Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance & Deadly Games » JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354129 is a reply to message #354123]
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Mon, 23 July 2018 14:10  
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 Jahh |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2017 |
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Quote:Modifying guns via a chunk of steel increases their range and damage output as well, but it is best to save those for the high end guns, but make sure you use a few for your .357 magnums so you can fit them with a a silencer, that makes taking over the processing plants without them being sabotaged much easier.
Keeping aside other mentioned stuff (and its doesn't mean that its right, just way less important) ill clarify one (no, two) common misconception quoted above.
Its not best to "save them for the high end guns", its about using them to make a modified gun increasing your team performance. There is not much relative difference between modified and non-modified M16 for example: player rarely (lets use that word) shoot outside a max range of it, as its already huge, and increasing it more of little value; "aiming bonus" (actually penalty-to-resist) is already high too, so the same applying; slightly more damage is better, but again, damage is already high enough.
Contrary to it, relative difference between Colt and Modified Colt is huge. Modified Colt is nearly Magnum357 (exact range and damage), beside having a slightly worse "aiming bonus" and firing speed (as chunk of steel is not affect it); so by modifying a colt with the first CoS found in sector 49 you immediately got a weapon that outrange all the weapons enemy possess in a day 1 (beside one with M14 and one with .357 in sector 38), so you able to fight in sector 38 already using some relatively long range gun (with abundant ammo). But way more important is relation between range of gun and the distance the enemy see you. Assuming you using a camo, using a Modified Colt you can already do in-range shots while being initially unnoticed. Also damage increase is enough to reliable kill\severely damage opponent with 2 close shots, while damage of reg. Colt is way too low. Back to a "high-end" guns - range is way above the seeing distance of opponent outright, damage is already high, no increase is really important, oppositely, you modify a top rifles, if you already use only those rifles, and nobody lagging with weak weapon. So after Colt, its better to spend next 2 CoS from sector 46 to Beretta and Magnum (to have a better ammo usage, and because you shouldnt have a more than one good Beretta(that from sector 28) by that time anyway); despite you should have a M14 already - again, M14 or Modified M14 is nearly same thing by that time, while Beretta is a same gun your opponent will use, and Modified Beretta is instead a way above them in all senses. Later CoS are way less important, but prior its all an automatic rifles there is still a time to use CoS from sector 25 to auto-shotgun from sector 37 (but this upgrade is not even relatively gamebreaking compared to first 2).
Taking of processing plant with help of silencers is sorta a myth. Actually really important thing in stealthy mission contrary to it is a Live explosive. Silencers are nearly useless items overall, and cannot guarantee your stealth mission any success. Stealth missions in JA1 are overcomplicated and require a precise knowledge of possible locations of remote-detonator guy, aswell as stationary detonator too. Silencers are cannot help you to prevent a vision detection, and it will likely will result in blast very soon. While you can (and want) use a heavy rifles there (its very opposite of using a silencers) if you know what you doing. Problem with silencers is what they mean a weak damage from pistols, and as you cannot let a target live next turn there (he will raise alarm then) it mean you need a lot of pistol shots then, as also likely you have an exact detection distance between you. And its way worse if there is more than one opponent nearby. But surely this myth is have an explanation, playing on a lower difficulties will mean less opponents in sector, playing slow will mean it too, and in case of only 3 enemies its possibly to "just play stealth and win", but silencers have no major effect there.
[Updated on: Mon, 23 July 2018 15:18] Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354136 is a reply to message #354135]
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Tue, 24 July 2018 00:58
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| Jahh |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2017 |
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First magnum in sector 40 require repair, you cant use it first or second day (and repairing it is a real waste of precious mechanic time, after day 1 you should repair a shotgun from sector 48 and spectra armor from sector 20, not crappy handgun). Ammo to it there is trapped (ammo isnt of real problem there on its own, there is enough of it, but if you so bravely to rush into trapped ammo, does it mean you just reload if you fail? Even Fidel have only about 75% success chance, so 1/4 of tries he will blow, 4 packs of magnum ammo definitely not worth a risk there (hint: at least mention the magnum ammo from sector 39 next time, its same 4 boxes, and its ready to use, dont rely on that obsolete guide you're quoting, its really obsolete and shallow)). Damage from 2 modded silenced pistols is too weak to reliably win a stealth mission (whats your win % of it btw? or its "ill just reload if ill fail it and they blow it and try again"? In that case you dont need any silencer too, just reload). To have a ~97% success chance you need a pretty special way for each factory, and every one of them include a blowing a wall. And none of them require a use of silencer.
