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Item price evaluation[message #352844] Fri, 30 March 2018 15:51 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3309
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As we have added a lot of items and new properties for items over the years, item prices have not been balanced as well. Additionally the prices we use are more or less guesswork as well. This affects not only items, but also any other aspect of the game where money is a factor, like mercenary wages. Essentially the entire economy of the game is pretty wacky.

I plan to address that. First, let's start with something relatively simple - price of melee weapons.

This is the current stock arsenal.

The crowbar value is 0 if the item isn't a crowbar, 1 if it is, and 2 if it also has a CrowbarModifier > 0.
The lockpick value is 0 if the item isn't a lockpick, 1 if it has a negative LockPickModifier, 2 if it's 0, and 3 if it also has a LockPickModifier > 0.
dp4t is Impact * ShotsPer4Turns, to measure the raw damage that can be dealt out.
The New value uses the entries to calculate a price on how useful an item is to the player. This is what I want items to cost. I use the following formula:
FLOAT calcvalue = (FLOAT)( ( Weapon[item].ubImpact ) * (80.0f + Weapon[item].ubShotsPer4Turns) / 80.0f ) * ( 1.0f	// the 80.0f is there so speed is less important than raw damage
					+ 0.05f * ( 30 - Item[item].ubWeight )						// the less weight, the bigger bonus
					+ 0.02f * Item[item].bRepairEase
					+ 0.02f * Item[item].bReliability
					- 0.2f * Item[item].twohanded							// penalty for twohanded items
					+ 0.1f * HasItemFlag( item, COVERT )						// covert items will be useful to spies
					+ 0.08f * Item[item].brassknuckles						// brassknuckles can be used in boxing without breaking the rules
					)
					
					// These are flat modifiers. They are independent of the use as a weapon itself, but should be priced in
					+ 20.0f * Item[item].wirecutters						// price of a simple wirecutter
					+ 10.0f * crowbarvalue								// seems appropriate
					+ 200.0f * lockpickvalue							// the normal lockpick costs $250, but has a higher modifier
					+ 30.0f * ( Item[item].usFlashLightRange ? 1 : 0 )				// $30 seems okay for a flashlight
					+ 3.0f * ( Item[item].usItemClass & ( IC_BLADE ) )				// blades allow us to access corpses and defend against snakes
					+ 50.0f * HasItemFlag( item, TASER )						// the stun gun does no damage, but knocks out enemies
					;

and then round it. Of course the weights in that formula are highly subjective.

Item Name                  ; Index; Impact; ShotsPer4Turns; Weight; RepairEase; Reliability; twohanded; wirecutter; crowbar; lockpick; flashlight; b.knuckle; stun; Covert; Price;    dp4t;   New;

BLADES
Combat Knife               ;    37;     17;          14.00;      9;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   100;  238.00;    53;
Young Male Claws           ;    43;     14;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  140.00;    51;
Adult Male Claws           ;    44;     18;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  180.00;    63;
Young Female Claws         ;    45;     20;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  200.00;    68;
Adult Female Creature Claws;    46;     24;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  240.00;    80;
Bloodcat Claws             ;    52;     12;          14.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  168.00;    47;
Bloodcat Bite              ;    53;     24;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  240.00;    80;
Machete                    ;    54;     25;          11.00;     13;          3;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  275.00;    66;
Utility Knife              ;   299;     10;          15.00;      2;         -1;           2;         0;          0;       0;        1;          0;         0;    0;      1;   100;  150.00;   242;
Light Knife                ;   300;     13;          18.00;      5;          1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    45;  234.00;    48;
Exacto Knife               ;   301;      9;          22.00;      1;          4;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     7;  198.00;    41;
Ka-Bar Cutlass             ;   593;     20;          12.00;      5;          2;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   180;  240.00;    65;
KCB Knife                  ;   594;     16;          14.00;      4;          0;           0;         0;          1;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   130;  224.00;    75;
SOG Seal 2000              ;   595;     18;          15.00;      4;          1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   150;  270.00;    62;
Steak Knife                ;   598;     12;          20.00;      1;          2;          -2;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     4;  240.00;    49;
Sabre                      ;   599;     27;          13.50;     12;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   300;  364.50;    72;
Rambo Knife                ;   600;     21;          12.00;     11;          0;           2;         0;          0;       1;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   150;  252.00;    70;
Katana                     ;  1055;     28;          14.60;     20;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;  2000;  408.80;    62;
Sam Garver Combat Knife    ;  1353;     20;          14.00;      9;          1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   350;  280.00;    61;
MERC Umbrella              ;  1361;     12;          10.46;      6;         -3;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    20;  125.52;    41;
Letter Opener              ;  1638;     12;          20.00;      2;          2;          -3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     5;  240.00;    48;
Hedge Trimmer              ;  1639;     25;          11.00;     15;         -1;           0;         0;          1;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  275.00;    81;

