Home » CHIT-CHAT » All About Gaming » Jagged Alliance Rage - First Gameplay
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Re: Jagged Alliance Rage - First Gameplay[message #354492 is a reply to message #354487] |
Wed, 22 August 2018 21:27   | |
| Flugente
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Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Coding small bits/doing bits of graphics is easy.
Designing a new game from the ground up? Over several years? Coordinating what amounts to a company? Paying salaries? Somehow keeping it all together? That is very hard. Even the much derided JA successor games, like this one, present a huge amount of work going in.
And you can forget any idea about 'the comunity' somehow making it up on the go by everybody commiting tiny bits of work for free that somehow mesh up to become a functioning game. To be polite, that's an extremely idealistic hope. The best you can hope for is 1.13 in its current state, with all of the many flaws it currently has. Itmight be different in other communities, but nothing I've seen so far gives me reason to believe otherwise.
I've lost count of how often I've heard 'hey, let's create a new JA game from the ground up'. But perhaps I've just missed all the games that came out from that.
[Updated on: Wed, 22 August 2018 21:28]
"Is there any way to get the blood to flow up the walls?"
"I don't see why not."
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.
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Aw: Re: Jagged Alliance Rage - First Gameplay[message #354499 is a reply to message #354493] |
Thu, 23 August 2018 09:06 | |
| ATigersClaw
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Messages:193
Registered:October 2014
Location: Brunswick, Germany |
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I'm not as naive of thinking that some small contributions from each of us would result in a great game, or even in a complete game at all. I don't think that is possible just using the community. I'm totally with Flugente. But on the other hand, do we have to start out big with a complete plan of everything? I don't think so.
On here, we do have the knowledge what makes JA2 great and there hasn't been a worthy successor for JA2.
With those two facts, wouldn't it be possible to start out small by e. g. creating the gaming concept incorporating the ideas from JA2 & 1.13 + some sketches of how it should look etc..
This info should be enough to then start a crowdfunding campaign with which we hopefully get our proof of concept (people backing us).
If people don't back us enough, just forget about the thought, not too much energy has been spent.
If people back us, we could take the second step and look for a game development company, that would realize this on the promise of our concept.
To make a long story short: Let's use what we have and put together of what we think would be a great successor without investing too much time into it. If it proofs good, let's see how we advance then.
This is only possible though, if we can get some of the veterans on here contributing as well, otherwise I wouldn't even start phase 1.
Give me some feedback on those thoughts and if theres enough response, I would create a separate thread for this.
“Discipline is choosing between what you want now and what you want most.” - Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Aw: Re: Jagged Alliance Rage - First Gameplay[message #354506 is a reply to message #354503] |
Thu, 23 August 2018 22:24 | |
| Sniki Hor
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Messages:15
Registered:August 2006
Location: Croatia |
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I'm not thinking so far as completely finnished product like game box in the game store ready to be sold.
More of a chess or even better tabletop game where instead of you needing to know/read all the rules for each combination of unit, weapon, gear, range, terrain, situation and calculate (add random throw dice) each shot, move, wound computer would do that for you. And then if that is possible we can add shot sound, hit sound, move forward animation, skills etc.
More like engine(is it right word?) that can/will handle/do that rulebook and calculation stuff.
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Re: Aw: Re: Jagged Alliance Rage - First Gameplay[message #354510 is a reply to message #354506] |
Fri, 24 August 2018 09:40 | |
| Zarax
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Messages:51
Registered:February 2007
Location: Italy |
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Sniki Hor wrote on Thu, 23 August 2018 22:24I'm not thinking so far as completely finnished product like game box in the game store ready to be sold.
More of a chess or even better tabletop game where instead of you needing to know/read all the rules for each combination of unit, weapon, gear, range, terrain, situation and calculate (add random throw dice) each shot, move, wound computer would do that for you. And then if that is possible we can add shot sound, hit sound, move forward animation, skills etc.
More like engine(is it right word?) that can/will handle/do that rulebook and calculation stuff.
It's not that easy I'm afraid.
Let's start from the basic concept...
Do we want to use/keep a Voxel engine?
Pros: deformable terrain, easier on hardware, we could re-use JA2 assets for prototypes
Cons: art has to be hand made, difficult to animate, difficult to make high definition art
Do we want a ready engine like Unity?
Pros: Easier start-up, tons of ready assets for productivity, good talent pool available
Cons: Commercial license is an issue, hard to customize beyond a certain point, it will likely end up like a Wasteland 2 or XCOM clone in the best case
That doesn't even start to touch issues like paying for artists (both for GFX and VA), QA, etc...