You totally missed a point about Modified Colt. Its not about using it in a stealth mission, its about breaking a day 1 with it. Good player should take at least 7 sectors there on a Hard without save\loads (to be able to hire Magic), and its really hard without Modified Colt (of course its also about have main mercs non-wounded). But ideally, player should take 10 sectors that day(really-really ideally its 11, but its about luck already), and its nearly impossible without it (of course its also about have main mercs non-wounded). Whats amount of sectors you doing using that "MORE sense" way? About 5?
[Updated on: Tue, 24 July 2018 01:25] Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354138 is a reply to message #354137]
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Tue, 24 July 2018 04:04
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| Jahh |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2017 |
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The question itself here of really little value, and i see no reason to even touch it, as OP didnt bothered to put it into a topic created for em, and created it as a new one instead. While your answer contained a 2 misconceptions not unique to it, but rather common, so i decided to comment it and clarify, as it could be misguiding to somebody else, thats all (i didnt touched initial theme, tho line "If they have an a modified spectra shield with ultra shield vest, then you should try and find some of those for your own mercs" was particularly high and tempting, must confess).
[Updated on: Tue, 24 July 2018 04:06] Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354143 is a reply to message #354141]
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Wed, 25 July 2018 10:56
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| townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
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Enneagon wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 03:08... really weird concept about helping people. +1
TT:
Not sure whether its part of the game you have to deal with but think so,
JA's balancing mechanics appears not even to slightly try to not make player treated unfair.
Ergo thank Pasta [<- insert name of preferred diety] we got JA2
Grenades may prevent interupts unless JA also has some elites on steroids who even then get an interrupt
to stand up, aim and fire before any other team member can act, effecticely breaking sequences.
Seen that a couple of times in 1.13 and iirc also in vanilla JA2.
But even if thats succesful in preventing interrupts, the game is short on grenades, so:
If a game cheats on you, cheat back!
E.g. note all dmg of these impossible interrupts, and undo it in ram, e.g. with HxD:
Open process and search for [characters name] in ram until you find all team members names listed in 512 byte distance to each other,
followed by guards, sappers and enemies. (at least in combat, didnt check in a friendly sector)
Values of [current HP][max HP] in hex are listed at 16h and 17h relative offfset to [charname].
Breath dmg should also be there, copy 512 bytes in front and behind of [charname],
save as new file, then do the same after taking dmg, binary compare of the 2 files should reveal offset for breath dmg.
Other values may also change, use try and error, make sure not to reset experience subpoints.
Dont worry about corrupting game, just never allow the game to save data unless totally sure you changed the correct values.
Armour can be repaired with save game editor, although cheated and justified dmg is hard to separate.
Perhaps string of armour identified in savegame compare after edit can be found in ram,
so you can also repair instantly and have correct protection in ongoing battle.
Optionally you could prevent unjustified interrupts by setting a targets AP to zero when you shoot at it.
To identify target, a drastic temporary change of its HP may help.
Besides there is a JA2 Metavira mod where mercs dont commit suicide by dropping weapons in firefight because their shift is over,
mules can collect loot over night in frienly territory, and the stupid 1turn=5min rule is to your favour;)
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354144 is a reply to message #354141]
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Wed, 25 July 2018 13:49
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| Jahh |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2017 |
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Quote:Wow. You have really weird concept about helping people.
Ofc not, there is nothing weird in penalizing ones who, for example deliberately not reading after asked for a help (as its impossible to help by writing an answer to somebody who is not reading; answer written or not is the same for that person, and answer not written is obviously more effective for one who is answering), or act some other non-collaborating way. Total majority of human beings have this concept(supposedly weird for you) actually, suppose ill ask you for a help me with MoO2 save editor (ofc i know you're unable to it, but thats of no matter now, just as an example) but also will call you a "d@mb@uck Nazi Latvian sc$m" (to clarify it twice: its purely a very clear example to let you get it straight, as you seems to bother about "concept"; im not calling or treat you this way)), your concept about helping people (regarding me) will become also weird, will stay where it was, something else? Im able to do tell many things about this game one wouldnt get in any other place, but ofc it require a dedication from one who ask too, dont forger, im already know that stuff, one who ask about it need it, not me. And as the requirements i did set are really low (read what is written to you; do what you kindly asked for, if it needed to help you & dont be a general moron) i slightly wonder what would be a "non-weird" concept for ya.
Supposedly i should like the townltu way of helping tho, to confess of not knowing an answer, then to advice to treat game as if it cheating (??), so going straight to cheats too, and suggesting a nice subtle way of ruining a save file, followed with a proper disclaimer:
Quote:Dont worry about corrupting game, just never allow the game to save data unless totally sure you changed the correct values.
