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G11 or mikes gun[message #28074] Mon, 21 June 2004 23:09 Go to next message
TNT is currently offline TNT

 
Messages:49
Registered:June 2004
Location: Netherlands
Though probably already discussed many times.

Mikes gun seems weird. The damage it does is more then you would think if you see its stats. It can match the fal and m14 for some odd reason. Next to that, is mikes gun surpressed(silenced)? If used kills, hardly any (if any at all) enemies come to investigate. Whereas when you use the fnfal in the same situation at least 5 show up. Or is it just a coincidence?

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28075] Mon, 21 June 2004 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands is currently offline DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
The ammunition ("Tears through kevlar like butter",) might be what does the trick.

(AP rounds don't do alot of tissue-damage, and HP doesn't seem to do jack 'gainst armor. I think those 4.7s are somewhere in between.)
Also (forgot where I read this...) the G11 would shoot so fast, that you'd have fired off a burst before feeling the recoil.(brrrakka!)
I didn't think it was silenced, lovely sound as is though(Ptot)

About the enemies, the way you wrote "show up" makes it seem as if the spawn from thin air Wink ( which, of course, they don't.) For me it helps entering a sector in a corner, this eliminates two sides that need cover.
I've got the feeling that the enemies are mostly spread even over the sector, unless they just entered...
So if you'd enter the sector deadcenter, they'll come at you from all sides and will reach you roughly simultaneously.
Starting in a corner you can advance 10(max)squares with a scout, and have the rest take up positions. :rifle:

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Master Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28076] Tue, 22 June 2004 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
HK G11 insures no burst penalty for auto-weapons experts.Low recoil forces,too.
Because using it on single fire is not action points rentable I use it with extender/rod&spring/laser/bipod.But it is also great to use with sniper scope.
Generally used during night time operations,because the relatively shorter distance at which you spot the ennemy is more adequate for that 25-35 range,it has a "gas suppressing construction" and really is a Porsche of assault rifles.
The sound is questionable though,on single shot it seems more like a WC water flush to my ears; heard it was fixed in Wildfire,too.Burst sound is good,but not half as good as the one of the P90,the weapon of choice for Stargate SG1.
Why on earth did they make the FA-MAS faster shooting,at the same range?

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28077] Tue, 22 June 2004 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tuccy is currently offline tuccy

 
Messages:19
Registered:June 2003
Location: Czech Republic
The G-11 can fire single shots, three-round bursts and longer bursts. IIRC long bursts are in 600rpm, but the three-rounds burst is fired at 2000rpm and zou reallz feel the recoil just after third shot, and when second bullet is fired the first still is in the barrel nearing the muzzle.

Btw the no-burst-penalty applies to all, not just AW experts AFAIK.

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Private
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28078] Tue, 22 June 2004 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TNT is currently offline TNT

 
Messages:49
Registered:June 2004
Location: Netherlands
@ DNA I think "show up" is the perfect term to use for the game. Sure, you know their there, but they pop up into view of your merc when they come in range. Its not like its realistic and you see a small character in the distance, and a big char when close. From a gameplay point of view they do spawn out of thin air. Wink

I always liked the G11 sound. (ptot) sounds like someone spitting through a long tube. Very Happy

Azazel, when you say "gas surpressing" what exactly does that mean?

I read a bit about it yesterday, interesting development and system. Oddly, most of the G11 types come complete with a scope. The G11 the game uses apparently was a prototype and all prototypes carried the scope.

Are the modern G11 used by modern military?

Whats does afaik mean? :confused:

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28079] Wed, 23 June 2004 07:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
themglman is currently offline themglman

 
Messages:74
Registered:October 2001
Location: Texas
@TNT

AFAIK = As Far As I Know

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28080] Wed, 23 June 2004 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Grenade:


AFAIK = As Far As I Know [/QB]
,or
IPSOI=In the present state of our ignornace.

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28081] Wed, 23 June 2004 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tyco is currently offline Tyco

 
Messages:188
Registered:September 2001
Location: Be'er Sheva, Israel
Ipsoi... Sounds like an alien race from Babylon 5.

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Staff Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28082] Wed, 23 June 2004 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Apollo is currently offline Apollo

 
Messages:57
Registered:November 2003
Location: England
AFAIK, no army uses them. The project was cancelled due to lack of funds, and not many were ever made. I read somewhere that magazines for it were so complicated that they could only be used once, and had to be assembled and shrink-wrapped in a factory then sent out... So great for a highly-paid mercenary, but a bit impractical for an army.

Apollo

PS Tyco, I love B5, one of the best sci-fi series around. You ever watched firefly?