No matter the choice, even making something with a bare semblance to a JA clone will take years and in the meantime all you will be able to show would be a very limited and unpolished demo at best.
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Re: Aw: Jagged Alliance Rage - First Gameplay[message #354530 is a reply to message #354519] |
Sun, 26 August 2018 04:41 | |
| Shinobi
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Messages:144
Registered:July 2015
Location: Mexico |
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I was working in a simple game like JA2 1.13 with a friend but more focused in a "Black Lagoon" kinda ambiance, but... long story short my good PC died and i can't keep working on it for now. (my current PC struggles not to fall apart)
And what keeps me awake at night thinking in wether is a good idea or not is the why, WHY!? every game after JA2 has met a horrible fate?
althought i "kinda" enoyed the "online reloaded" one casually, like... i'd play it if it was a mobile game... and it didn't had microtransactions pushed everywhere...
[Updated on: Sun, 26 August 2018 04:43]
Oh, God please tie this rope tight, A noose that fits just right, Oh, God please tie this rope tight, Hold my head upright, Take this knife across my throat, And make amends for all my lies.
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Re: Aw: Jagged Alliance Rage - First Gameplay[message #354547 is a reply to message #354530] |
Sun, 26 August 2018 21:47 | |
| Sniki Hor
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Messages:15
Registered:August 2006
Location: Croatia |
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As long as there is interest...
Let's go 1 by 1 and see where it takes us...
We don't have millions, game company, AI farms..
Me, I have>
I've been/am scribbling/collecting ideas/concepts/thought for couple of years of what would make a good turn based game. Focus is more on a turn based platform which would be easy to mod, expand and with all this could be used then to make turn based games.
Where game would be like lego town with police stations, fire station, train, roads... This would be more like lego bricks/parts which you can turn into lego town, lego desert, lego under earth tunnels... Kind like Minecraft with much smaller blocks would be good example.
This is not some finished guidance, plan or anything easy to read and understand but lots of bits and pieces here and there... room full of parts scattered around the floor, walls, closets.. and it all this mess needs to be collected, explained, expanded, categorized... So everyone could understand it.
I'm collecting this into html file since this has been easiest so far.
(Aybody knows any program or whatever where you can write text, link documents, add tables, include images, draw arrows/pointers/lines and easily drag all this around screen? Tried some free wikilikes systems but no joy yet)
Also I can create 3D meshes (I use wings 3D, free 3d program) I'm more into "static" mechanical stuff, like guns, vehicles, structures than organic things that can change shape/mesh like face, clothes.
What others have, can, think they can, willing to?
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Re: Aw: Jagged Alliance Rage - First Gameplay[message #354603 is a reply to message #354601] |
Thu, 30 August 2018 21:43 | |
| Flugente
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Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Basically he does acknowledge that making a game that is a worthy successor, a real JA3, would require way more resources and time than they have at this point (he mentions that creating a true successor would take 4+ years). So the idea behind this game is that of a smaller spinoff.
He also confirms that the merc roster is indeed smaller (you start with 2 mercs, but get more mercs and mechanics later on), which allows them to focus more on individual mercs. As they have fewer mercs, this allows fleshing those that they have more (also seen in the gameplay videos where Shadow and Raven argue, I imagine this will continue later on. Benefit of having mercs in a defined state, we can't do that in JA2).
The interviewer also asks whether the cheap-90s-action movie vibe was intentional - which it was (make sense, since JA games always had that).
He acknowledges that the games focus is on tactical combat, you can't do as much as in JA2.
Honestly? The dev sounds pretty reasonable to me. If the idea is to have a small-scale JA-lite game, then this kinda works (yes, there are a ton of features I'd really want and stuff that annoys me. For me, a part of that also comes from the gameplay videos itself). As they are a small developer, its easy to see they used what they could (engine-wise and all).
I guess what will really, really bite them in the ass is that everyone assumes (well, I did) this was supposed to be a 'full' successor, which it isn't. As a worthy successor, it fails imho. As a small spin-off (to me it has a commandos vibe) it might work on it's own, but the unfortunate comparisons will be tough on this.
"Is there any way to get the blood to flow up the walls?"
"I don't see why not."
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.
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. If Star Citizen could crowdfund 200 million dollars, I'm sure you could get enough as well, if you form a team and a project, and ask on Kickstarter. That would be so awesome. 
