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Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352592] Fri, 02 March 2018 20:56 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3407
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Years ago, Headrock coded mobile militia. Mobile militia is basically all militia outside of town sectors (back then, having militia outside of towns was an exciting new feature in itself). Mobile militia move in a random direction every 2 hours. The possible directions can be restricted by RESTRICT_ROAMING by using this:
https://i.imgur.com/VnDuzKn.png

However, we nowadays can order militia to move similar to mercs, can determine how many to move, and much more.

While our normal approach is to just let both features coexist, bloating the code, I'm currently cleaning up a bit. So I would like to remove MOBILE_MILITIA in its entirety.

Does anybody have a good reason why I should not do so? Generic 'it was always there' does not count, as this is not a vanilla feature. If not, i'm going to delete this soon. And no, I'm not going to put this to vote. This is not a democracy.



The android shrugged. "Sometimes I break into your quarters and watch you sleep. And measure you to satisfy my electronic need for precision."
Will stared.
"It's not that unusual, I do it all to the crew."

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352594 is a reply to message #352592] Sat, 03 March 2018 04:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hanokh1967

 
Messages:14
Registered:December 2007
Location: Outer Banks, NC USA
I would vote for leaving both systems. An unreliable, uncontrollable, militia seems more realistic to me. The US military could not depend on ARVN troops in Vietnam nor current Iraqi and Afghan forces to follow orders(or even trust them not to switch sides). With 100% control of the militia only, the game would become even easier than it already has become. One could zerg the whole game by capturing the HQ, hiring a couple of teachers, and then having the militia do all the fighting. Also there is so much micromanaging now, please leave the option to not do so with the militia.
Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352597 is a reply to message #352594] Sat, 03 March 2018 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigalmoho

 
Messages:37
Registered:January 2016
I would ask: Does leaving it in, harm further development of the new system? and if not, why bother?

I, personally, would not like to see anything hold back the refinement and fine tuning of the new Militia system (just because, given the right time and circumstances, the Militia might desire to be trained into units that that can be sub-divided into units that can be tasked separately (especially in tactical)...

After re-reading the above, forget the local Militia, but the PMC "Militia" would logically have more training in being able to be controlled by the player, such that units and sub-units, could use formations and possibly immediate action drills (sneak or not, crouch or crawl etc.)

p.s. there are many ways to keep from making the game easier such as increasing the cost of PMC, requiring a period of in-country training, etc.


Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352599 is a reply to message #352597] Sat, 03 March 2018 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2371
Registered:May 2009
If by "remove mobile militia" you mean to get rid of the randomly moving groups of militia I'd say "Do it!". It never made much sense to me anyway to have militia that wanders around like they are collecting mushrooms. Leading militia around with the help of mercs or an HQ makes much more sense in my opinion. The fact that this cleanup makes the code easier to read is a bonus.

Still, I wonder if you plan to make more old systems obsolete? Like removing the old interrupt system, the old trait system or the old CTH system? This would make the code much more readable but it would probably cause an uproar... ;-)



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352600 is a reply to message #352599] Sat, 03 March 2018 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:257
Registered:December 2017
Location: here
silversurfer wrote on Sat, 03 March 2018 11:46

... but it would probably cause an uproar... ;-)

... and may force me to stay with the last version which has what i still want.


Besides, i rarely use militia, mostly for off map support because of unlimited resupply,
and often move them to other sector or lock in building&all get down every turn
so i can fight easy defense battles without their interference.
Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352601 is a reply to message #352600] Sat, 03 March 2018 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3407
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@Hanokh1967: MOBILE_MLITIA requires micromanaging as well, as one risks militia running off to die a pointless death, or getting in lost in the middle of nowhere. To combat both, one has to constantly restrict their movement options. One can also zerg the game by MOBILE_MILITIA the same way.

@bigalmoho: In general, this hurts the development process insofar as that the code is increasingly cluttered with outdated code. Think of our code as the kitchen of a shared flat: there is lots of old stuff that nobody is sure whom it belonged to and is no longer needed, but we don't throw it away because 'someone else might still have need for it'.
In this specific case, all militia training/movement/promotion/payment code is a lot more complicated due to this, a mobile militia alters all of that. Which is rather silly, considering that they are just militia in non-city sectors that are prompted every 2 hours to teleport to a random adjacent sector.

@silversurfer: While I'd like to at least cull the old trait system, these systems are genuine vanilla systems and thus any attempt to do so would cause a lot of backlash, so no.
Frankly, pretty much all code could use a revamp, as you likely know. I'm currently trying to make the assignment menu code at least a bit smaller (it's absurd that when adding a new assignment, 90% of the code is just getting that stupid menu to work).



The android shrugged. "Sometimes I break into your quarters and watch you sleep. And measure you to satisfy my electronic need for precision."
Will stared.
"It's not that unusual, I do it all to the crew."

