Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Gameplay Talk » Is heavy weapon skill worth ?
Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354406] Fri, 17 August 2018 02:48 Go to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
I gave mortars and grenade launchers to my support mercs, a paramedic and a radio operator.

They have like 50 marksmanship so I thought it could be cool if they give us some bombing support instead of fire power.

Then I realised they are damn good at it ! Mortar shells explode really near the target if not right on it, and my radio operator does a good job throwing jumping grenades as well.

I took a look at ini options and I found MORTAR_CTH_DIVISOR.
The concept is cool but it says that it is only used if Old Trait System is played, which is not if my memory serves me well (default is new system right ?).

So, considering how successful a random merc can blow up the battlefield, what's the point of the heavy weapon skill ? happy

Is there any option to tweak to make that skill more necessary ?
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354412 is a reply to message #354406] Fri, 17 August 2018 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ratpaz

 
Messages:137
Registered:April 2015
Location: Italy
Well, heavy damage skill mean more accuracy and damage with heavy weapons
so, yes it is useful especially in late game when tanks make their apparences.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354413 is a reply to message #354412] Fri, 17 August 2018 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
ratpaz wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 14:09
Well, heavy damage skill mean more accuracy


But what's the point if a merc without this skill and with 50 marksmanship is already accurate ? :/
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354415 is a reply to message #354413] Fri, 17 August 2018 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
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Registered:January 2015
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When you get to the tanks you will wish you had heavy weapons skill.




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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354416 is a reply to message #354415] Fri, 17 August 2018 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:314
Registered:December 2017
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Accuracy of mortars used by non hvy weapons skilled merc may be too high
(perhaps decrease base cth for mortars and compensate for hvy weapons skill?)
but when it comes to dmg the skill requires less shells:
Stogie has a estimated chance of 20% to destroy a tank with a single mortar shell,
the 2nd hit usually does it, quite rarely he needs a 3rd shell.
Unskilled mercs mostly need 3 shells, but up to 5 is not that rare.
I.e. Stogie destroys ~ 10 tanks with 19 shells fired from the commando mortar, non HW merc only ~6 under same conditions.

If it comes to direct shot AT weapons, Stogies chance to destroy a tank with a LAW (80 dmg) on succesful hit
is rather equal to the chance of a non HW skilled merc to destroy a tank with a RPG 27 Tavolga (120 dmg),
and dont forget the increased cth with these weapons as they are not as accurate as mortars.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354418 is a reply to message #354416] Fri, 17 August 2018 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
townltu wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 17:21
Accuracy of mortars used by non hvy weapons skilled merc may be too high
(perhaps decrease base cth for mortars and compensate for hvy weapons skill?)


Yes definitely. Do you know how to decrease the base cth ?

Presently I don't see the point to hire an expensive merc with this skill, while it should be mandatory.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354419 is a reply to message #354418] Fri, 17 August 2018 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
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Registered:December 2012
Location: Soviet Russia
RedFaction wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 23:00
Yes definitely. Do you know how to decrease the base cth ?

MORTAR_CTH_MODIFIER in Skills_Settings.INI, compensated by MORTAR_CTH_PENALTY_REDUCTION for heavy weapons skill.
Also it's important that with high MORTAR_CTH_MODIFIER values, enemy AI will not use mortars as he will think they have too low CTH, especially if you disable skills for enemy.



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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354420 is a reply to message #354419] Fri, 17 August 2018 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
sevenfm wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 21:04
MORTAR_CTH_MODIFIER in Skills_Settings.INI, compensated by MORTAR_CTH_PENALTY_REDUCTION for heavy weapons skill.


Didn't see that section !

It's already -60 by default.
How could I be that accurate with a -60 penalty ?

Let me ask the question in a different way : what is an INaccurate shot ?