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28083] Thu, 24 June 2004 00:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
erata:ignorance,not "ignornace"
Loved Babylon 5,now I'm a Stargate fan.
IPSOI the P90 beats G11 at everything,saw that "masked advertising" in the SG1 series.Too bad it's not in every game...
Must say real weapons construction and description of capabilities in this forum is one of the things I can't agree with.
Please,guys,let them get this kind of information somewhere else!

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28084] Thu, 24 June 2004 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TNT is currently offline TNT

 
Messages:49
Registered:June 2004
Location: Netherlands
I hope that first ipsoi comment wasnt an insinuation......

P90, are those the machine guns used mostly by carter? (since the rest seems to prefer the zat'kettel or however its supposedly written)

Firefly rocks, to bad it got cancelled.

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28085] Thu, 24 June 2004 01:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
No way!Was a recruit not so long ago...
No offense meant!
Why does everybody have the tendency to take it personally these days? Fred:"This wheather,El Nino,etc".
Yup,that's the thing.It just happens to be my favorite weapon in JA2,perhaps because it can be silenced and it is so rare...

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28086] Thu, 24 June 2004 06:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TNT is currently offline TNT

 
Messages:49
Registered:June 2004
Location: Netherlands
LOL, calm down AZAZEL. It was a joke Wink
Even if you wanted to insult me (which I highly doubted, from what ive read in my lurking time, youre not the kind to do that), you cant insult me. Not in real life and definatly not through internet. Wink ....maybe I should have used some weird or sarcastic smilie, it could help prevent these misunderstandings.

I never knew mikes gun could be silenced... :confused: Live and learn and kill others with what i've learned to day.

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28087] Thu, 24 June 2004 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boomer is currently offline Boomer

 
Messages:114
Registered:February 2004
Location: In the heart of Transilva...
@AZAZEL
Maybe it's just your style. Or maybe the stress you gone through at your office. Sometimes you do seem to be offending, even if that wasn't your intent.

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Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28088] Thu, 24 June 2004 07:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
By the way-if some of us say G11 offers no burst penalty for a nonspecialist,why in the world don't they also say they give it to psychos?
It has a 50 rounds magasine in the game,and that 1 extra-point for 3burst mode shouldn't make that much of a difference.
Is it the rarity of the ammo?In a long game I played,more than 300 days,Tony brought everyday at least 4 clips for sale at about 700 bucks a piece.You can imagine the cash I was having...no loyalty loss,really could fork it(is this well said?)...

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28089] Thu, 24 June 2004 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
@TNT
No,Mike's gun can't be silenced,at least the fair and square way.
But the FN P90 can be,it is considered a 1 hand gun(ha!) and can't receive the sniper scope(seems it must be some "downside" for everything in this game!)

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28090] Thu, 24 June 2004 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tyco is currently offline Tyco

 
Messages:188
Registered:September 2001
Location: Be'er Sheva, Israel
Can it really be fired single-handed like that? The P90, I mean. I've seen on Tech-TV and read articles, but it all seems like showing off. Doesn't look all that comfortable for one hand.

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Staff Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28091] Thu, 24 June 2004 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Tyco:
Can it really be fired single-handed like that? The P90, I mean. I've seen on Tech-TV and read articles, but it all seems like showing off. Doesn't look all that comfortable for one hand.
Couldn't really say,never held one in (one)hand or looked through that little "side-sniper" they can receive in real life.The fact it's so compact and seems to be really steady and well balanced when you use it at the shoulder could lead to the conclusion it is possible to fire 2 of them on burst mode at the same time;nevertheless,the position would be really unconfortable(need to lay back a little and be very broad-shouldered) and "good procedure-kinogram movement- improves hit percentage" as any instructor could tell you.

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28092] Fri, 25 June 2004 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Forsaken is currently offline Forsaken

 
Messages:47
Registered:August 2002
Location: Germany
Quote:
Originally posted by AZAZEL:
Quote:
Originally posted by Tyco:
Can it really be fired single-handed like that? The P90, I mean. I've seen on Tech-TV and read articles, but it all seems like showing off. Doesn't look all that comfortable for one hand.
Couldn't really say,never held one in (one)hand or looked through that little "side-sniper" they can receive in real life.The fact it's so compact and seems to be really steady and well balanced when you use it at the shoulder could lead to the conclusion it is possible to fire 2 of them on burst mode at the same time;nevertheless,the position would be really unconfortable(need to lay back a little and be very broad-shouldered) and "good procedure-kinogram movement- improves hit percentage" as any instructor could tell you.
As far as I know, it's quite impossible to fire it single handed. It's simply to large and wielding would be a real problem. Never seen it done either, even in movies! And if I remember correctly Weapon X once mentioned that firing two guns with burst at the same time IS NOT possible because of the eye-hand coordination. You can't focus on the two guns at the same time - aiming is done in succession - and so wouldn't hit a barn face on.