PUNCH WEAPONS
Knuckle Dusters            ;    49;     14;          15.00;      1;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         1;    0;      0;    20;  210.00;    42;
Crowbar                    ;    64;     22;          10.00;     30;         -4;           0;         0;          0;       1;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    40;  220.00;    33;
Retractable Baton          ;   297;     15;          16.00;      5;         -1;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    30;  240.00;    40;
Nightstick                 ;   298;     16;          13.00;     12;          2;           3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    40;  208.00;    37;
Shovel                     ;  1015;     24;           9.00;     20;         -2;           0;         1;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    10;  216.00;    34;
Nunchaku                   ;  1054;     26;          20.00;     10;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   120;  520.00;    65;
Pipe Wrench                ;  1202;     21;          10.00;     25;         -2;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  210.00;    29;
Garotte                    ;  1579;     10;           8.00;      1;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;    35;   80.00;    28;
Stun Gun                   ;  1626;      4;          12.00;      4;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         1;    1;      0;    60;   48.00;    61;
Flashlight                 ;  1636;     18;          10.00;      5;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         1;    0;      0;    50;  180.00;    47;
Flashlight                 ;  1637;     18;          10.00;      5;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          1;         1;    0;      0;    50;  180.00;    77;


I then modified the items a bit - altered damage, speed, twohanded, brassknuckle and covert tags - and came up with this:

Item Name                  ; Index; Impact; ShotsPer4Turns; Weight; RepairEase; Reliability; twohanded; wirecutter; crowbar; lockpick; flashlight; b.knuckle; stun; Covert; Price;    dp4t;   New;

BLADES
Combat Knife               ;    37;     17;          17.00;      6;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   100;  289.00;    57;
Young Male Claws           ;    43;     14;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  140.00;    51;
Adult Male Claws           ;    44;     18;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  180.00;    63;
Young Female Claws         ;    45;     20;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  200.00;    68;
Adult Female Creature Claws;    46;     24;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  240.00;    80;
Bloodcat Claws             ;    52;     12;          14.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  168.00;    47;
Bloodcat Bite              ;    53;     24;          10.00;      0;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  240.00;    80;
Machete                    ;    54;     26;          11.00;      8;          3;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  286.00;    76;
Utility Knife              ;   299;      9;          15.00;      2;         -1;           2;         0;          0;       0;        1;          0;         0;    0;      1;   100;  135.00;   239;
Light Knife                ;   300;     15;          18.00;      5;          1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    45;  270.00;    54;
Exacto Knife               ;   301;      8;          17.00;      1;          4;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;     7;  136.00;    37;
Ka-Bar Cutlass             ;   593;     20;          14.00;      5;          2;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   180;  280.00;    66;
KCB Knife                  ;   594;     16;          16.00;      4;          0;           0;         0;          1;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   130;  256.00;    76;
SOG Seal 2000              ;   595;     18;          16.50;      4;          1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   150;  297.00;    63;
Steak Knife                ;   598;     11;          15.00;      1;          2;          -2;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     4;  165.00;    44;
Sabre                      ;   599;     27;          13.50;     12;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   300;  364.50;    72;
Rambo Knife                ;   600;     20;          14.50;      6;          0;           2;         0;          0;       1;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   150;  290.00;    75;
Katana                     ;  1055;     31;          12.00;     15;         -1;           1;         1;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;  2000;  372.00;    67;
Sam Garver Combat Knife    ;  1353;     20;          15.00;      5;          1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   350;  300.00;    66;
MERC Umbrella              ;  1361;     15;          11.00;      6;         -3;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;    20;  165.00;    50;
Letter Opener              ;  1638;     10;          15.00;      2;          2;          -3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     5;  150.00;    40;
Hedge Trimmer              ;  1639;     24;          10.00;     29;         -1;           0;         1;          1;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  240.00;    54;