Because if an inaccurate shot is a shot like 5 tiles away from the target, that still blows him up ^^"

Inaccurate shots should land far away, or even better : just in the shooter's face !
If I want to play the mad bomber with a 50 marksmanship paramedic, it must come with some risks don't you think ? happy

[Updated on: Fri, 17 August 2018 21:12]

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354421 is a reply to message #354420] Fri, 17 August 2018 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
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RedFaction wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 23:12
Let me ask the question in a different way : what is an INaccurate shot ?

You need to look at the code probably to understand it better.



7609+fix | 7609+AI (r922) | 7609 unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Vengeance:Reloaded | Youtube

"It's already "dog-eat-dog", friend. Not sure what worse a bunch of zombies could do."


Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354422 is a reply to message #354418] Fri, 17 August 2018 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:314
Registered:December 2017
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Perhaps try to lower mortar accuracy and incfrease cth bonus for HW skill?
Or wait until somebody with competence posts a solution.


However i strongly disagree to "it should be mandatory"
It would prefer "recommendable" and pehaps add "at increasing rate tied to difficulty setting"
but as soon as stuff is required, a game loses versatility and freedom of choice,
eventually trashing replay value.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354423 is a reply to message #354421] Fri, 17 August 2018 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
sevenfm wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 21:14

You need to look at the code probably to understand it better.


Better : I did a test happy

I changed MORTAR_CTH_MODIFIER from -60 to -200.

In game, 0 chance-to-hit, still lands a few tiles away from the target two times in a row, near enough to blow anything near the target (and hit him at the same time).

So I guess INacurracy is not punishing enough, even with 0 CtH.

Hmm...
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354428 is a reply to message #354406] Sat, 18 August 2018 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crackwise

 
Messages:52
Registered:April 2013
This is exactly an issue which I also would love to see solved somehow. Mortars are extremely accurate! I have also lowered the MORTAR_CTH_MODIFIER as you did, but it does not seem to have an effect.

The only thing which seems to decrease the accuracy a bit is to lower the maximum range of the mortars in the weapons.xml manually. In contrast, I found the RPGs and LAW extremely inaccurate, so increasing their range in the xml file makes them much more accurate.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354430 is a reply to message #354428] Sat, 18 August 2018 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2472
Registered:May 2009
Well, inaccurate means it doesn't hit the spot you selected which is just what you experienced. The fact that pieces of shrapnel can still hit a target that is several tiles away doesn't change the fact that the mortar shell didn't land where you intended it to. Considering that mortar shells are expensive and hard to come by I wouldn't want some wannabe merc with no experience to waste them. I would want some heavy weapons guy hit exactly the point I intended to, especially when it comes to killing tanks and armed jeeps. 0% CtH just means that the shooter has no chance of hitting that exact spot. It doesn't mean that he looks down the barrel of the mortar while firing...



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354435 is a reply to message #354430] Sat, 18 August 2018 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crackwise

 
Messages:52
Registered:April 2013
Well, if it is only 2-3 tiles away between the intended target and where the shell landed, it well is too damn accurate happy

There is already a setting for the Artillery Strike in the skills_settings.ini called RADIO_OPERATOR_MORTAR_RADIUS, where you can adjust the range of tiles in which the artillery strike (mortar) shells can land. This works great! By increasing this radius, I can have a much more inaccurate artillery strike covering a larger area, working actually like conventional mortar support in real-life.

Would it not be possible to have this option also for the single mortar used by a merc?
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354437 is a reply to message #354435] Sat, 18 August 2018 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
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let me just point out that my last message in this thread was sent with at least 15 minutes delay an preview/check,
so "wait until somebody with competence posts" does not take messages from Fri 21:04 to 21:14 into account,
would not dare to question seven's competence
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354441 is a reply to message #354435] Sat, 18 August 2018 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2472
Registered:May 2009
crackwise wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 12:46
Well, if it is only 2-3 tiles away between the intended target and where the shell landed, it well is too damn accurate happy

Currently there are hardcoded limits for min and max miss radius. I was surprised to find that there is a max radius of 4 tiles. Maybe that was done because hand grenades use the same calculations but using hand grenades is a lot different than using a mortar and requires different knowledge and skill. Also there were no grenade fragments in the original game, only an explosion radius. If the max radius had been larger then grenades would have been mostly useless.

