016 10:31]

Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346655 is a reply to message #346652] Mon, 15 August 2016 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1666
Registered:December 2012
Location: Soviet Russia
Quote:
go directly to Drassen and get the airport sector and mine sector, but not the central sector, so i have access to 66% Drassen mine income and BR, this way i can avoid Drassen counter-attack until my squad is better equipped.

There is no airport in Drassen in AR.



7609+fix | 7609+AI (r790) | 7609 unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Vengeance:Reloaded | Youtube

"It's already "dog-eat-dog", friend. Not sure what worse a bunch of zombies could do."


Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346656 is a reply to message #346655] Mon, 15 August 2016 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
Is there really none at all, sevenfm? I read about the trigger for BR being estoni now, but I always assumed you could still ship to drassen once it was open. The map shows the airport tile in the usual place.
Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346657 is a reply to message #346656] Mon, 15 August 2016 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1666
Registered:December 2012
Location: Soviet Russia
gimmehints wrote on Tue, 16 August 2016 00:19
Is there really none at all, sevenfm? I read about the trigger for BR being estoni now, but I always assumed you could still ship to drassen once it was open. The map shows the airport tile in the usual place.

There is no "Drassen" in ShippingDestinations.xml in AR.



7609+fix | 7609+AI (r790) | 7609 unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Vengeance:Reloaded | Youtube

"It's already "dog-eat-dog", friend. Not sure what worse a bunch of zombies could do."


Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346671 is a reply to message #346657] Thu, 18 August 2016 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
Ouch! I just took chitzena mine at day 6 1am - but with 31 loyalty, I only get 224 dollars per day! Did AR change the mine income much? I mean I can already tell that even with 100% loyalty I won't be getting a measly 1k/day out of chitzena, not nearly enough to rehire my team that costs almost 4k at this moment. Considering there aren't enough weapon drops from enemies, I can't make that up with weapon sales, especially not when I also need to buy ammo... At this rate I don't really see how you could at all pay more than two, maybe three of the cheapest hires.

Is the mine income increase steadily when closing in on 100%, or can I expect a jump in there somewhere? If I can't, can I still adjust mine income in a running game?
Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346672 is a reply to message #346671] Thu, 18 August 2016 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2408
Registered:May 2009
Max mine income is set at game start so you can't change that during a game. Different mines produce different amounts of income and each value is randomized to some extend so mines will produce a slightly different amount at each new game. Also at higher difficulty levels mines produce lower income.
Chizena is the smallest mine you can have in 1.13 which produces the lowest income (ignoring San Mona which produces nothing). I don't know if that is also true in AR.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346673 is a reply to message #346672] Thu, 18 August 2016 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:136
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
As far as i know modifyng "MINE_INCOME_PERCENTAGE" value in JA2_Options.ini will works even on a running game.
Unfortunately this will raise the incomes of all mines...not only Chitzena.

[Updated on: Thu, 18 August 2016 10:46]

Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346674 is a reply to message #346651] Thu, 18 August 2016 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LatZee

 
Messages:93
Registered:December 2015
Chitzena mine gives the same money as in vanilla 1.13, don't forget that Chitzena has 4 sectors in AR instead of 2, so if you took only the mine, you get 1/4 of income instead of 1/2 (ignoring loyalty).
Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346676 is a reply to message #346674] Thu, 18 August 2016 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
LatZee wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 11:26
Chitzena mine gives the same money as in vanilla 1.13, don't forget that Chitzena has 4 sectors in AR instead of 2, so if you took only the mine, you get 1/4 of income instead of 1/2 (ignoring loyalty).



You know, I never made the connection that held sectors influenced what you get, I always thought it was straight loyalty only - even though I could tell that sometimes didn't work out... It's going to be more difficult to hold at least 3 if not 4 of the sectors (without milita, as I intend to try for financial reasons), but I'll try and play on and not reload an earlier save to try and head for drassen. I can only hope I get better weapon drops as well, so far I don't think I had more than one or two rifle drops, all other long weapons have been looted from sector containers IIRC. For example, got a colt 9mm and five pistols from 20 guys in chitzena mine only.