PUNCH WEAPONS
Knuckle Dusters            ;    49;     14;          15.00;      1;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         1;    0;      1;    20;  210.00;    44;
Crowbar                    ;    64;     24;           9.00;     24;         -4;           0;         0;          0;       2;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    40;  216.00;    53;
Retractable Baton          ;   297;     15;          16.00;      5;         -1;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    30;  240.00;    40;
Nightstick                 ;   298;     16;          13.00;     12;          2;           3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    40;  208.00;    37;
Shovel                     ;  1015;     24;           9.00;     20;         -2;           0;         1;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    10;  216.00;    34;
Nunchaku                   ;  1054;     26;          20.00;     10;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   120;  520.00;    65;
Pipe Wrench                ;  1202;     21;           8.00;     20;         -2;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  168.00;    34;
Garotte                    ;  1579;     10;           8.00;      1;          0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;    35;   80.00;    28;
Stun Gun                   ;  1626;      4;          10.00;      4;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    1;      0;    60;   40.00;    60;
Flashlight                 ;  1636;     18;          11.00;      5;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  198.00;    46;
Flashlight                 ;  1637;     18;          11.00;      5;         -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          1;         0;    0;      0;    50;  198.00;    76;


One possible issue for most will likely be that items that were previously extremely cheap, like the exacto knife, steak knife and letter opener, are now in line with the other items, while the high-damage knives aren't that much more expensive.

The issue is that we need to figure out what an item price should be. Should the price depend on an item's real-world price? Or should the price depend on the actual usefulness of an item ingame?

I obviously lean towards the second (I have some extreme examples of bizarre price relations once we get to firearms), but I'm eager for input.

[Updated on: Fri, 30 March 2018 17:44]




Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: Item price evaluation[message #352846 is a reply to message #352844] Fri, 30 March 2018 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:143
Registered:December 2017
Location: here
If the new price evaluation still allows to the get the same equipment for same amount of money,
it does not matter much whether its balance or irl based,
while remarkably lower/higher price of "standard equipment stuff" may have big impact on hardest difficulty because of small budget.

Perhaps make exceptions for items which are mundane like mentioned cheap knives, tools, drinks, food, marbles & other misc stuff,
to keep it somewhat reasonable and last not least because some are required for other actions like fortify, get uniform, hack console ...
and maybe also increase price of very rare items like the WA2000.

[Updated on: Fri, 30 March 2018 17:32]

Re: Item price evaluation[message #352847 is a reply to message #352846] Fri, 30 March 2018 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3309
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Any specific input on the items mentioned above?

As to the WA2000, I don't see why. Ingame it is the same as any other SR. The item does nothing that indicates why it shuld get an exorbitant price compared to other rifles who do the exact same thing. The entire point of this change is to do away with arbitrary, illogical prices and to come closer to prices being in some relation of how useful an item is.

[Updated on: Fri, 30 March 2018 17:39]




Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: Item price evaluation[message #352851 is a reply to message #352847] Fri, 30 March 2018 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2295
Registered:May 2009
Actually I heavily favor real world price. I know this is a game and needs balancing but using an artificial "balancing price" just seems wrong to me. After all this is Jagged Alliance and not some <insert random name here> shooter that uses fantasy weapons. Implementing "realism" features was always a good thing so we shouldn't remove one aspect of realism now without need. Some items are more expensive than others. That's just the way it is. The game isn't broken just because an item is too expensive for a player that loves exactly this weapon.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Item price evaluation[message #352852 is a reply to message #352847] Fri, 30 March 2018 19:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3807
Registered:July 2009
Why does the Katana cost two thousand dollars? That's an obscene price fit for master crafted blades whereas I expect the in game items to be more like sharpened 150$ wallhangers.

And for the record, I also lean heavily towards (maybe slightly tweaked) RL prices. It just wouldn't make sense to me to find a 100$ box cutter.

[Updated on: Fri, 30 March 2018 20:03]




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Re: Item price evaluation[message #352857 is a reply to message #352852] Sat, 31 March 2018 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob

 
Messages:386
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
Auto-balancing is very difficult to get right because often there just isn't enough information in game statistics for the algorithm to make a properly informed decision. The examples are already in this thread - the box cutter ought to be cheap since it's a mundane and inexpensive tool, but its stats put it on par with cheap combat knives. The WA2000 is a exceptionally crafted collector's item but its stats don't reflect that either. But that's just one of the issues.