So I guess we would need different modifiers for hand grenades and mortar or a certain factor for the mortar. Let me think about that some more. Maybe I add some modifiers to Item_Settings.ini, one set for grenades and one for mortar.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354452 is a reply to message #354441] Sun, 19 August 2018 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2472
Registered:May 2009
After reading the code a bit more it seems that the current system is rather complicated and handles grenades the same way as mortar so simply introducing externalized values for max mortar/grenade radius will likely cause strange effects.
There is a certain element of luck involved in hitting the intended spot but this has too much effect which can lead to a series of direct hits and one mortar 10 tiles away from the target. One may say "bad luck" but I think that this is some unwanted behavior and an increased max radius will only amplify this effect. So don't expect a quick solution.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354453 is a reply to message #354435] Sun, 19 August 2018 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
crackwise wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 13:46
Well, if it is only 2-3 tiles away between the intended target and where the shell landed, it well is too damn accurate happy

Exactly happy

silversurfer wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 18:18
Let me think about that some more.

If I may give some suggestions, I would suggest to change how accuracy is handled for mortars.

Presently as you pointed out, 0 CtH means 0 CtH this exact spot, but we are talking about a mortar so 4 tiles away max is still a very good deal happy

I would introduce 4 levels of accuracy :
    1) Accurate shot : the shell lands between 1 and 4 tiles of the target
    2) Innacurate shot : the shell lands at least x tiles AWAY from the target
    3) Failed shot : the shell lands a few tiles NEAR the shooter, injuring himself and its team
    4) Critical failed shot : the shell explodes in the shooter's face
The calculation would take the following stats in account (suggestions) :
    - Attributes :
      - Strength (to handle the heavy stuff)
      - Marskmanship / Dexterity (to aim right)
      - Wisdom / Experience level (to avoid stupid mistakes)
      - Explosives (to handle explosives stuff)
    - Perk :
      - Demolition (concerns only grenades currently if my memory serves me well)
      - Heavy Weapon / Bombardier (should provide most of the chances to get an accurate shot)
    - Other :
      - Random luck
      - Bleeding / bandages
      - Shock
      - Breath
      - Alcohol / drugs
What do you guys think ? happy
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354454 is a reply to message #354453] Sun, 19 August 2018 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:282
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
In the ideal world, the skills would all be seperate Grenade launchers, grenades, mortars, direct AT weapons like a pen and paper RPG would do it.

The real world says, thats way too much work both building the characters, as well as coding especially with the Engine as it is (at least my understanding is there are comprimises because of engine age that just need to be made).

With sharing of code between items like grenade explosions and mortar explosionsa lot of the issue described ends up in my opinion being scaling issues. The whole 1 tile is 10 meter issue means 'effective' grenades end up having larger damage radii than they should to remain usable/playable items, and likely the mortar rounds are a bit of the same.

Mortar data and one grenade for references:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M224_mortar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-4_Commando_Mortar https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-90/Appb.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354456 is a reply to message #354406] Mon, 20 August 2018 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun

 
Messages:58
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun
RedFaction wrote on Thu, 16 August 2018 23:48
They have like 50 marksmanship so I thought it could be cool if they give us some bombing support instead of fire power.

Then I realised they are damn good at it ! Mortar shells explode really near the target if not right on it, and my radio operator does a good job throwing jumping grenades as well.

So, considering how successful a random merc can blow up the battlefield, what's the point of the heavy weapon skill ? happy

Presently I don't see the point to hire an expensive merc with this skill, while it should be mandatory.



Chill out explosive pants.

