Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies
Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies[message #355023] Fri, 21 September 2018 23:19 Go to next message

Registered:October 2015
I've always felt JA should have a sleeping mechanic for the enemies/militia like it does for our own mercs. I've found this especially strange in wilderness areas.

As with all military operations, sleep is both a nessecity and a weakness. Long range patrols naturally want to catch their enemies off guard, but also require sleep of their own to remain combat effective. Therefore, it becomes a bit of a game of chess between patrol commanders as to who will be prepared, and who will be left exposed.

Night Ops in JA 1.13 is already excellent, and is dominanted heavily by throwing knives and silenced rifles. I hesitate to give this area a boost, but I think there are a few ways to make it balanced:

1. Only half the unit sleeps at a time
2. Sleeping enemies are woken up by gunshots and alerts
3. Sleeping time is unique to the unit and is not global
Perhaps a unit could exercise sleep during the day time? Keeps things from being fully static
If the player can discover the sleeping time (via observation or a spy), they can potentially exploit the enemy force
4. A unit can forgo sleep if they are aware of mercs in the neighboring sectors
5. Less sleep is required in city sectors (due to easier conditions)
6. Sleep is determined by tier
Ex. Admins require 6 hours, Regulars 4 hours, Elites 2 hours
7. A well rested unit recieves a bonus to AP for x hours
This could be a fun area to build off of. If we wanted to expand upon this, perhaps a woken unit could receive an AP penalty, making it viable to harass a unit at night in preparation for a daytime assault?
8. Defenses might be in place?
This might be a stretch, but if any sleeping units possess bombs or mines, perhaps they are deployed during any sleeping encounter?
9. Sleeping enemies are prone and harder to hit with a ranged weapon
Really just an idea to carve melee a little section in the game angel Especially if missed ranged attacks could wake up sleeping enemies

Again, just a fun set of ideas. I'm not super particular on any of these ideas, so any which way it could work would be fine by me. In particular, I think it might make sneaking a bit more viable, and make the game potentially more interesting
Re: Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies[message #355025 is a reply to message #355023] Sat, 22 September 2018 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:May 2009
1. Night Ops already requires less sleep.
2. Useless, because when we enter a hostile sector everyone is woken up anyway.
3. It already is per unit and yes, enemy units sleep as well. You just don't get to see it. You only see patrols taking breaks from time to time.
5. This feature already exists. You can rest in a motel or other form of facility or use a sleeping bag anywhere.
6. Requirement for sleep is determined by the body. Special training (Night Ops) can lower it somewhat.
7. A not rested unit receives an AP penalty. Only rested units have full AP.

So all in all I don't see much reason to implement the missing points. The game wouldn't even know how to set up watch points or patrols when other soldiers are sleeping and use shifts so everyone gets some sleep. That's just too much hassle for a bit of eye candy in my opinion.

Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies[message #355034 is a reply to message #355025] Sat, 22 September 2018 19:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
I have never seen enemies sleeping in this game. I had the idea of allowing them to sleep in tactics at night in Ja2+AI.
I remember opponents sleeping in FT, you can catch them by surprise when attacking silently at night.

[Updated on: Sat, 22 September 2018 19:51]

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Re: Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies[message #355036 is a reply to message #355023] Sat, 22 September 2018 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I can see Sleeping enemies interesting in two cases :

  1. Stealth approach
  2. Covert/spy roaming in enemy territory

Animations are already there. However the placement on the map of the sleepers may be tricky no?

I don't know if the effort is worth the gameplay gain. It would add to immersion yet.

Re: Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies[message #355038 is a reply to message #355034] Sat, 22 September 2018 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:October 2015
I'd honestly be happy with something simple. I just think it would be nice to occasionally catch the enemy unprepared.

If any of you have ever played the 'Commando' games, it features sleeping enemies and it adds a lot to the stealth experience. I feel like night ops and covert ops are fleshed out well in 1.13, but stealth ops doesn't have much of a niche.
Re: Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies[message #355040 is a reply to message #355038] Sat, 22 September 2018 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:December 2017
Location: here
If enemies can be sleeping when a battle starts, the same should also apply for mercs,
so they must have radio/EE device that their friends can instantly wake them up,
else the general conditions for wakeup(noises ,injuties ) apply
additionally it takes x + y(lvl of "cares about own appearance") turns until they are fianally battle ready;)

Sleeping enemies in Fallout Tactics appear to be placed on the map, sleeping condition is independant of daytime,
neverthelss a nice variation for a game with more or less predifined paths for every option to approach a map,
perhaps less in a more sandbox like game like JA2,
while map designs which take hypothetically existing "sleeping entities" feature into account may be quite interesting when new,
the knowledge about the "correct" approach may make them soon less interesting than sandbox sectors.
Re: Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies[message #355066 is a reply to message #355040] Mon, 24 September 2018 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:June 2016
Location: Norway
While the mercs are resting or doing who knows what in a sector, enemies invade the sector, all mercs do wake up.

How did they know that there are enemies in sector in the first place ? Same way that enemies know that their enemies (mercs) have entered the sector. Maybe there is satellite surveillance for both sides.

Lets not overcomplicate the game anymore than it's needed. I hear everyone talking about "balance" in the game. Balance, by who's criteria ? Everyone has their own idea of "balance". There are teams of excellent modders working on JA2 for 20 or more years, in the Bear's Pit and elsewhere. The game has become almost a simulator. It is very well balanced as it is.

[Updated on: Mon, 24 September 2018 08:35]

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Re: Feature Idea: Sleeping Enemies[message #357766 is a reply to message #355066] Sun, 04 August 2019 08:54 Go to previous message

Registered:July 2019
This takes me back to the classic Metal Gear games (love to have that equipment list in the game) back in the early Nintendo days where you'd see and hear guards fall asleep.

I remember one very successful night operation in Grumm where I killed two of the wanted terrorists and left without having to deal with the guards a signed there.

One tip though after I wiped out the Hicks family I had everyone bed down at the farm. We woke up to more Hicks who just arrived and had to take them on in close quarters. After that the quest was considered successful.

In my post victory fanfiction I had Wolf taking over the farm and raising cattle. Florence "Flo" Gabriel is living with him and rehabbing the farm to the disgust of Biff who is teach on the island as well.
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