I'll take the rest of the city and see where my mine income stands then, thanks.

Edit: holding 4 sectors at 56% loyalty gives me very nearly 1.8k/day. If I roughly double it (=100%) I get 3.6k, that should be fairly workable with my setup.

[Updated on: Thu, 18 August 2016 20:28]

Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346677 is a reply to message #346672] Fri, 19 August 2016 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Enneagon

 
Messages:49
Registered:July 2016
Location: Latvia
silversurfer wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 09:58
Max mine income is set at game start so you can't change that during a game.


Well, in theory one can always hex edit savegame cheeky

(did that when in my second ever vanilla play Drassen run dry at end of second week or so, so decided to go and restore it)
Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346678 is a reply to message #346677] Fri, 19 August 2016 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
day 8, ~21:30. I'm about to take back the mine for the 4th time I think, and I get decent enough income from it, depending on when it's taken back (one day was at 9am, so money for the whole day...). However, long weapon drops are becoming semi-frequent (and I got my setup, so any new ones are for sale) and I just came back from San Mona where I sold a bunch and extended contracts for everyone except one to 20 days (remaining guy has 6 days left and costs 10k for two weeks, so that should work out as well. Pretty sure I can keep everyone paid. Both of my IMPs are level 6 and do the majority of killing, partly because there are too many elites for the lower level AIMs to get interrupts, partly to keep them low level so I can pay them.

However, sector C2 directly beneath the mine proves troublesome. It holds 40 soldiers and this number does not decrease whenever the city is taken back (and I can't fight during daylight, I'm getting mobbed and slaughtered). Is this a normal amount of soldiers heading for/being around chitzena, or should I be aware of a "soldier factory" that I need to take out?

Currently engaging 20 soldiers in the mine sector, then the city is clear again. I'm seriously considering attacking the 40 soldier sector right after and keep fleeing whenever I get breaklights hitting me - I don't see how else I can get rid of them otherwise, and I figured out that I can break off the attack by fleeing from the map edge, go to map, save and then cancel the movement, landing me right back in the sector and taking no time, but able to reposition... But I don't really like it much, seems like working around ironman mode :/

edit: successfully killed the 20, see the sector I mean here: http://imgur.com/a/jCdxf

[Updated on: Fri, 19 August 2016 06:20]

Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346688 is a reply to message #346678] Fri, 19 August 2016 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
I don't know what happened - I broke the 40 down in two parts and finally wiped them out, then attacked the SAM site with 18 enemies below. After about six unsuccessful tries, I abandoned the remaining 12 and went north again to chitzena and settled in for repair etc. Day comes, and the city is taken back in full, with me retreating to A1. At nightfall I head back on the attack, and the city is held by a total of 54 enemies in three sectors... where the hell did they come from?

edit: please note that this seemingly general question is specific to AR. Is it even realistic to hope thinning out the enemy enough so they won't be able to keep marching into chitzena every single day? I try to have my first attack as closely just after 9pm as possible (I rely heavily on gunfighters and the two shotgun guys - shotguns are much more effective than in 1.13 btw - so I get killed when engaged in light on range, but at night I can group up and take down what comes at me before the enemy last through my turn and can act as spotter or indeed return fire. Gunfighting is cheap re AP, and I have two ambidex ones), so I can take the city sectors quickly and have time to explore 1-2 squares around the city to kill patrols (it's what I did with the 40 this night, then tried another sector beneath). However, despite having a ranger for travel speed I have little chance for more than 3 combats when counting the way back and trying to get a few hours of repair in to maintain active weaponry during the day. I simply can't afford to train milita with my earnings and payment duties, even with the cheapest of hires, so it's not like I can fortify the city in any way or try to take it back during daylight. Weapon drops are still rare enough to be trouble in terms of finances (haven't crossed 3k from the mine yet and don't get the full day payment in any case) and when (not if!) I get shot up badly I have little time to heal (and not enough med kits for surgery).