On what difficulty level are you playing?
How far into the campaign are you and just how do you have so many mortars to "blow up the battlefield"?
Does your enemy have decent armor?
Have you encountered tanks?
Why exactly do you think "it should be mandatory" that mercs with heavy weapons skill be expensive?

What exactly do you think 50ish marksmanship reflects? 50% of the time they will miss, or hit? There are far more factors that go into skillsets, accuracy, and effectiveness of mercs.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354458 is a reply to message #354456] Mon, 20 August 2018 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
SmokinGun wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 11:08
What exactly do you think 50ish marksmanship reflects? 50% of the time they will miss, or hit? There are far more factors that go into skillsets, accuracy, and effectiveness of mercs.

Let me introduce you FLO.



FLO is a french pacifist accountant.
She's skilled in teaching but she gets nervous on the battlefield.
She has terrible marksmanship (38) and bad dexterity (65).

Due to its bad stats, she's cheap ! 160$ a day ! A good deal if you want a mule or someone to train your militia.

But, could we expect FLO to hit something with a MORTAR ?
Let's try !



Let's position FLO at the TOP LEFT CORNER of G9 in Cambria.

- FLO, here is a commando mortar and a 60mm mortar shell.
- But, I never handled this !
- I know, could you please shoot at the people down here *point the OPPOSITE CORNER OF THE MAP*
- Where ? I don't see them, there are like trees, houses, fog, and whatever exist in the way.
- Let's TRY ANYWAY, just shoot right here :



- There are at 100 range ! I have 0 CtH !
- How unfortunate. Let's do this.



- What the ??!!! DID I JUST KILL SOMEONE ?
- Yeah sounds like you did.
- But I have 38 marskmanship ?! I AM A HARMLESS TEACHER !
- What makes you think 38 marksmanship reflects ? *tap on her shoulder* There are far more factors that go into your skillset FLO.

*she starts crying*

- Okay, HURL, come here.
- Yes ?
- Please wear this EOD armor and kamikaze yourself into that bunch of grunts.
- What ?
- There are far more factors that go into your skillsets HURL, don't make such a fuss.

[Updated on: Mon, 20 August 2018 18:06]

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354460 is a reply to message #354458] Mon, 20 August 2018 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:314
Registered:December 2017
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Checking commando mortar with 4452 xmleditor, (as rather sure that wouldnt screw the install)
I had to realize that the mortars weapon classs apparently does not allow to assign a default modifier,
perhaps its easier to change that instead of whatever other approach appears doable?




RedFaction wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 15:44
Let me introduce you FLO.
...

I think the example lags, because how is mortar accuracy linked to mrk or str of a character?

Mrk is (imo;) about taking flat trajectory aka "direct" shots by aiming down barrels/sights,
sometimes leading a target may be involved.

Mrk, str or dex have little to no impact on firing a classic mortar once its deployed,
cth is mainly a matter of the ballistic math and spatial imagination.
(so accountant may be helpful, but the noise could trigger "nervous" aspect of persons, ptsd etc)
Hirtenberger/M4 type may be a bit more demanding, but not to a degree that someone like Flo shouldnt be able to handle them.
btw dex 65 is far better than the 42 of by some players overrated Frank Hennessy,
and to compare hvy weapon specialists, Buzz and Grizzly have a dex of 48 and 51.

Explosives skill as i understand it how to handle them, calculate timing & blast area, the effects on stuff in it,
also determine condition of explosives incl shells etc,
other than that i cant see where it should really help more to hit with a mortar.


btw, could place pics in tags so they do not automatically appear, less intrudsive and saves bandwidth.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354462 is a reply to message #354460] Mon, 20 August 2018 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
townltu wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 17:38
I think the example lags, because how is mortar accuracy linked to mrk or str of a character?

Mrk is (imo;) about taking flat trajectory aka "direct" shots by aiming down barrels/sights,
sometimes leading a target may be involved.