(actually im not, but as that guy is just invented a save comparison method this week, maybe he will come with some actual valuable results soon, maybe ill change my mind then; tho general idea of "got a question on something bout game? wonder why it is? just do a savegame cheat and set some values the way you want instead" is, well, refreshing or so).
[Updated on: Wed, 25 July 2018 14:48] Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354146 is a reply to message #354144]
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Wed, 25 July 2018 16:27
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| townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
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Similar to life guard hears someone calling "Help!"
and lets him/her drown because life guard is convinced that the person can (respectively should be able to) swim?
p.s. since afk for a while and discovered the 2nd section on preview page:
If empiric results show different handling of game entities to player entities, its imo a cheat.
In this case my own experience with JA and what i saw in couple of LP's by players with different expertise lvl,
(i.e. the avg we imo have to consider in our thoughts, & btw the epic attemps of The Tactician come into mind :D
makes me compare the disadvantage to e.g. white JA chessmen transforming into the one with the next lower value when beaten,
while black (= the players) JA chessmen change into 2 categories lower.
I.e white transformation queue is Q>R>B/N>p and for black its Q>B/N & R/B/N>p
A mild cheat which does not overcompensate that built in disadvantage appears more than justified to me,
if you dont like how the code works/data is interpreted,
its fine to change one or both as long as that has no negative effects on any other entities, involved directly or around 23 corners.
Ofc that will prevent people becoming "perfect" on that matter,
but that "perfect" may require more effort than somebody is willing to spend on the matter at all.
"dont worry about corrupting ..."
The "reset HP", "lower enemy AP" and a couple of other manipulations were tested before suggesting them,
although the consequences of errors are less severe than e.g.
whitelist hack on machine with security system that rejects new soldered "ootb" chip,
effectively trashing the machine unless the target chip was cloned (1$ parts rs232 tool;) before tampering data.
Certainly did not invent data compare, despite already using it before 80486 was designed,
and probably not dive deeper into stuff that other people most likely already know (and could tell :p)
think showing options after the effort to confirm they work is already enough.
btw for the record, does it "work" to throw grenades on late game enemies,
or do they have no substancial effect on the enemies chance to get an interrupt?
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354148 is a reply to message #354146]
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Wed, 25 July 2018 19:35
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| Jahh |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2017 |
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Quote:Similar to life guard hears someone calling "Help!"
and lets him/her drown because life guard is convinced that the person can (respectively should be able to) swim?
Setting aside an actual life-threatening aspect not present in our case, that example should involve a guarded beach, a some non-guarded beach place, and a person who went calling "help" into second place, despite being told where the guarded place is. Also it somehow should involve the fact the guards are supposedly paid (and im not a some hotline call operator neither a guy from Army of Salvation). But in short yes, if one is intentionally ignore the life guarded beach, and go other place, despite being warned, if he is also expecting somebody will rush to help, i also have a bridge to sell to him, while he's breathing still, at least he would be of some usage then.
Quote:If empiric results show different handling of game entities to player entities, its imo a cheat.
Assume you immediately kill your mercs if their health is falling below 15 HP then. Or use a save editor to put some stats raised due to experience gain back etc(now i guess im starting to get the save managing weirdness's point, but eh, its a damn laborous stuff). Why you started about it btw, you think there was some "different handling of game entities to player entities" mentioned somewhere in thread or you just brought it for no reason? Playing on a higher difficulty make AI chances to interrupt slightly higher, on normal the same as player, on easier make it even less. Maybe you just should play Normal difficulty instead?
...some long part mostly unreadable probably due to language barrier, if you think there was something worthy, please, rephrase it...
{the only thing i've got from it is about some JA1 LP's - well, there is no worthy ones im aware of by now}
Quote:btw for the record, does it "work" to throw grenades on late game enemies,
or do they have no substancial effect on the enemies chance to get an interrupt?
Why bother about it for a start, just edit a save and kill them or do something else with that save, no? Otherwise you will have to define what "late game" is, for example. In very short approach to answer, yes, falling enemies down will help to drain their AP's. Some grenades affected with armor, some are not, so heavy armor can prevent falling down in case of explosive grenades. Is it what you're was about?
[Updated on: Wed, 25 July 2018 20:11] Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354151 is a reply to message #354141]
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Thu, 26 July 2018 01:31
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| Job3y |
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Messages:10
Registered:March 2017 |
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Enneagon wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 03:08Jahh wrote on Tue, 24 July 2018 04:04The question itself here of really little value, and i see no reason to even touch it, as OP didnt bothered to put it into a topic created for em, and created it as a new one instead.
Wow. You have really weird concept about helping people.
