Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Gameplay Talk » San Mona occupied?
San Mona occupied?[message #352729] Thu, 22 March 2018 04:51 Go to next message
MeganD

 
Messages:11
Registered:March 2018
Something like the third time I cleared out C5 and C6 for shop access, it occurred to me that I didn't remember doing this in vanilla. Checking the wiki: "The city is devoid of Army soldiers, and inhabited strictly by civilians and members of the mob. With the exception of San Mona Mine (D4), the army will never venture into San Mona, and likewise militia cannot be trained in the city either."

Is this a new thing in 1.13, have I messed up a setting somewhere somehow, or something else? It's gonna get kind of old if another patrol just moseys up and sits there every time I'm done shopping. I know there were troops there the very first time I visited too, because I remember fighting yellowshirts outside Tony's. Current progress is 34, haven't met or killed Kingpin, haven't done any quests related to Kingpin apart from Angel & Maria (and the 1.13-added follow-up).

Thanks in advance for any light anyone can shed on this. :)
Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352732 is a reply to message #352729] Thu, 22 March 2018 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
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Hmm, good question. I never noticed army inside the inhabited parts of San Mona but I'm playing on WF maps. Major difference between default 1.13 maps and WF maps in regards to San Mona is that 1.13 has a garrison in C5 (bar sector) whereas WF maps have a garrison in D4 (mine sector). However, the garrison in 1.13 has an army composition of 0 soldiers which should mean that it doesn't get used. This is strange...

Data-1.13\TableData\Army\GarrisonGroups.xml:
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Data-1.13\TableData\Army\ArmyComposition.xml:
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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352738 is a reply to message #352732] Fri, 23 March 2018 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MeganD

 
Messages:11
Registered:March 2018
I tried a couple of different map mods when I first started 1.13 but I missed the feel of the originals, and eventually I just went back to those. :) So is there any way I can make the strategic AI stay out of San Mona like it's supposed to?

[Updated on: Fri, 23 March 2018 00:32]

Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352741 is a reply to message #352738] Fri, 23 March 2018 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scalphunter

 
Messages:17
Registered:March 2017
This happens to me, too. I have my Z squad in San Mona practising their stats when suddenly I hear 'Naughty men here' for the 10th time. I never used any mods, though.
Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352743 is a reply to message #352729] Fri, 23 March 2018 05:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
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Registered:October 2005
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Vengeance: Reloaded has enemy troops marching into San Mona also. I often have to get Gasket out of there pronto while he fixes up items to sell to Tony.


Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352745 is a reply to message #352743] Fri, 23 March 2018 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
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The tiny groups of soldiers present in San Mona along with few patrols moving through
are imo the grain of salt which is required for the taste,
else it would feel to cheap having no threat for the mechanic or whoever we have there.

Troops in San Mona also partially correct the damage of financial balance
which is caused by more loot from higher number of enemies in 1.13,
that is, unless player uses the heineous "drop all" setting, which imo should trigger hordes of elites in C5 :D
Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352747 is a reply to message #352738] Fri, 23 March 2018 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
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MeganD wrote on Thu, 22 March 2018 23:32
So is there any way I can make the strategic AI stay out of San Mona like it's supposed to?

Removing the garrison entry from GarrisonGroups.xml may help but I wouldn't do it during a campaign. It may break things.



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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352748 is a reply to message #352745] Fri, 23 March 2018 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MeganD

 
Messages:11
Registered:March 2018
silversurfer wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 09:52
Removing the garrison entry from GarrisonGroups.xml may help but I wouldn't do it during a campaign. It may break things.

But that would just remove the initial group, wouldn't it? - and subsequent patrols might still squat there?

I checked GarrisonGroups and the San Mona group has a priority of zero, so it should be last on the list to refill, but that isn't how the game is acting. Of course, I am playing on Insane with ASD on; I don't know if that makes a difference. I also checked PatrolGroups, and there are no patrols assigned to any of the San Mona sectors, apart from the mine, which is as it should be - though again, that's not what I see in game. I don't immediately see any other files with specific references to those sectors - C5, C6, D5 - so I'm at a bit of a loss.

---

townltu wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 08:41
Troops in San Mona also partially correct the damage of financial balance which is caused by more loot from higher number of enemies in 1.13

Actually, it just adds an extra $15k to my bank account every time I go there, because the troops are kind enough to die in Tony's sector. I don't even have to lug stuff around.

townltu wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 08:41
unless player uses the heineous "drop all" setting, which imo should trigger hordes of elites in C5

...which would help not at all, since elites carry better stuff and I'd just make even more money. :P

Anyway, it contradicts the story. San Mona is Kingpin's territory; the army is not supposed to be there. How are his businesses making money if there's a running gun battle in the streets every 3 days?

If you want to make it dangerous for the player, a better way might be to have the army set up an ambush on the road to San Mona.

[Updated on: Fri, 23 March 2018 10:56]

Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352749 is a reply to message #352748] Fri, 23 March 2018 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
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Registered:December 2017
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MeganD wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 10:36
...