I'm seriously considering starting a new game without the drassen counterattack and maybe (instead of jacking up mine income) do a reduced 5-IMP supersoldier game (with a gunfighter/sniper/radio operator/scout, a ranger/engineer/paramedic, a gunner/e/p, a heavy weapon specialist/e/p and maybe a martial artist/e/p for money - all stats and skills locked in at 50 so they need to train up before they get superpowered. I need engineers for repairing combat damage, or at least a technician, due to new repair system, but I depend on heal less than repair, so doubling up there is more important I think. Everybody would still be night ops and athletic), just so I can explore the game more freely - but am I throwing in the towel too soon? I like the challenge AR provides, but I don't enjoy running out the 20 days I have on almost everybody if I can already tell it's not sustainable. Currently I don't see the situation improving long-term, as the paid guys occasionally still level up, I need more money instead of less...

another edit: decided to go with: 4 IMPs, everyone at least night ops and athletic. All stats and skills 50, except wisdom which is 75. Three essentials, one san mona stay behind: an ambidex stealthy gunfighter/ranger with scouting and radio operator. One gunner stacked with engineer and paramedic - and demolitions for fun. One sniper/bombardier with technician, also bodybuilding for carry weight (back line role will mean the dam res doesn't come into effect much) and demo for fun. Stay behind is a martial artist stacked with engineer and paramedic, bodybuilding (will have to see if the dam res is cheating when boxing in san mona) and again demo for fun. This game I'll try and earn enough money to hire a bunch of people for a good long while and being sure I can afford to hold a mine and train milita. Until then it's free movement though, so I'm thinking san mona and then do whatever pleases me happy Haven't been to estoni yet, so that might be interesting... My stay behind will likely do little else than repair loot and sell it, I don't like (the famously buggy) boxing.

The original question is still valid and open though, I would appreciate an answer despite an "easy mode" new game happy

[Updated on: Sat, 20 August 2016 05:15]

Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346691 is a reply to message #346688] Sat, 20 August 2016 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1078
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
I'm not experienced with AR, but I've been reading your posts and your problems are not unique to AR. Myself, I play drop-all to counter-balance the massive counter-attacks. That allows me to arm my group, and to sell off what I don't need so I can pay salaries . . . and when the time comes it allows me to arm my militia (I also play that you have to arm the militia yourself to further counter-balance the drop-all).

The scarcity of med kits is a problem (but not in Arulco Vacations where you can find 1st aid kits in homes and med kits in the medical facilities, and the enemy also will drop 1st aid kits and med kits). The only way to get around that is to hire a medic who comes with one, and to NOT do surgery unless absolutely necessary. Surgery uses up the med kit very fast.

Picking off patrols does help, but the massive counter-attack feature spawns a bunch of enemy for the counter-attack -- there's no getting around it except to be very aggressive against patrols, and very lucky. Sometimes I'll let them retake the mine, and then wait them out until they break up into groups of 20 . . . and then pick off the groups.

Some people can handle the massive counter-attacks by gaming the system -- finding someplace that's a bottleneck and killing the enemy as they continually enter the bottleneck. Or, in Drassen, because the height levels are buggy, getting on rooftops and picking off the enemy from there. Because of the way Drassen mine sector is laid out (with 2 cliff levels, which is buggy in JA2) it is very difficult to hit anyone on a roof.

But really, I'd say Drop-All would solve most of your problems -- and, as far as I'm concerned, it is a realistic option.