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352609 is a reply to message #352592] Sat, 03 March 2018 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
deknegt

 
Messages:140
Registered:June 2007
Location: Doetinchem, Netherlands

I also want to add to Flugente's remark about the bloat in that with every updates being added theoretically every bit of code needs to be looked through to make sure it isn't broken by the changes made. With outdated and rarely used options still in the code, that means it adds more time to the process and generally makes it harder on the lives of the people that are coding new things into the game.

Mobile Militia was a very cool novelty when it was created by Headrock, but it has been replaced by a better system and even before it was replaced it was a feature that wasn't used a whole lot by the active userbase.

So i'm all for scrapping the legacy Mobile Militia system for the sake of a more streamlined code and game.
Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352610 is a reply to message #352609] Sun, 04 March 2018 01:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gopas

 
Messages:157
Registered:June 2016
Location: Norway
Yeah, get rid of the mobile militia, they are not completely useless but almost never where you need them to be in order to reinforce town militias. It's a coin toss. They disobey the restricted roaming rules and go wherever they please anyway, with 225 of them max cannot zerg the whole map nor do i like that. The main fighting force are the mercs, Militia is slowing the enemy down from retaking sectors but Mobile Militia is expendable cannon fodder and a waste of resources. Even if they manage to form a large group, eventually it gets worn down by enemy groups until they are all dead.

I also wonder about the same features as Silversurfer does. I would love for the classic interrupt system and OCTH to remain in the game alongside NCTH and improved interrupts. I always play with OCTH and instant interrupts on spotting, same as in vanilla. Here's an example : Reaper gets an interrupt through his sniper scope and gives interrupts to nearby mercs. Some of them have low stats, not the necessary equipment or even line of sight to the specific enemy, so it's a wasted gesture. They may try to move or exchange items but they may also put themselves in the LoS of the enemy. Risky. By keeping both old and new ways, players can try them both and see what they like, not everyone is comfortable with NCTH and improved interrupts. By the way, that feature also works for the enemy, right ? They cause enough damage without giving them improved interrupts, lol happy. I think that they do get them anyway as it is. Sorry for my ranting.
But yeah, getting rid of the mobile militia, you have my blessing. happy

[Updated on: Sun, 04 March 2018 01:07]




Just another old soldier.
Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352665 is a reply to message #352610] Sat, 10 March 2018 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3407
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As of r8542 & GameDir r2411, this feature, it's settings and xmls have been removed:
  • Map/RestrictedRoamingMilitia.xml has been deleted. It was read but it data was already not used for several years, making an excellent point about why removing stuff is necessary.
  • Map/DynamicRestrictions.xml has been removed.
  • The <ubMobileMilitiaTrainersAllowed> and <usMobileMilitiaTraining> tags were removed from Map/FacilityTypes.xml
  • In JA2_Options.ini, MILITIA_COST_MULTIPLIER_MOBILE, DAILY_MILITIA_UPKEEP_MOBILE_GREEN/REGULAR/ELITE, all [Mobile Militia Training Settings] and all [Mobile Militia Movement Settings] were removed.
This change is savegame compatible.



The android shrugged. "Sometimes I break into your quarters and watch you sleep. And measure you to satisfy my electronic need for precision."
Will stared.
"It's not that unusual, I do it all to the crew."

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352666 is a reply to message #352665] Sun, 11 March 2018 02:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hanokh1967

 
Messages:14
Registered:December 2007
Location: Outer Banks, NC USA
Too bad. I guess one will now just pick a build that has the features one likes, while you make your own personal game whether anyone likes your additions\subtractions. Perhaps 1.13 development should be ended with a particular build that has nothing removed and Flu's Mod 1.0 should be a separate game.
Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #352667 is a reply to message #352592] Sun, 11 March 2018 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:314
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Woah, please slow down on the drama, Flugente implemented a replacement for this feature and improved it significantly. That old option was more a problem than anything. Some cleanup has to be done in order to move on and improve the game. As you said, if you like the game in a specific state, you still can grab a build and use it as long as you want.
Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #353213 is a reply to message #352667] Wed, 18 April 2018 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:330
Registered:July 2006
I for one was using mobile militia feature ever since it was introduced by Headrock and I know a good number of people did as well. However, the new feature introduced by Flug is superior to the old one so I fine with removing the old one and cleaning the code.
Re: Delete MOBILE_MILITIA[message #353218 is a reply to message #353213] Wed, 18 April 2018 21:22 Go to previous message
Jolly_Reaper

 
Messages:47
Registered:August 2002
Location: The Netherlands

I think a cleanup would definitely be a good thing. If some things eventually become decrepit, they'll only add to bloat.
As for mobile militia, I never used it since I prefer to do the shooting myself.
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