Anyway, it contradicts the story. San Mona is Kingpin's territory; the army is not supposed to be there. How are his businesses making money if there's a running gun battle in the streets every 3 days?

Who will spend money in San Mona if not the soldiers, the impoverished civilan population?
I appears more reasonable to me that soldiers are allowed to enter San Mona, for Kingpins and Queens profit,
agreement is probably toleration of business for tribute of Kingpin to queen,
so its in both interest that soldiers dont fight in San Mona,
unless we force them to do so,
in that case its in queens and Kingpins interest to throw us out, also resulting in patrols moving through.

Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352750 is a reply to message #352749] Fri, 23 March 2018 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MeganD

 
Messages:11
Registered:March 2018
They'd spend money in San Mona, sure. But two distinct groups, answering to two different (but equally touchy) authorities, intermingling while heavily armed? I don't see Kingpin tolerating that, and Deidranna wouldn't want her arrangement with him to be at the mercy of some random redshirt who might get drunk one night and mouth off to Spike. Any soldiers in San Mona should keep their heads down and pretend to not even see my mercs.

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- The Hunt for Red October
Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352752 is a reply to message #352750] Fri, 23 March 2018 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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The Queen's elites vacation there - as the story goes. It is YOUR forces that are the problem, not the Queen's. It is you who are forcing gun battles in the street, not the Queen. Kingpin and the Queen have an understanding, according to the backstory. Kingpin's territory is not another country, and Kingpin is not protecting anyone from the Queen - in fact, he assassinates people for the Queen, which means if we want to get real he would be assassinating Mercs for the Queen.




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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352753 is a reply to message #352752] Fri, 23 March 2018 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MeganD

 
Messages:11
Registered:March 2018
He assassinates problematic off-duty soldiers, I thought. And I wasn't implying that he would protect anyone from her, merely that he has an obvious interest in making sure that no large armed force exists in San Mona other than his own.

edmortimer wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 16:55
It is YOUR forces that are the problem, not the Queen's. It is you who are forcing gun battles in the street, not the Queen


No, that describes Kingpin's gang; they aren't hostile unless my mercs take action. But the out-of-place active duty soldiers do initiate hostilities. They're starting that fight, not my mercs.

edmortimer wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 16:55
if we want to get real he would be assassinating Mercs for the Queen.


Again, no. Kingpin is a regional power. What he says goes in San Mona, but only in San Mona. The 1.13 follow-up to the Angel & Maria questline confirms this; if he wants someone killed outside San Mona, he has to hire contractors.
Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352754 is a reply to message #352753] Fri, 23 March 2018 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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I don't have it handy, but it is Dimitri's quote about Kingpin, the Queen, and San Mona that describes the working relationship between Kingpin and the Queen.




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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352755 is a reply to message #352753] Fri, 23 March 2018 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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The bottom line is that every player can modify the game to fit their tastes. In the ../TableData/Army folder of the mod you are using (../Data-1.13/TableData/Army in your case) there is a PatrolGroups.XML file. You can modify that file so no army patrols go near San Mona - not only -into- San Mona, but -near- San Mona, because there is always a chance that army patrols adjacent to San Mona will enter San Mona because they scout your Mercs in San Mona.




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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352756 is a reply to message #352755] Fri, 23 March 2018 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MeganD

 
Messages:11
Registered:March 2018
I was curious, so I enabled cheats and hired It, auto-cleared the enemies and did the fights. Dmitri just said his usual manspy thing, but nothing further after meeting Kingpin. Was there some other trigger for the quote you're thinking of?

Before the fight, though, Kingpin himself explicitly calls me his "guest" and invites me to take "a well-deserved rest from the rigors of war." That would sound really odd if there were piles of dead soldiers I'd just killed right outside the door. ;)

The thing about modifying PatrolGroups, though, is that the enemies aren't moving around. C5 even had ? for # of enemies, indicating it's occupied, not a random patrol. Autoresolve was disabled so I ALT-O'd that one. And I was down by Balime when I last noticed San Mona filling up with ?s again, so they aren't following me in. They're occupying the place.
Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352757 is a reply to message #352756] Fri, 23 March 2018 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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If there's a patrol going through San Mona that would explain them going there when you are not there.

As for taking what Kingpin says at face value . . . he's a gangster.

I thought the relationship quote was Dimitri's . . . it might be Miguel's (or maybe even Manuel's or Carlos'). I'd have to play all their voice files to find it.

[Updated on: Fri, 23 March 2018 19:49]





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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352758 is a reply to message #352756] Fri, 23 March 2018 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
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Voice files of rebels related to San Mona C5 are, as far as i can see, npc_speech.slf -> D_[NPC_ID#]_014.wav,
and only Ira and Dimi appear to have the comments.

regarding patrols in San Mona, a priority value of zero in Armycomposition.xml does only mean a final result of zero
if its multiplied with another factor, but not as part of a sum.
In case true ad there is some priority, moving patrols will sooner or later end up in the town
if there is no other place with higher priority to go, respectively other forces are already on their way.
btw Omerta also has zero priority(but higher garrison count), and forces take it quite often.

