Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Gameplay Talk » Is heavy weapon skill worth ?
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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354416 is a reply to message #354415]
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Fri, 17 August 2018 17:21
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townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017 Location: here |
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Accuracy of mortars used by non hvy weapons skilled merc may be too high
(perhaps decrease base cth for mortars and compensate for hvy weapons skill?)
but when it comes to dmg the skill requires less shells:
Stogie has a estimated chance of 20% to destroy a tank with a single mortar shell,
the 2nd hit usually does it, quite rarely he needs a 3rd shell.
Unskilled mercs mostly need 3 shells, but up to 5 is not that rare.
I.e. Stogie destroys ~ 10 tanks with 19 shells fired from the commando mortar, non HW merc only ~6 under same conditions.
If it comes to direct shot AT weapons, Stogies chance to destroy a tank with a LAW (80 dmg) on succesful hit
is rather equal to the chance of a non HW skilled merc to destroy a tank with a RPG 27 Tavolga (120 dmg),
and dont forget the increased cth with these weapons as they are not as accurate as mortars.
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Master Sergeant
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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354422 is a reply to message #354418]
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Fri, 17 August 2018 21:18
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townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017 Location: here |
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Perhaps try to lower mortar accuracy and incfrease cth bonus for HW skill?
Or wait until somebody with competence posts a solution.
However i strongly disagree to "it should be mandatory"
It would prefer "recommendable" and pehaps add "at increasing rate tied to difficulty setting"
but as soon as stuff is required, a game loses versatility and freedom of choice,
eventually trashing replay value.
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Master Sergeant
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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354437 is a reply to message #354435]
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Sat, 18 August 2018 14:34
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townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017 Location: here |
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let me just point out that my last message in this thread was sent with at least 15 minutes delay an preview/check,
so "wait until somebody with competence posts" does not take messages from Fri 21:04 to 21:14 into account,
would not dare to question seven's competence
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Master Sergeant
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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354458 is a reply to message #354456]
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Mon, 20 August 2018 15:44
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RedFaction |
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Messages:47
Registered:July 2018 |
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SmokinGun wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 11:08What exactly do you think 50ish marksmanship reflects? 50% of the time they will miss, or hit? There are far more factors that go into skillsets, accuracy, and effectiveness of mercs.
Let me introduce you FLO.
FLO is a french pacifist accountant.
She's skilled in teaching but she gets nervous on the battlefield.
She has terrible marksmanship (38) and bad dexterity (65).
Due to its bad stats, she's cheap ! 160$ a day ! A good deal if you want a mule or someone to train your militia.
But, could we expect FLO to hit something with a MORTAR ?
Let's try !
Let's position FLO at the TOP LEFT CORNER of G9 in Cambria.
- FLO, here is a commando mortar and a 60mm mortar shell.
- But, I never handled this !
- I know, could you please shoot at the people down here *point the OPPOSITE CORNER OF THE MAP*
- Where ? I don't see them, there are like trees, houses, fog, and whatever exist in the way.
- Let's TRY ANYWAY, just shoot right here :
- There are at 100 range ! I have 0 CtH !
- How unfortunate. Let's do this.
- What the ??!!! DID I JUST KILL SOMEONE ?
- Yeah sounds like you did.
- But I have 38 marskmanship ?! I AM A HARMLESS TEACHER !
- What makes you think 38 marksmanship reflects ? *tap on her shoulder* There are far more factors that go into your skillset FLO.
*she starts crying*
- Okay, HURL, come here.
- Yes ?
- Please wear this EOD armor and kamikaze yourself into that bunch of grunts.
- What ?
- There are far more factors that go into your skillsets HURL, don't make such a fuss.
[Updated on: Mon, 20 August 2018 18:06] Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354460 is a reply to message #354458]
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Mon, 20 August 2018 17:38
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townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017 Location: here |
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Checking commando mortar with 4452 xmleditor, (as rather sure that wouldnt screw the install)
I had to realize that the mortars weapon classs apparently does not allow to assign a default modifier,
perhaps its easier to change that instead of whatever other approach appears doable?
RedFaction wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 15:44Let me introduce you FLO.
...
I think the example lags, because how is mortar accuracy linked to mrk or str of a character?
Mrk is (imo;) about taking flat trajectory aka "direct" shots by aiming down barrels/sights,
sometimes leading a target may be involved.
Mrk, str or dex have little to no impact on firing a classic mortar once its deployed,
cth is mainly a matter of the ballistic math and spatial imagination.
(so accountant may be helpful, but the noise could trigger "nervous" aspect of persons, ptsd etc)
Hirtenberger/M4 type may be a bit more demanding, but not to a degree that someone like Flo shouldnt be able to handle them.
btw dex 65 is far better than the 42 of by some players overrated Frank Hennessy,
and to compare hvy weapon specialists, Buzz and Grizzly have a dex of 48 and 51.
Explosives skill as i understand it how to handle them, calculate timing & blast area, the effects on stuff in it,
also determine condition of explosives incl shells etc,
other than that i cant see where it should really help more to hit with a mortar.
btw, could place pics in tags so they do not automatically appear, less intrudsive and saves bandwidth.
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Master Sergeant
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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354462 is a reply to message #354460]
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Mon, 20 August 2018 18:15
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RedFaction |
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Messages:47
Registered:July 2018 |
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townltu wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 17:38I think the example lags, because how is mortar accuracy linked to mrk or str of a character?
Mrk is (imo;) about taking flat trajectory aka "direct" shots by aiming down barrels/sights,
sometimes leading a target may be involved.
Mrk, str or dex have little to no impact on firing a classic mortar once its deployed,
cth is mainly a matter of the ballistic math and spatial imagination.
(so accountant may be helpful, but the noise could trigger "nervous" aspect of persons, ptsd etc)
Hirtenberger/M4 type may be a bit more demanding, but not to a degree that someone like Flo shouldnt be able to handle them.
btw dex 65 is far better than the 42 of by some players overrated Frank Hennessy,
and to compare hvy weapon specialists, Buzz and Grizzly have a dex of 48 and 51.
Explosives skill as i understand it how to handle them, calculate timing & blast area, the effects on stuff in it,
also determine condition of explosives incl shells etc,
other than that i cant see where it should really help more to hit with a mortar.
I don't know what should be relevant to use a mortar successfully. All of us may have a personnal opinion about that
My point is that from a gameplay point of you, if such a cheap and unskilled merc like FLO can be that accurate with a mortar, then hiring an expensive bombardier is pointless.
Anyway that was just my two cents about heavy weapon
townltu wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 17:38btw, could place pics in tags so they do not automatically appear, less intrudsive and saves bandwidth.
Fixed ! Sorry about that
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Corporal
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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354498 is a reply to message #354496]
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Thu, 23 August 2018 01:54
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townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017 Location: here |
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RedFaction wrote on Thu, 23 August 2018 00:48So far enemies never used their mortars against me in my whole playthrough.
May want to try seven's excellent 7609_AI exe, soldiers dont spare grenades or shells,
e.g. play with ed's Arulco Vacations mod, there i got plenty of enemy mortar fire,
might have used them whenver they could, like shells on single targets triggered by noises when mercs left vision field of enemies,
luckily mostly smoke, otherwise it could have been devastating,
also the spies helped a lot to pick mortar soldiers before they could pose a threat.
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Master Sergeant
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