| Struggling - They shoot that bad - even with high Marksmanship [message #350072]
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Thu, 15 June 2017 02:28 
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 Kugelblitz |
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Messages:7
Registered:April 2017 |
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Hello Guys,
I switched from JA2 1.05 which I had a lot of fun to JA 1.13 (cause of the Zombies, new weapons, equipment and more)
As there is no Savegame converter and I could not take my well trained MECs with me I used a Hexeditor to give me a little benefit financially wise.
So I could equip my MECs well.
The MECs also have pretty high Marksmenship Values most over 95.
Still I am struggling a lot. They Miss the shots most of the time and even when they hit they hurt the Enemies very little - one digit Values.
I made a short video to illustrate it.
Hope you can tell me what my fault is.
The "shot" is around 1 Minute in the Video.
www.dropbox.com/s/4enhwtox2ghguzd/ja1.13.mp4?dl=0
Sorry I could not post as a link cause I have not written more than 10 replies yet.
[Updated on: Thu, 15 June 2017 02:30] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Struggling - They shoot that bad - even with high Marksmanship [message #350073 is a reply to message #350072]
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Thu, 15 June 2017 05:59 
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| Multihog |
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Messages:17
Registered:April 2017 |
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Looks like you're using new chance to hit (NCTH). I myself gave up on it a long time ago for this very reason. The lack of accuracy is frustrating. I'm not sure if this is how NCTH is supposed to function, but I remember it being very inaccurate compared to the vanilla system. I rather have my super OP OCTH late game snipers than NCTH mercs, who can't aim even when maxed out.
[Updated on: Thu, 15 June 2017 06:02] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Struggling - They shoot that bad - even with high Marksmanship [message #350083 is a reply to message #350076]
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Thu, 15 June 2017 20:33
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| Multihog |
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Messages:17
Registered:April 2017 |
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silversurfer wrote on Thu, 15 June 2017 10:39There are several reasons for the bad aim shown in the video. The prime reason is that you are trying to aim at an enemy that is ~3 tiles away from the shooter using a 7x scope. This causes a massive penalty. It will go much better if you switched aim mode to the reflex sight (using the "." key). At this range you may even have good luck firing from hip. Scopes have a minimum range and when used below that there is an increasing penalty. Minimum range is scope factor * NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE / 10 * SCOPE_RANGE_MULTIPLIER. The latter values are taken from CTHConstants.ini. With 1.13 default values a 7x scope would have a minimum range of 7 * 70 / 10 * 0.7 = 34 tiles. The penalty starts at this range * AIM_TOO_CLOSE_THRESHOLD. The default for the latter is 0.8 which would provide an increasing penalty below 34 * 0.8 = 27 tiles. That's why I only use 7x or stronger scopes with my snipers. The AR/LMG mercs get a 4x scope and reflex sight so they can use their weapon at average and close range. Snipers get an SMG for close range combat.
On top of that the shooter has very poor dexterity which was lowered by a critical hit or disease maybe? Shooting is not only affected by marksmanship but also by experience, dexterity and wisdom. The weighting of each can also be found in CTHConstants.ini.
Btw. NCTH is supposed to work differently than OCTH and it is supposed to be more inaccurate. It's working just fine. It just takes some time to get acquainted to it and learn how it works. People need to decide if they want to run the "sniper squad 99% head shot OCTH exploit game" or the "more balanced and realistic but sometimes WTF did he just miss? NCTH game". Our mercs are not robots. They are under pressure and make mistakes in the heat of battle. That's why even the best trained soldier misses in combat - in reality and not in games. Just select the system that suits your play style best but I encourage you to use NCTH. I found OCTH to be really boring after some point when I got good gear.
PS: When the inner aperture doesn't decrease anymore there is no use in spending additional action points on aiming.