- Forsaken

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28093] Sat, 26 June 2004 05:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Not wielding it!Keeping two of them at the "axila" ,while laying backwards some 20-30 degrees,with the legs in a forcefull position(ha,ha,ha!:well spread Smile
That ought to be possible with even bigger guns...
Dunno if my English is good,but that was a joke,not a trashing!

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28094] Sat, 26 June 2004 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TNT is currently offline TNT

 
Messages:49
Registered:June 2004
Location: Netherlands
Now, i never fired a gun and what im about to say probably underlines that, but...

Why cant one fire to bursts at the same time? Hand eye coordination? Seems weird, I can write with two hands at the same time (since im right handed, my left writing looks like that of a 2 year old, but stil readable), isnt that the same type of hand eye coordination only slightly more lethal?

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28095] Sat, 26 June 2004 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Apollo is currently offline Apollo

 
Messages:57
Registered:November 2003
Location: England
There's nothing to stop someone firing two bursts at the same time, apart from strength etc. The problem comes whe accuracy is taken into account. The recoil from an automatic weapon is (I imagine) quite large. This is why two hands are needed to control it. To fire two bursts at the same time would require one hand per weapon. This would put maybe the first shot roughly on target, but all the rest would go shooting over the target's head and into some poor farmer's field a few km away...

Also, there are problems with aiming. You can type two-handed, because you can flick your eyes back and forth between keys to see what you're doing (or, if you're really lucky, rely on memory and touch-type - this is because the layout of the keyboard doesn't change) The problem when firing is that you can't look through the sights of two weapons at once ('sights' ranges from simple pistol sights to scopes). It is physically impossible. Some animals can move their eyes seperately, but we cannot (and I'd like to see a Gecko trying to fire a P90...).

So, in summary, there are two problems. Firstly, recoil and control of a weapon single-handed, and secondly, aiming two weapons at once.

Apollo

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28096] Sat, 26 June 2004 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Apollo is currently offline Apollo

 
Messages:57
Registered:November 2003
Location: England
Ok, just re-read your post and realised you were talking about writing with your non-dominant hand. Even if you can write with both hands at once, this wouldn't translate to being able to fire two guns at once accuratly. Your brain can tell where your body is, even with our eyes closed (technically, a sense called proprioception), and this can enable us to do things without looking. On a battelfield, though, visual input is required to target, and, as explained above, this cannot be done for two guns simultaneously.

Apollo

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28097] Sat, 26 June 2004 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Can you fire like a western gunslinger,and hit target just by switching the holster in the right direction?
In theory that broad-shouldered man could,if good position of the strong legs is found,would function like a twin-turret of an aircraft machine gun.Picture that...Seen the defenders of Zion in Matrix?
My aikido and tir instructor Could have killed me without raising his heart rhythm by some ten beats per minute for this kind of show-off representation!
But he's not around,is he?

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First Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28098] Sun, 27 June 2004 01:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Apollo is currently offline Apollo

 
Messages:57
Registered:November 2003
Location: England
Most western gunslingers carried two guns to double their ammo capacity - 12 bullets rather than 6 - and would use them one after the other rather than both at the same time.

With an AA rig for a LMG, the recoil is absorbed by the turret, whereas no matter how strong the firer, he will not be able to keep two guns on target single-handed.

Likewise aiming: with an AA rig, both guns are pointing in the same direction, and are kept that way. It matters little that the two streams of bullets will be a few inches apart when hitting the target. In essence, the firer is aiming one gun. With two independant guns, the firer has to focus on each individual gun simultaneously, which, as explained above, is not possible.

The defendors of Zion (big mechwarrior-type machines?) are big and heavy enough to absorb the recoil, and they're made of metal and can easily hold a gun. I would defy anyone to hold an automatic weapon on target one-handed for anything more than the first round.

I see less problem with firing very short bursts from small smgs/machine pistols each in turn, three rounds from one hand then three from the other and so on. That would allow the firer to switch aim from gun to gun, and allow the guns to be brought back down after recoiling, but it would still be difficult.

Apollo

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28099] Mon, 28 June 2004 00:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands is currently offline DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
Zyeah, Apollo Battletech rules.

http://www.kerensky.tierranet.com/btech/btech.shtml

Warning!
Heat level...
critical
reactor shutdown...
...
...shutting down.
[panic!!!]