Arulco Vacations Blog

Arulco Vacations Bears Pit Forum


Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346696 is a reply to message #346691] Sat, 20 August 2016 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
Thanks edmortimer, but AR is specifically designed to make you "live off the land" for longer than normal, and "don't use drop all" and "sell to locals at 20%" are recommended in the documentation that comes with it, so I'm hesitating there.
As for medkits, I don't do surgery really, but just the doctor assignment consumes them at an alarming rate, what with 9 soldiers getting continually wounded. However, you do loot a few of them, so that would be fine if I didn't have the financial pressure I described. I've decided to restart with the three essential IMPs only and take Ira along, so I'm running with an unpaid team of 4, which I should be able to do as long as I want. It's not so large or powerful I can take a town and hold it, but I might be able to check out cambria, estoni and maybe later adea out of san mona while making enough cash to hire AIMs long term once I go there. Also, I've disabled the counterattack for this game, I can always reactivate it once I get a proper grip on AR.

Btw, your comment about the drassen layout reminded me - if you are unfamiliar with AR, check the pic I linked above. There you can see the new, larger map with the new towns. I haven't played a single sector yet that is the same as in vanilla/ja2, everything has been reworked - it's pretty neat!
Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346697 is a reply to message #346696] Sat, 20 August 2016 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1078
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
I've seen the maps. I'm not a fan of expanding the towns to more sectors because that shrinks the country down even smaller, and it's already smaller than Liechtenstein.




Arulco Vacations Blog

Arulco Vacations Bears Pit Forum


Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346698 is a reply to message #346697] Sat, 20 August 2016 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:136
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
edmortimer wrote on Sat, 20 August 2016 18:02
I've seen the maps. I'm not a fan of expanding the towns to more sectors because that shrinks the country down even smaller, and it's already smaller than Liechtenstein.


I agree even if vanilla maps outside towns are so empty...just trees and few farms here and there
Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346701 is a reply to message #346698] Sat, 20 August 2016 23:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
I'm enjoying the new maps a lot, although I haven't been to any other towns but san mona and chitzena. Every wilderness sector so far however has been very interesting. I enjoy the looting farmhouses etc (which is much more valuable in AR), there are more SAMs to be found and I haven't seen the smuggler sectors yet either. It plays markedly different, and the typical wilderness fights are no longer as repetitive I feel. I don't think the map feels smaller now, quite the opposite actually.
Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346702 is a reply to message #346701] Sat, 20 August 2016 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1078
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
What I mean by smaller is that it takes 5 minutes for Mercs to go from one town sector to another . . . but from one wilderness sector to another takes around 1-2 hours or more depending on terrain. Therefore, one can cross Arulco in a day normally, and when you sub town sectors in for wilderness sectors the time it takes to travel Arulco is lessened greatly.

The AR wilderness maps are good, but I like mine better happy




Arulco Vacations Blog

Arulco Vacations Bears Pit Forum


Re: Arulco Revisited - Give me my next strategic goal (hanging around San Mona)[message #346703 is a reply to message #346702] Sun, 21 August 2016 00:18 Go to previous message
gimmehints

 
Messages:140
Registered:May 2016
edmortimer wrote on Sat, 20 August 2016 22:39
What I mean by smaller is that it takes 5 minutes for Mercs to go from one town sector to another . . . but from one wilderness sector to another takes around 1-2 hours or more depending on terrain. Therefore, one can cross Arulco in a day normally, and when you sub town sectors in for wilderness sectors the time it takes to travel Arulco is lessened greatly.


Interesting perspective! With this in mind I looked over the map again, and see myself half agreeing - omerta/balime and estoni should make a fair difference. Chitzena, drassen and escondite don't matter much I think (when did you ever travel around there looking for something to do except for clearing the sector once?), neither does grumm. Baldio is a huge one I guess, there was nothing down there and now you got two sectors with fast movement in every direction...

Still, from my limited experience with AR so far there is not much many-sectors-travelling-at-once anyway, it's not like you run out of enemies or can clear out a spot happy I'll keep this in mind though and see how it progresses later.
Previous Topic: Just installed, but I can't find the AR ja2.ini...
Next Topic: Can't enter first sector
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Oct 22 07:32:53 EEST 2018

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01233 seconds