Consider two pistols - same range, RoF, reliability and weight, all relatively good values, but one does 30dmg, the other 15. The latter one isn't even going to be half as useful, typically a 15dmg peashooter would be less useful than killing enemies with bare fists. It might help if the 15dmg gun was a quick, light and tiny pocket gun, but overall it still wouldn't be very useful. There's two relations to consider here:

First, the measure of effectiveness isn't a sum, it's a ratio of costs vs benefits the item provides - in this case, the costs are weight and AP to fire, the benefits the damage and range. Obviously there's more stats to consider and they all should have weights.

Second, how the items actually work out is decided by game mechanics and cannot be inferred just looking at their stats. Again, the algorithm needs more information to estimate usefulness. One way of handling this is setting a reference point, an item considered to be well balanced, and adjusting the estimate for other items based on how much better/worse they are. Also, this probably needs to scale exponentially, so considering a baseline of 25dmg for handguns, a gun doing 30dmg would be considered very good, while a gun doing 15dmg would be properly classified as severely lacking, unless its range/RoF were exceptional.

Re: Item price evaluation[message #352867 is a reply to message #352857] Sat, 31 March 2018 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:143
Registered:December 2017
Location: here
Input on a specific item which has not already been mentioed by others is the stun gun,
which imo should cost much more when based on ingame effectivity,
because the chance of a successful hit is pretty high(when targeting legs!),
and the resulting effect on target gives 100% success chance with garotte, effectively taking the victim out.
(Victim in water even dies immediately)
Additionally the stun gun is literally silent, i.e. with precise play it allows to stay unnoticed
(respectively stay at condition "turn based ends immediately when we hit D(one").
Backdraw is that player may be forced to buy stun guns in order to get batteries,
as the con to make it too expensive


Besides i think unrealistic visible/obvious parameters for stuff is more immersion breaking for player
than invisible calculations not being optimized or have minor flaws.
So i also favour realism over balance, but not as in black or white,
neither should be allowed to damage the other.


Since i am not an JA2 expert, Wizardry8 example for getting values from calculation:
Wiz8 v1.0 exe contains a function to recalculate the exp value of monters in its database,
(needs cm-wz8tr.exe to enable: "development mode" acording to ingame message)
obviously used by devs to get xp values based on parameters they considered to fit,
most likely related to what the world provides in matters of exp pts from placed monsters and
number of expectable spawns(they are infinite) in average playthrough, etc (game has xp lvl cap)
Based on years(seriously) of playtesting a huge number of different new wiz8 monsters, some with extreme values,
many of them got xp values assiged from the exe which did not take stuff into account
that proved to be decisive in the test playthroughs(tried to cover a wide range of player approaches)
Apparently the exes(=devs) calculation has flaws when extreme values/abilities are in play.
(e.g. multiple glasscannon variations, immune to magic, reinforcements/companions ...)
Also several endgame monsters have exp pt values far beyond calculation of exe,
probably because new monsters cause higher overall xp, reducing xp for each encounter,
making early game as already hardest part even harder, but little to no effect on late game


Last not least there is the point of gimmicks in games.
Many players love them and i think they are good for motivation,
just have to be kept small enough not to outbalance the system.
For Ja2 this means(among other things) that a price system based on ingame effectivity
will remove the gimmick to decide for a gun which we think is the best buy for its purpose,
(and even 151,99$ cheaper than the weapon which the specific player considers inferior ;)
as calcuated price range is tiny for all other stuff with rather identical attributes.
Perhaps the latter could be partially adressed with the already mentioned non linear disribution,
and a random modifier leading to small variations from caculated item value,
even 2x or 1/2 is imo ok for very rare rng results,
ppeferably "rolled" again for each playthrough, if not too much effort,
adding an "how much my favourite gear cost in this playthrough" effect to game start.




Quote:
Why does the Katana cost two thousand dollars?
That's an obscene price fit for master crafted blades whereas I expect the in game items to be more like sharpened 150$ wallhangers.

2k is still acceptable if a single neck attack would not drain its condition
from 100% to below 95%(which i already consider as questionable for guns)
Re: Item price evaluation[message #352870 is a reply to message #352867] Sat, 31 March 2018 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3807
Registered:July 2009
Coincidentally, Extra Credit did a very relevant episode on this discussion a couple days ago:

TL;DW: No, go back and watch it ffs, it's not even 7min. But essentially, watch out with that damage column.