Probably only the coders can shed light on this, but they may have other priorities;)
Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352759 is a reply to message #352758] Fri, 23 March 2018 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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Quote:
Voice files of rebels related to San Mona C5 are, as far as i can see, npc_speech.slf -> D_[NPC_ID#]_014.wav,
and only Ira and Dimi appear to have the comments.


Perhaps what I was thinking of was Manuel's (229_016.wav) explanation of how the Queen found out about him - that Kingpin told her.




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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352760 is a reply to message #352759] Fri, 23 March 2018 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Registered:April 2009
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It's been ages since I played classic, but I do recall that enemy patrols eventually touched San Mona there, though given how much more tranquil the game was back then, not often.

Having the AI ignore San Mona doesn't make a lot of sense gamewise, as the player can earn tremendous amounts of money here via Darren & Tony, plus quite a few shops offer a wide array of equipment.

Note that if ASD is active and ENEMYHELI_ACTIVE is TRUE, and the enemy has unlcoked helis (ENEMYHELI_DEFINITE_UNLOCK_AT_PROGRESS), then ASD will not hesitate to airdrop elites into San Mona if you have mercs there. If they have several helis and not many other targets, quite often at that. Counters to that are controlling the airspace, having enough mercs or militia in there to deter this, downing helis with SAM or stinger fire, or sabotaging the helis in the Meduna airfield with spies.



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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352765 is a reply to message #352753] Sat, 24 March 2018 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun

 
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Registered:June 2007
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MeganD wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 15:50


No, that describes Kingpin's gang; they aren't hostile unless my mercs take action. But the out-of-place active duty soldiers do initiate hostilities. They're starting that fight, not my mercs.

Again, no. Kingpin is a regional power. What he says goes in San Mona, but only in San Mona. The 1.13 follow-up to the Angel & Maria questline confirms this; if he wants someone killed outside San Mona, he has to hire contractors.


No Megan. You seem to be taking things literally, and not in perspective. YOU are an enemy of Queen D... her troops know this. Kingpin runs a brothel, is a gangster, and is playing both sides of the coin, durh.

YES, the word on the street is Kingpin and Queen D have an arrangement. Kingpin does NOT work for Queen D, his gangster militia is powerful enough that it is in Queen D's interest to not initiate hostilities with Kingpin.

Kingpins services are beneficial to Queen D.
Kingpin will take your mercs money.
Kingpin will take Queen D's troops money.
If YOU try to take Kingpins money he will fucking kill you.

Queen D's troops will try to murder your mercs anywhere they can find them. Queen D's troops were frequenting "Kingpins town" before your sorry ass mercs showed up ! Do you see a sign anywhere in Arulco that says Queen D's troops are NOT allowed to travel there? Nope you sure don't.

Just because you are annoyed by Queen D's troops attacking YOUR squad anywhere in Arulco doesn't mean you get to rewrite the rules for an unruly Dictator run country. Your troops are hired mercenaries (some would say scum soldiers fighting for $$$$- not ideals), your troops will quit in a heartbeat if you don't pay them on time or they don't like other scum MERCS you have chosen to hire.

Fortunately you can mod, cheat, bend or adjust ALMOST all the rules to accommodate YOUR play style. But you don't get to re-write the entire Arulcan world to suit your personal wants and needs, which is the real beauty of this game. The amazing amount of love and work that modders have done should be appreciated above all.



Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352766 is a reply to message #352765] Sat, 24 March 2018 07:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MeganD

 
Messages:11
Registered:March 2018
There's no point in arguing about this, since Flugente has indicated it's not a bug and it won't change. I'm content to let the matter rest, but I'm puzzled by your weird level of hostility.
Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352767 is a reply to message #352748] Sat, 24 March 2018 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
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Registered:May 2009
MeganD wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 09:36
silversurfer wrote on Fri, 23 March 2018 09:52
Removing the garrison entry from GarrisonGroups.xml may help but I wouldn't do it during a campaign. It may break things.

But that would just remove the initial group, wouldn't it? - and subsequent patrols might still squat there?

No, garrisons are a place that is guarded by enemy troops. Depending on the difficulty level all of them could be occupied at the start of the game. If you kill soldiers at one garrison the AI can decide to reinforce it over time. The priority value defines how important that place is. There is also a population value that defines how many soldiers should be there. If a patrol happens to come across a garrison they may decide to reinforce it if there are less soldiers than the desired amount.

That's why I don't understand that patrols stay at C5 in your game. The desired population is 0. Maybe they just like the whores? ;-)



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Re: San Mona occupied?[message #352768 is a reply to message #352767] Sat, 24 March 2018 12:13 Go to previous message
MeganD

 
Messages:11
Registered:March 2018
Oh I see, thanks! I'll make a backup save and give it a shot. :)
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