True
[Updated on: Thu, 26 July 2018 01:33] Report message to a moderator
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Private
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354159 is a reply to message #354144]
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Fri, 27 July 2018 01:29
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| Enneagon |
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Messages:51
Registered:July 2016
Location: Latvia |
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First, I sincerely apologise for posting in this tread, readily acknowledging nothing I write have anything to do with the original post. I should have resisted to post my initial notice too; my prediction that it can derail the discussion appear true, and I'm sorry for that.
Secondly, I should stress that I mean no disrespect to Jahh.
Jahh, you are certainly offering valuable service and I appreciate your efforts, all I'm aiming for is to help. Sure, offering unwanted help is in itself rude and annoying, and I apologise for that beforehand.
Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 13:49Enneagon wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 03:08Jahh wrote on Tue, 24 July 2018 04:04The question itself here of really little value, and i see no reason to even touch it, as OP didnt bothered to put it into a topic created for em, and created it as a new one instead.
Wow. You have really weird concept about helping people.
Ofc not,
I apparently should explain myself. A lot of what I have to say I assume to be common knowledge. Even common sense, but no assumptions are wrong so often than assumptions about common sense. Yours are too. Any random person assumptions about common sense are wrong far more likely than not.
1) You explicitly ignore original poster of this tread. All else aside, that is just plain wrong and rude, and even can be qualified as bulling.
2) You have unreasonable expectations. However you want to see it, you are providing a service, and the basic rule for any service is to adjust to the customers. Since you offer voluntary work and enjoy certain level of monopoly, being a rude jerk is a lot more readily tolerated, so you can indeed make "no shirt, no shoes, no service" rules, but that doesn't make it nice, and you still can't expect school children to wear pink cylinder hats.
(Then, for unrelated example, even now, quarter a century after the collapse of soviet state, there are plenty small shops in Rīga, Latvian capital, where you will be denied service if speak in Latvian, the only official state language. Russian is expected instead, English tolerated, but rarely understood. Yes, they are breaking the law. They don't care, and happily pay fines that are way too low, just reinforcing their perceived offense. However, I suspect many of those exist for the sole purpose of money laundering and tax schemes, so they may not be genuinely interested in offering service, much less to that half of population that might object.)
2a) People all around Internet are actively trained to start new treads. It is perfectly expected and default behaviour to start new tread for every question, unless, a tread with exactly the same question in the title exists and offers sufficient explicit answer within first handful of posts. Nobody reads beyond first standard page.
2b) Posting in an old tread is a crime of 'necromancy' and frowned upon. How old is old? Context matter, but in same forums posting a month after last activity is already socially unacceptable; a new thread, even close duplicate, is expected instead. Guidelines differ for Q&A sites where duplicates are actively moderated and closed with a link to existing answer. It is constant battle.
2c) PEOPLE DON'T READ. Really. Paragraphs above 50 words or so (one full smartphone screen), make them 'word blind.' Wall of text beyond 300 words or so is totally lost effort most of the time, it won't be read. You will be best thinking about your audience as ten years old suffering from ADHD. Seriously, it is that bad. Nobody will ever guess they are expected to search for answers in some obscure special tread.
3) Like you or not, what you are attempting to do is teaching. You are by default expected to derive pleasure from the very act. Even if that may not be the case. People often do however, they are passionate and very eager to talk about arkane subjects they supposedly posses in-depth knowledge on. That's why many are eager to post whatever something, just to contribute to the discussion. You, however, sometimes sound like state clerk, paid generously for occupancy of a table, safe for life and totally unaccountable for any results (OK you actually are, that), who will use every excuse possible to deny service and do as little as possible. That impression seems somewhat surprising.
Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 13:49there is nothing weird in penalizing ones who, for example deliberately not reading after asked for a help (as its impossible to help by writing an answer to somebody who is not reading; answer written or not is the same for that person, and answer not written is obviously more effective for one who is answering)
I disagree. It is sad, but rather expected, they will ask away without any prior research, but the direct answer to their questions may very well be the only thing they will ever read about the subject.
Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 13:49 actually, suppose ill ask you for a help me with MoO2 save editor (ofc i know you're unable to it, but thats of no matter now, just as an example)
Accidentally, I actually have my very own star map editor written for MoO2, many years ago in Delphi Pascal. 
Complete with extensive notes about the file, ships, leaders, etc.
Of course that is besides the point, but beautifully show how readily you jump to assumptions.
Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 13:49 but also will call you a "d@mb@uck Nazi Latvian sc$m" (to clarify it twice: its purely a very clear example to let you get it straight, as you seems to bother about "concept"; im not calling or treat you this way)), your concept about helping people (regarding me) will become also weird, will stay where it was, something else?