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Master Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28100] Mon, 28 June 2004 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mravac Kid is currently offline Mravac Kid

 
Messages:68
Registered:May 2004
Location: Opatija, Croatia
Having fired the AK-47 when I was in the army, and hitting 3 out of 20 bullets at 300 m (IIRC), I'd say firing two burst-fire guns at the same time, without some mode of support, is pretty much impossible. Don't trust Steven Seagal movies, they're fun but they're hardly realistic Smile

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28101] Fri, 02 July 2004 04:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snicker is currently offline Snicker

 
Messages:71
Registered:November 2002
Location: Canada
I could see people firing two guns accurately, provided they are one of those very rare people who can shoot from the hip (ie, don't need to sight their guns, at least not the way most people do). What I would be more impressed by is firing on full automatic one-handed. You'd be quite literally shooting for the stars if using any caliber heavier than BBs.

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Corporal
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28102] Fri, 02 July 2004 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands is currently offline DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
P'haps a bullpup might work (G11/Fa-mas/Steyer/what's that gun the Brittish use?) they tend not to raise up (recoil) as much, due to the construction/way you hold it. Or so I read.
(Reading here nearly a year now, I tend to get an itchy index-finger... might even join a shooting range... soon I'll start buying SAM-/Guns&ammo-magazines)

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Master Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28103] Mon, 11 April 2005 03:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaethWalker is currently offline DaethWalker

 
Messages:98
Registered:September 2003
Location: Rocky Point, NC
I could possibly see someone pulling it off one time.

As an exhibition. With lots of preparation.

But, actually firing consistently on target whether on a range or in a combat situation ... probably impossible.

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28104] Mon, 11 April 2005 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bane is currently offline Bane

 
Messages:201
Registered:May 2000
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
To answer the original question, the HK G11 uses "extra Armour Piercing" ammo. That's why it hits as hard as an FN when facing armoured troops (which most enemies are, by the time you get the G11).

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28105] Tue, 12 April 2005 04:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands is currently offline DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm

Near the bottom of the page is a schematic that explains how the 3-shot-burst does.

It's a marvel.

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Master Sergeant
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28106] Wed, 04 May 2005 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Holywhippet is currently offline Holywhippet

 
Messages:25
Registered:March 2003
Location: Canberra, Australia
Has anyone else played Time Crisis 2 on the PS2? It has a mode which lets you use two pistols for a single player. I tried it, I sucked. I was just shooting wildly and couldn't hit with either gun it seemed. I kept having a switch back to a single gun for accuracy shots.

Of course, if you were using automatic pistols then spray and pray might work for you. At the very least your enemies would be more likely to take cover.

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Private 1st Class
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28107] Thu, 16 June 2005 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rev is currently offline Rev

 
Messages:31
Registered:April 2001
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by DNA from the Lowlands:
http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm

Near the bottom of the page is a schematic that explains how the 3-shot-burst does.

It's a marvel.
I enjoyed the 1MB demonstration video on G-11 (from the hkpro.com site). The video shows a soldier loading the ammo strip from the front (topside), but when the G-11 is fired, this ammo strip *looks* to be recoiling :confused:

The 1.3MB video.
http://www.hkpro.com/video/g11-1-128.mpg

Holywhippet, is there a shooting range on/near Canberra? If there's one maybe you could try firing two pistols at once and see if the PS2 experience is correct Smile

On Gold Coast, QLD there'a an indoor shooting range on one of the shopping malls near Surfers Paradise beach. It's beside an arcade game centre (Timezone) and bowling alley. I kid you not.

They don't allow dual pistols unfortunately Sad They had each pistol chained up tight to ensure visitors don't injure themselves or the instructor.

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Private 1st Class
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28108] Thu, 16 June 2005 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
North is currently offline North

 
Messages:26
Registered:September 2003
Location: NC
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as42-e.htm

Theres some more on it.

EDIT: Im surprised on how real the guns look in the game compared to them in real life, at that site, theres more guns from JA2.

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Private 1st Class
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28109] Fri, 17 June 2005 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Darth Walker is currently offline Darth Walker

 
Messages:7
Registered:April 2005
Location: Denmark
I've tried the 'dual pistol gimmick' a couple of times, and trust me when I'm saying that it's completely impossible to hit anything beyond 5 cm's of the muzzles of the guns.

It looks cool in movies, and you put a lot of lead in the air, but that's pretty much it.

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Private
Re: G11 or mikes gun[message #28110] Sat, 18 June 2005 00:53 Go to previous message
DNA from the Lowlands is currently offline DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
AN-94 , pardon my drool Smile
It fires a 2shot-burst at the same incredible-ratio, "theoretical rate of fire of 1800 rounds per minute."
BUT this ones fires 5.45X39 (which is cased), making it more of an enginering-feat.

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Master Sergeant
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