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Re: Item price evaluation[message #352953 is a reply to message #352870] Wed, 04 April 2018 22:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3309
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hmpf. Perhaps it would be reasonable to use calculated prices, adjust them per hand in a few cases (exacto Knife, Katana...) and then alter the coolness? I've added coolness, these are the current coolness values at the second to last column:

Item Name                  ; Index; Impact;  SP4T; Weight; Rep.Ease; Reliability; twohanded; wirecutter; crowbar; lockpick; flashlight; b.knuckle; stun; Covert; Price;    dp4t; coolness;   New;

BLADES
Combat Knife               ;    37;     17; 17.00;      6;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   100;  289.00;        2;    65;
Young Male Claws           ;    43;     14; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  140.00;        0;    60;
Adult Male Claws           ;    44;     18; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  180.00;        0;    75;
Young Female Claws         ;    45;     20; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  200.00;        0;    80;
Adult Female Creature Claws;    46;     24; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  240.00;        0;    95;
Bloodcat Claws             ;    52;     12; 14.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  168.00;        0;    55;
Bloodcat Bite              ;    53;     24; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  240.00;        0;    95;
Machete                    ;    54;     26; 11.00;      8;        3;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  286.00;        3;    90;
Utility Knife              ;   299;      9; 15.00;      2;       -1;           2;         0;          0;       0;        1;          0;         0;    0;      1;   100;  135.00;        3;   245;
Light Knife                ;   300;     15; 18.00;      5;        1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    45;  270.00;        2;    65;
Exacto Knife               ;   301;      8; 17.00;      1;        4;          -4;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;     7;  136.00;        1;    40;
Ka-Bar Cutlass             ;   593;     20; 14.00;      5;        2;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   180;  280.00;        3;    80;
KCB Knife                  ;   594;     16; 16.00;      4;        0;           0;         0;          1;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   130;  256.00;        2;    85;
SOG Seal 2000              ;   595;     18; 16.50;      4;        1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   150;  297.00;        2;    75;
Steak Knife                ;   598;     11; 15.00;      1;        2;          -3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     4;  165.00;        1;    50;
Sabre                      ;   599;     27; 13.50;     12;       -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   300;  364.50;        5;    85;
Rambo Knife                ;   600;     20; 14.50;      6;        0;           2;         0;          0;       1;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   150;  290.00;        4;    85;
Katana                     ;  1055;     31; 12.00;     15;       -4;           1;         1;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;  2000;  372.00;        5;    75;
Sam Garver Combat Knife    ;  1353;     20; 15.00;      5;        1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   350;  300.00;        2;    80;
MERC Umbrella              ;  1361;     15; 11.00;      6;       -3;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;    20;  165.00;        2;    60;
Letter Opener              ;  1638;     10; 15.00;      2;        2;          -3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     5;  150.00;        1;    45;
Hedge Trimmer              ;  1639;     24; 10.00;     29;       -2;           0;         1;          1;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  240.00;        3;    60;

PUNCH WEAPONS
Knuckle Dusters            ;    49;     14; 15.00;      1;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         1;    0;      1;    20;  210.00;        2;    55;
Crowbar                    ;    64;     24;  9.00;     24;       -2;           1;         0;          0;       2;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    40;  216.00;        1;    60;
Retractable Baton          ;   297;     15; 16.00;      5;       -1;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    30;  240.00;        2;    50;
Nightstick                 ;   298;     16; 13.00;     12;        2;           3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    40;  208.00;        3;    45;
Shovel                     ;  1015;     24;  9.00;     20;       -2;           0;         1;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    10;  216.00;        1;    40;
Nunchaku                   ;  1054;     26; 20.00;     10;       -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   120;  520.00;        5;    80;
Pipe Wrench                ;  1202;     21;  8.00;     20;       -2;           2;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  168.00;        1;    45;
Garotte                    ;  1579;     10;  8.00;      1;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;    35;   80.00;        4;    35;
Stun Gun                   ;  1626;      4; 10.00;      4;       -1;          -2;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    1;      0;    60;   40.00;        2;    60;
Flashlight                 ;  1636;     18; 11.00;      5;       -1;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  198.00;        2;    55;
Flashlight                 ;  1637;     18; 11.00;      5;       -1;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          1;         0;    0;      0;    50;  198.00;        2;    85;


I would change coolness and price in the last two columns, resutling in

Item Name                  ; Index; Impact;  SP4T; Weight; Rep.Ease; Reliability; twohanded; wirecutter; crowbar; lockpick; flashlight; b.knuckle; stun; Covert; Price;    dp4t; coolness;   New;