Sadly I'm totally used to be called that way, Russian state television do that on nearly daily basis, and look above the interlude about Russian only shops. You could coerce a history lesson out of me if I was in the right mood (I'm expectedly passionate about the subject). Offenders usually don't understand differences between exact terms they use; what is perceived as nazism we see as necessary - survival level necessary - nationalism.
It would not in the slightest change my answer on an unrelated (professional) question. I do have to work with those people everyday, we know each other views and ignore them as best as we can.
That they choose to be offended by perceived historical wrongdoing is their personal problems. Being offended is independent function of the receiver. Therefore, it is next to impossible to actually offend me (that way or any other), unless I choose to become.
Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 13:49 Im able to do tell many things about this game one wouldnt get in any other place,
That's exactly why you are willing to tell that, right? And of course, that's what we all appreciate.
Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 13:49but ofc it require a dedication from one who ask too,
Really? Why? Most likely people will have just passing interest, picking up an game that in their eyes may have little more value than famous historic item, encountering a problem, and, without getting help, most likely abandon the ide to try the game forever. Attention spans are very short nowadays, if you fail to help keep his interest, there will be none.
Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 13:49dont forger, im already know that stuff, one who ask about it need it, not me. And as the requirements i did set are really low (read what is written to you; do what you kindly asked for, if it needed to help you & dont be a general moron) i slightly wonder what would be a "non-weird" concept for ya.
I hope, what I write above gives some insight.
[Updated on: Fri, 27 July 2018 02:12] Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354161 is a reply to message #354159]
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Fri, 27 July 2018 05:12
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| Jahh |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2017 |
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Wow, first of all, respect, man, really. Thats the style one rarely show now. Also im glad what i seem to guessed right, and you indeed a really reasonable person, who's not contributing anything on a theme simply because of having no deep feeling to it, while adding some sharp remarks due to way this forum work, with advertising of all themes update to anyone, even not actually following them precisely, so sometimes having something to say at least about conversation flow (and while it sorta derailing indeed, its less offtopic imho than to proposing to play some other game instead as in "answer" in a topic about some game). No offense from you was suggested from mere start, ill try to do shorter response tho (as its generally oftp already, and its way more simple than you trying to dug into).
Enneagon wrote on Fri, 27 July 2018 01:29
I apparently should explain myself. A lot ... ... seems somewhat surprising.
You really overcomplicate it and undercomplicate it same time. Also you supposedly deny most other people of ability to act reasonably, while not seeing anything bad or worrying in it, and suppose other ones to adapt. At the same time you somewhy try to exclude me from the ones with permission to do weird stuff granted by you and again appeared to express some surprise about my actions. Any particular reason of simply not to adapt to it instead i could learn maybe?
1) I did it not more explicitly than you or most other people here on that planet.
But first of all, to clarify it from the start, original poster already posted some quasi-answer in a topic of mine. Thats not like "he just used to write some question in some new thread, and dont expect him to check other ones first". He checked, and even wrote there. So we're into 2 possible suggestions: he is really bad at reading and read only random parts of topic he's answering in - then there is little sense to bother writing more to him, as we know he's not actually reading, so its a waste of my, valuable, personal time. That i would use instead for moving more closer to next release of patch for this game, for example, or for cooking some food for family etc, it wouldnt be highly likely wasted then. Second suggestion will be him actually reading the threads he answering in etc, but explicitly ignoring my words there without any explanation given; obviously there is really little sense for me to act other way on my own, why should i, as its purely non-friendly act (as a reminder: im not a Sir-Tech, Nordic Games or whatever company do the stuff now, neither Salvation Army person, im not paid for it, and im not driven crazy on charity; just show dedication to the Game i like - and ill try to help you if i can, just ask about it in a place, that comfortable for me, its not any hard actually).
Now back to explicitly ignore by other ones. Why they did it, you for example? Why it took a whole month to produce some answer, and also really wrong one, of a kind of "so wrong, better no answer at all than that" (actually there is one important exception: such answers could be really useful if one who produce them is learning in result of them, but from what i saw its likely not a case here)? Why you all bullying that poor guy? Why you expect me to do some other way?
2) Now its way simpler, im produce a "service" as you call it only for ones who actually need it. One who actually need it is have to have a deep interest in game, and be reasonable guy. Im already sorta old, and i have no time to waste on answering questions already answered in the game's manual 20+ years ago; and being reasonable is a general requirement, at least to understand the answer. Its not what im expecting all the people to be like that, i honestly cant get from where you got it, im not expect them to be like that, i simply dont really care for ones who arent like that and show no hints of possibility to change to better. Its indeed sorta "no shirt, no shoes, no service" rules as you call it: you not have a curiosity about game, you are fine to miss opportunity, you act like moron - ok, you actually dont need it \ not able to then, and offer is for ones who want and able, ill wait, as interaction with one who dont need it \ not able is the same as no interaction (ofc i still could use an opportunity to have some laugh, and\or to share some fun info about, but its not something to really rely on).