Mrk, str or dex have little to no impact on firing a classic mortar once its deployed,
cth is mainly a matter of the ballistic math and spatial imagination.
(so accountant may be helpful, but the noise could trigger "nervous" aspect of persons, ptsd etc)
Hirtenberger/M4 type may be a bit more demanding, but not to a degree that someone like Flo shouldnt be able to handle them.
btw dex 65 is far better than the 42 of by some players overrated Frank Hennessy,
and to compare hvy weapon specialists, Buzz and Grizzly have a dex of 48 and 51.

Explosives skill as i understand it how to handle them, calculate timing & blast area, the effects on stuff in it,
also determine condition of explosives incl shells etc,
other than that i cant see where it should really help more to hit with a mortar.

I don't know what should be relevant to use a mortar successfully. All of us may have a personnal opinion about that happy

My point is that from a gameplay point of you, if such a cheap and unskilled merc like FLO can be that accurate with a mortar, then hiring an expensive bombardier is pointless.

Anyway that was just my two cents about heavy weapon happy

townltu wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 17:38
btw, could place pics in tags so they do not automatically appear, less intrudsive and saves bandwidth.

Fixed ! Sorry about that happy
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354467 is a reply to message #354462] Tue, 21 August 2018 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2472
Registered:May 2009
For anyone interested - CtH calculation for mortar is actually done by these attributes:

(Dex + Mrk + Wis + Exp * 10) / 4

I don't plan to change that. Other attributes just don't make much sense as replacement. What I plan to change is the way "luck" is handled. Currently because of the high effect of luck the real CtH value acts more like a trigger for a perfect or terrible shot than actual accuracy. When I experimented I was able to land perfect mortar shots with a merc like Doc Koolhan, who has 58 Dex, 59 Mrk, 88 Wis and Exp 1 in my test game. He only has the doctor trait. The initial CtH value was low but modifiers brought it up to a level that was sufficient to reliably hit the spot. The other shots went far away from the target. There weren't really any "in between" shots.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354468 is a reply to message #354467] Tue, 21 August 2018 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
silversurfer wrote on Tue, 21 August 2018 20:30
The other shots went far away from the target.

I thought there was a 4 tiles max radius ?

silversurfer wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 18:18
I was surprised to find that there is a max radius of 4 tiles.

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354472 is a reply to message #354468] Wed, 22 August 2018 01:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2472
Registered:May 2009
RedFaction wrote on Tue, 21 August 2018 20:06

I thought there was a 4 tiles max radius ?

For testing I set the max radius for mortar to 10 tiles.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354476 is a reply to message #354472] Wed, 22 August 2018 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
silversurfer wrote on Wed, 22 August 2018 01:42
For testing I set the max radius for mortar to 10 tiles.

Ok. That's a good news we can change that happy
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354490 is a reply to message #354476] Wed, 22 August 2018 21:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2472
Registered:May 2009
Ok, in revision 8598 GameDir 2438 I added my changes to the calculation of thrown explosives and mortar. You can set a max radius for both types of explosives in Item_Settings.ini:
Toggle Spoiler

The defaults are shown above. These are the max values for a soldier with 0 CtH. An untrained and inexperienced soldier will hit anything but the target, at least with mortar. Now the traits DO make a big difference.
I slightly increased the grenade max radius by one point. It shouldn't really be noticeable.

Be aware that the minimum miss radius is not 0! It is calculated based on CtH just like the max miss radius is calculated for the merc. Both values are influenced a little by luck (good or bad).
Then a random tile within min and max miss radius is chosen.

Feel free to test and give feedback.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354496 is a reply to message #354490] Thu, 23 August 2018 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
silversurfer wrote on Wed, 22 August 2018 21:07
An untrained and inexperienced soldier will hit anything but the target, at least with mortar. Now the traits DO make a big difference.

Thanks happy

Btw maybe we could teach AI to be less chilly with mortars ?