BLADES
Combat Knife               ;    37;     17; 17.00;      6;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   100;  289.00;        3;    65;
Young Male Claws           ;    43;     14; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  140.00;        0;    60;
Adult Male Claws           ;    44;     18; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  180.00;        0;    75;
Young Female Claws         ;    45;     20; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  200.00;        0;    80;
Adult Female Creature Claws;    46;     24; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  240.00;        0;    95;
Bloodcat Claws             ;    52;     12; 14.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  168.00;        0;    55;
Bloodcat Bite              ;    53;     24; 10.00;      0;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     0;  240.00;        0;    95;
Machete                    ;    54;     26; 11.00;      8;        3;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  286.00;        3;    90;
Utility Knife              ;   299;      9; 15.00;      2;       -1;           2;         0;          0;       0;        1;          0;         0;    0;      1;   100;  135.00;        2;   245;
Light Knife                ;   300;     15; 18.00;      5;        1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    45;  270.00;        2;    65;
Exacto Knife               ;   301;      8; 17.00;      1;        4;          -4;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;     7;  136.00;        1;    10;
Ka-Bar Cutlass             ;   593;     20; 14.00;      5;        2;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   180;  280.00;        4;    80;
KCB Knife                  ;   594;     16; 16.00;      4;        0;           0;         0;          1;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   130;  256.00;        4;    85;
SOG Seal 2000              ;   595;     18; 16.50;      4;        1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   150;  297.00;        5;    75;
Steak Knife                ;   598;     11; 15.00;      1;        2;          -3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     4;  165.00;        1;    15;
Sabre                      ;   599;     27; 13.50;     12;       -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   300;  364.50;        5;   135;
Rambo Knife                ;   600;     20; 14.50;      6;        0;           2;         0;          0;       1;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   150;  290.00;        4;    85;
Katana                     ;  1055;     31; 12.00;     15;       -4;           1;         1;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;  2000;  372.00;        6;   200;
Sam Garver Combat Knife    ;  1353;     20; 15.00;      5;        1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   350;  300.00;        5;   100;
MERC Umbrella              ;  1361;     15; 11.00;      6;       -3;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;    20;  165.00;        4;    80;
Letter Opener              ;  1638;     10; 15.00;      2;        2;          -3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;     5;  150.00;        1;    25;
Hedge Trimmer              ;  1639;     24; 10.00;     29;       -2;           0;         1;          1;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  240.00;        3;    60;

PUNCH WEAPONS
Knuckle Dusters            ;    49;     14; 15.00;      1;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         1;    0;      1;    20;  210.00;        2;    25;
Crowbar                    ;    64;     24;  9.00;     24;       -2;           1;         0;          0;       2;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    40;  216.00;        1;    60;
Retractable Baton          ;   297;     15; 16.00;      5;       -1;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    30;  240.00;        2;    50;
Nightstick                 ;   298;     16; 13.00;     12;        2;           3;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    40;  208.00;        2;    45;
Shovel                     ;  1015;     24;  9.00;     20;       -2;           0;         1;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    10;  216.00;        2;    40;
Nunchaku                   ;  1054;     26; 20.00;     10;       -1;           1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;   120;  520.00;        6;   100;
Pipe Wrench                ;  1202;     21;  8.00;     20;       -2;           2;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  168.00;        1;    45;
Garotte                    ;  1579;     10;  8.00;      1;        0;           0;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      1;    35;   80.00;        4;    35;
Stun Gun                   ;  1626;      4; 10.00;      4;       -1;          -2;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    1;      0;    60;   40.00;        5;    60;
Flashlight                 ;  1636;     18; 11.00;      5;       -1;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          0;         0;    0;      0;    50;  198.00;        2;    85;
Flashlight                 ;  1637;     18; 11.00;      5;       -1;          -1;         0;          0;       0;        0;          1;         0;    0;      0;    50;  198.00;        2;    85;


Note that quite a few of these aren't in enemy item selection anyway.



Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: Item price evaluation[message #352961 is a reply to message #352953] Thu, 05 April 2018 07:31 Go to previous message
Victor_Tadeu

 
Messages:61
Registered:December 2015
Location: Brazil
I like the algorithm idea to balance out the bulk of the items, but some items should keep their per hand values based on real life counterpart for immersion value and roleplay, like the mentioned WA2000 and some others rare, premium, unique, collector or prototype weapons. It may also work the other way around, some weapons being cheaper than they should because of their real life availability, like some of the super mass produced AK variantes.



Born, play JA2, die, reload, die again, reload again.
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