(Unrelated example): if i got you right its quite in line here, and as i got you not really fond bout those pals, so i've slightly miss why you suppose from me to act the same stupid way as Latvian govt does and tolerate such crap? Or i missed the point indeed.
2a) See 2).
2b) Its more about expression of stupidity here, and see 2).
2c) REally, see 2). Its their own problems, not mine, you really seem to have some misconception about providing a service for customers. Its about quality, not quantity here, "you must be at least this good to ride", if you cant even read, and dont plan to change it - no help is possible (obviously it would be something completely different in a real "providing a service" you brought: you pay, i provide an answer and dont care if you able to read it or not, im not wasted a time, but changed it for some fee instead).
3) See various 2's). And yes, im mostly interested in somebody who actually close to my level of game (if im right the proper word could be "sifting" here), simply because that mean the least work from my side for maximum result. And if somebody is still wonder about some really basic facts from really old game now - with that pace he will arrive at "close to my level" by the time ill be quite dead by some time already. And if that person dont show a signs of rising a pace even if i tried to provide a some bonus, well... (quiz: there quite already some exclusive info i did share in this very topic, see how many reaction it got in comparison to one line about ignoring OP, can you guess the reason behind?).
Enneagon wrote on Fri, 27 July 2018 01:29
I disagree. It is sad, but rather expected, they will ask away without any prior research, but the direct answer to their questions may very well be the only thing they will ever read about the subject.
See 2) & 3). If it "may very well be the only thing they will ever read about the subject" - then its really good reason not to bother about them, as it will mean wasting a time for them too. They could go to do something more reasonable instead than to ask a solitary question bout some ancient game they wouldnt even immerse into after. Say went straight to play some other game, cook some food for family etc. If the question is actually a well-known topic i could use it tho (as i already did here).
Enneagon wrote on Fri, 27 July 2018 01:29
Accidentally, I actually have my very own star map editor written for MoO2 ... ... but beautifully show how readily you jump to assumptions.
Actually i was about this: https://www.gog.com/forum/master_of_orion_series/master_of_orion_2_unofficial_150_patch/post385 . Dont get me wrong, i really mean no bad here, but this certain post of your wasnt well-written, in comparison to one i quoting here, for example.
1. - you jumped into some topic with impressive disclaimer what you have no knowledge about topic theme at all, but you will still share some precious info about it.
2. - you added another disclaimer what info you will share now (about a theme you claim you have no knowledge about) could actually be wrong, as it was long ago, you dont recall it well etc (and even somewhy didnt bothered to re-check, for example).
3. - you share some generally wrong info (as most people here likely unfamiliar with matters they would read about in case of accidental clicking on a link - the rough equivalent of info could be "so there is a things, they called airplanes, i know about them, as i studied them in uni and worked on their production on my own, they could do thousands miles in a hours, and they fly on a stuff they dug from soil, it called "wood", but they cannot land unless a human sacrifice is done at proposed landing spot" - yes, they called airplanes, yes, they roughly fly on a stuff they dug from soil, no, that stuff is not called "wood", and no, they dont require a human sacrifice to land. also if you indeed sharing that info after studied them and working with them, i hope that assembly line is closed long ago), supposedly disclaimers provided means you're fine with it, but actually it did quite bad for my estimation of you - "really, just jumped some thread, confess he've no idea about it, and provide some wrong info, and, whut, suppose himself of being helpful or what?". But lets see which way of acting of those 2 is more common for you.
{I know what im about here, as i wrote main part of very that essentially thing in 1.50, and to do it well i had to know how it was working in prior versions well too}
UPD: Actually after some additional thought ive come with 2 other possible partial explanations of stuff above:
I) Simtex's own patching is badly documented, in theory it was possible it worked the described by you way in some very early game version, then they fixed it to a "common way" without any mention, despite i have no ground to verify it now. In this case 3. become a "right, but obsolete data" instead of "wrong". It still would been of no help on a certain case (as even it was present in some early version, that version is not any sort of default now, only later versions are in real usage, say, sold by resellers), but definitely would've been a nice curiosity. Main 1. still would remain tho.