Damn, your post makes me want to give NCTH another chance. OCTH really is getting kinda predictable when using the best gear. It's practically impossible to ever miss with good sniper rifles and 10x scopes. There's also little point in having a backup weapon when the 10x scope sniper delivers headshots from point blank range just fine with minimum AP used.
Btw, does enabling NCTH also affect enemy accuracy? I mean, would I just nerf myself by using NCTH, and the enemy would stay as they were with OCTH?
[Updated on: Thu, 15 June 2017 21:02] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Struggling - They shoot that bad - even with high Marksmanship [message #350113 is a reply to message #350094]
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Mon, 19 June 2017 09:03
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| Ableton |
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Messages:10
Registered:June 2017
Location: Spain |
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Ye, what he (silversurfer) said. Sorry, couldnt resist 
Although, seeing your weapons state of (dis)repair, I dont think you deserve any help! Shaaaame!
But yeah, even my 4x auto wepn toons pack a CQB; a P90, groza, M4A1 etc with a reflex/cobra.
Kinda silly if you think about it, because even if you have a sniper rifle with a 10x, and a guy comes around the corner, you should still be able to hip fire with reasonable accuracy.
Because in those situations you wouldnt bring the weapon in a shoulder position. 5+ meters ok, but 1 or 2 tiles away is just frustrating. 
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| Re: Struggling - They shoot that bad - even with high Marksmanship [message #350122 is a reply to message #350121]
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Mon, 19 June 2017 22:38
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| Deleted. |
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Messages:2663
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation |
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You can try these settings in CTHConstants.ini
BASE_EXP = 1.0
BASE_MARKS = 4.0
BASE_WIS = 1.0
BASE_DEX = 4.0
BASE_STANDING_STANCE = 2.0
BASE_CROUCHING_STANCE = 2.5
BASE_PRONE_STANCE = 3.0
AIM_EXP = 1.0
AIM_MARKS = 8.0
AIM_WIS = 2.0
AIM_DEX = 1.0
AIM_DRAW_COST = 0.5
AIM_STANDING_STANCE = 1.5
AIM_CROUCHING_STANCE = 1.0
AIM_PRONE_STANCE = 0.5
Also if you don't like too big penalty for scopes at close range, set AIM_TOO_CLOSE_SCOPE to -2.0 or even -1.0.
[Updated on: Mon, 19 June 2017 22:40]
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| Re: Struggling - They shoot that bad - even with high Marksmanship [message #350123 is a reply to message #350122]
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Mon, 19 June 2017 23:14
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| xcorps121169 |
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Messages:10
Registered:June 2017
Location: Missouri |
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Thanks Sevenfm, I didn't want to go around changing numbers willy-nilly without some idea of what I was doing. Appreciate the post.
Edit:
So I played a couple hours last night with those changes and a few hours today. It's much improved. There's plenty of "oh crap" moments when you miss a shot you absolutely needed to hit with, but there's also a reasonable certainty of max aim snipers getting a hit. The high Mksmn Mercs actually feel like they have the skill in the 90's. Buns is a reliable long gunner, but I don't want her in CQB. I hired back Scope and she's effective enough with the VSS to put a solo or pair of bad guys out of commission but she's weak against groups of 3-4, just like it should be. Shadow and my stealthy IMP are a pretty effective pair with Spider as overwatch.
All is well in Arulco.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 June 2017 00:34] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Struggling - They shoot that bad - even with high Marksmanship [message #350698 is a reply to message #350328]
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Tue, 22 August 2017 14:05
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| oak43 |
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Messages:11
Registered:August 2017 |
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i also changed these to, at least, give me a couple of turns to fire/miss/fire/miss/fire/hit.
it was really frustrating to miss 3 turns in a row, but a red shirt hitting my mercs, standing with a pistol. Even when they did suppressing fire.
AIM_DIFFICULTY_NOVICE = -80.0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_EXPERIENCED = -80.0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_EXPERT = -30.0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_INSANE = -30.0
[Updated on: Tue, 22 August 2017 14:07] Report message to a moderator
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