I mean it's a shame if they wait to have 80% CtH to use their mortar. This weapon does so much area damage, shooting defensive mortars to the place they suspect us to be, even with a low CtH, could bring some stress and force ourselves to take them down first happy

So far enemies never used their mortars against me in my whole playthrough.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354497 is a reply to message #354496] Thu, 23 August 2018 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2472
Registered:May 2009
I'm not working with the AI. Sorry. Maybe Sevenfm will implement some of his AI improvements in the future, not sure if this covers mortars yet.



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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354498 is a reply to message #354496] Thu, 23 August 2018 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:314
Registered:December 2017
Location: here
RedFaction wrote on Thu, 23 August 2018 00:48
So far enemies never used their mortars against me in my whole playthrough.

May want to try seven's excellent 7609_AI exe, soldiers dont spare grenades or shells,
e.g. play with ed's Arulco Vacations mod, there i got plenty of enemy mortar fire,
might have used them whenver they could, like shells on single targets triggered by noises when mercs left vision field of enemies,
luckily mostly smoke, otherwise it could have been devastating,
also the spies helped a lot to pick mortar soldiers before they could pose a threat.
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354500 is a reply to message #354498] Thu, 23 August 2018 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RedFaction

 
Messages:37
Registered:July 2018
townltu wrote on Thu, 23 August 2018 01:54
May want to try seven's excellent 7609_AI exe, soldiers dont spare grenades or shells,
e.g. play with ed's Arulco Vacations mod, there i got plenty of enemy mortar fire

Wow that's exactly what I'm looking for !

So there is an alternative executable to do this ?

How about the compatibility with other ongoing developments ?

I usually pick the last SCI on this thread to get up to date. Looks like it is presently on revision 8595. There is quite a gap with 7609 big grin
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354502 is a reply to message #354496] Thu, 23 August 2018 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1786
Registered:December 2012
Location: Soviet Russia
RedFaction wrote on Thu, 23 August 2018 02:48
Btw maybe we could teach AI to be less chilly with mortars ?

I mean it's a shame if they wait to have 80% CtH to use their mortar. This weapon does so much area damage, shooting defensive mortars to the place they suspect us to be, even with a low CtH, could bring some stress and force ourselves to take them down first happy

So far enemies never used their mortars against me in my whole playthrough.

Lowering requirements for using mortar for AI in CalcBestThrow() is easy, but teaching it to use it against invisible (heard only) opponents would require more work.



7609+fix | 7609+AI (r922) | 7609 unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Vengeance:Reloaded | Youtube

"It's already "dog-eat-dog", friend. Not sure what worse a bunch of zombies could do."


Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354504 is a reply to message #354502] Thu, 23 August 2018 20:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crackwise

 
Messages:52
Registered:April 2013
Sevenfm's AI mod is awesome, such a shame it is not included in the main branch. The default v1.13 AI is unfortunately pretty dumb and predictable.

About mortars: I am currently playing Arulco Revisited + SDO + AI mod, and the enemies frequently use their mortars. And since mortars are, as said before, really accurate, I had to tune down the explosion damage of mortar shells while increasing their stun damage as well as the explosion radius.

That way, I am able to simulate the area suppression effect of mortars, which is how it works in reality happy
Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354505 is a reply to message #354504] Thu, 23 August 2018 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1132
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
Quote:
I had to tune down the explosion damage of mortar shells while increasing their stun damage as well as the explosion radius.


That is a good idea! What are the numbers you are using?




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Re: Is heavy weapon skill worth ?[message #354522 is a reply to message #354505] Sat, 25 August 2018 00:11 Go to previous message
crackwise

 
Messages:52
Registered:April 2013
I have modified the <uiIndex>9</uiIndex> item in explosives.xml in DATA-SDO.

Explosive damage: 20
Stun damage: 80

I have apparently kept the radius unchanged but have included fragmentation to simulate shrapnel flying around:

frag damage: 10
Num of frag: 200
frag range: 100
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