II) You did it a right way years ago, and editor actually do what it should, but due to 2. you were mixing some stuff describing it now. Then all 1. 2. 3. are still valid for a given case; but im wrong in my expectation, and its possible what you can help with mentioned save editor, as you actually can do it after recall some stuff.
Enneagon wrote on Fri, 27 July 2018 01:29
Sadly I'm totally used ... .... unless I choose to become.
That was a tricky part, im glad we're passed it better than i expected. Ill ensure a 3rd time what it was a pure example of possible action of non-collaboration taken against you, and nothing actual. But as its turn to be something too familiar to you - im apologize, also its resulted into "jumping over a topic" here, as it was planned as "direct very obvious non-friendliness example", it had nothing about actual offense's meaning, it was purely an example, and something other stuff of that sorta could been used instead (indeed, i just seen an avatar and suggested you should got a couple of similar lines over a lifespan, so the example should work well, and it did, but too well). It have nothing even near my actual personal perception about you, so i cant use it a way i got your answer (supposedly "you have a really yuge tolerance to a various shit, as you watching a Russian state television on nearly daily basis, so you will still collaborate even with somebody, who will call you this way" (i hope i got it wrong)), but if i got it right, maybe you will help me with weirdoes? As you seem to be fine and tolerant, you will pass me some edited memos etc, so they will not be turned out unjustly. Non-paid work, based purely on your supposed non-weird concept about helping people, deal?
Enneagon wrote on Fri, 27 July 2018 01:29
That's exactly why you are willing to tell that, right? And of course, that's what we all appreciate.
Ofc not, somebody who is not actually able to do it are often willing to tell too. Its very easy to notice, even on this forums, but actually its way more widespread. Able to tell =! willing to tell, thats some fallacy from you, i hope accidental one. Also its another fallacy to speak for others, even if it honestly. Appreciation for me will be become better than me, so i could learn from you, not "i like whatcha ya doing stuff here, bro, yo" (in case you somewhy bother about me bothering about appreciation).
Enneagon wrote on Fri, 27 July 2018 01:29
Really? Why? Most ... ... keep his interest, there will be none.
See 2) etc. Because im too old to waste a time on the type described. But happily, from your own lines its clearly obvious what no harm is inflicted if they are ignored - their attention span is low, actual interest even less, and they will forget it next day being busy asking on some other forum about some other stuff to forget it next day and so on. And keeping their interest is a headache of Nordic Games, or whoever is running it now, not mine, as they paid for it. All i doing is trying to be able to help somebody with an already present deep interest in game, as i can still (mostly because im recalling my own searching a web for info in vain for some time), and ofc im fine to help even not so dedicated people, but they obviously should show some minimum sanity, say ability to read, and taking some right actions according to new info. And ones who cant are not of my concern.
Actually its SAD you're not into this game, man, you seem to pass requirements with ease, and this is pure offtop.
[Updated on: Fri, 27 July 2018 13:28] Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354167 is a reply to message #354161]
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Fri, 27 July 2018 16:26
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| townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
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Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 19:35Setting aside an actual life-threatening aspect not present in our case ... at least the life of his mercs appears to depend on it ;)
Quote:that example should involve a ... So perhaps: life guard refuses to help someone of his community who failed to stay within the borders of the guarded beach?
Quote:... Maybe you just should play Normal difficulty instead? as mentioned on another board, i stopped playing JA long time ago, unless for tasks like quick search_for_and_verify offsets.
btw 2 player was of course JA DG, which I heretically consider very similar to JA,
at least in terms of what a DG 2 player session would look like in the very 1st game.
Quote:.... {the only thing i've got from it is about some JA1 LP's - well, there is no worthy ones im aware of by now} .... Depends on how worthy is defined, perfect gameplay does imo not always lead to the most entertaining LP,
even more valid if player has seen it many times in own playthroughs, no matter if he may only believe that.
However also less "perfect" players will once in a while come up with something
that an open minded "better" player may recognize as an adaption worthy improvement of his own approach to the game.
Last not least if the player knows he is not perfect and has enough distance to what goes on, he can laugh about his own actions etc,
that may result in an, at least for me, highly amusing and entertaining LP, One F Jef's epic failure JA2 1.13 ironman instantly comes to mind.
Quote:... Otherwise you will have to define what "late game" is, for example. In very short approach to answer, yes, falling enemies down will help to drain their AP's. Some grenades affected with armor, some are not, so heavy armor can prevent falling down in case of explosive grenades. Is it what you're was about? Not really, i was seriously hoping for a reply which may help OP or others with same/similar question,
i.e. either a "yes", preferably incl short explanation why,
or define grenades as not effective for stealing interrupt, again perhaps incl why,
and also if a to us unknown and more effective tactic exists, just reveal it, perhaps in spoiler tags.
"Late game enemies" of OP did most likely not refer to enemies we meet while playing e.g. from 22:00 to 6:00 :D
Perhaps its best if those with the highest expertise on topic do decide what exactly are late game enemies. ;)
Personally i referred to the term with guys in mind where even the minimum perceptive player
must recognize that these are better than the average Santino goon.
Or subjective point of view: what i mostly met on the last 4-9 squares in upper left corner during the JA years. :D
Also i would wish for a more detailed answer without having to specify all possible variations,
e.g. stuff which perhaps prevents interupt for specific enemy on specific merc,
as in JA2 iirc an enemy which was shot by a merc that he could not see (regardless whether hit or not),
would not get an interrupt on that merc in the same turn if that merc then moved into his/her vison field. Perhaps there is similar in JA?
And while already at that topic, it may also be interesiting how interrupt sharing works
(triggerd by what sounds, enemy friend in vision field sees us, all enemies have radio, etc)
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: JAGGED ALLIANCE 1: late game[message #354168 is a reply to message #354167]
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Fri, 27 July 2018 18:25
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| Jahh |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2017 |
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townltu wrote on Fri, 27 July 2018 16:26Jahh wrote on Wed, 25 July 2018 19:35Setting aside an actual life-threatening aspect not present in our case ...
So perhaps: life guard refuses to help someone of his community who failed to stay within the borders of the guarded beach?
Again, there is nothing of actual importance for that person. Its closer to providing sorta a large umbrella and some drinks, if one intentionally go "non-guarded" area, obviously he's not entitled to it, its really simple if you drop that tearjerking "help!" stuff off.
Quote:as mentioned on another board, i stopped playing JA long time ago, unless for tasks like quick search_for_and_verify offsets.
btw 2 player was of course JA DG, which I heretically consider very similar to JA, at least in terms of what a DG 2 player session would look like in the very 1st game.
I didnt meant you should do it now, just inform in case you will plan to sometime, as it seems to be important info in case you actually bother about it, and could save you some "anti-cheat cheat manipulations with a save file" time.
I know you meant that btw, but it could be really misleading to somebody not so familiar to it as you, for example spawn a new thread "how to enable 2 player mode in JA1, i did read bout it somewhere".
Quote:... In very short approach to answer, yes, falling enemies down will help to drain their AP's. Some grenades affected with armor, some are not, so heavy armor can prevent falling down in case of explosive grenades. Is it what you're was about?
Quote:Not really, i was seriously hoping for a reply which may help OP or others with same/similar question,i.e. either a "yes", preferably incl short explanation why,
or define grenades as not effective for stealing interrupt, again perhaps incl why,
and also if a to us unknown and more effective tactic exists, just reveal it, perhaps in spoiler tags.
That part of quote above is not suit your goals then? Its essentially "yes", incl short explanation why, incl why, isnt it? There was nothing about "more effective tactic exists" in question also.
Quote:Personally i referred to the term with guys in mind where even the minimum perceptive playermust recognize that these are better than the average Santino goon.
Or subjective point of view: what i mostly met on the last 4-9 squares in upper left corner during the JA years. 
Again, its example of a thing not easy to define. Enemies generally progress with approaching to upper left corner of map, but they also progress over a days passed. Its very possibly to meet a better equipped enemy on some sector 45 on day 30 than on some sector 2 on day 2. Main importance there is that no default enemies in game have any armor (unless there is some very certain exception set for a laugh somewhere by authors that i missed), but will get it over a course of days passed, so "late game" could differ much here. I dont know what is "late game" in original post (tho its obviously stated there what there is no actual too good opponents's armor problem involved).
Quote:
Also i would wish for a more detailed answer without having to specify all possible variations,e.g. stuff which perhaps prevents interupt for specific enemy on specific merc,
as in JA2 iirc an enemy which was shot by a merc that he could not see (regardless whether hit or not),would not get an interrupt on that merc in the same turn if that merc then moved into his/her vison field. Perhaps there is similar in JA?
And while already at that topic, it may also be interesiting how interrupt sharing works
(triggerd by what sounds, enemy friend in vision field sees us, all enemies have radio, etc)
Well, if you have a question about game - you know where to ask it. As you asked it here despite a walls of text about it, and i have to actually type this very line explaining it again - im sorry, but i also would have to ask for a reasonable explanation of your past actions then prior my answer, as it already looks like as if it looped back, and i dont want to waste a time if you suddenly just trying to have some fun from it, for example (especially as you stopped playing JA long time ago, so less likely to expect you actually care about).
[Updated on: Fri, 27 July 2018 18:38] Report message to a moderator
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