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Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355068] Mon, 24 September 2018 10:04 Go to next message
Zarax

 
Messages:51
Registered:February 2007
Location: Italy
Before you jump on disagreement, put aside the post-apocalyptic environment and focus on the mechanics.
You may or may not like Inxile and the game but personally I think it was competently made (although I don't agree with some choices) and the latest version improved quite a bit imho.

Let's see the similarities:

- Squad Based
- You can more or less target body parts with different effects
- Skill specialization
- Diversified weapon mechanics
- Limited character interaction
- Character interaction (albeit more limited)

I know there are no sectors, the map is not as dynamic as the one in JA2 and there is no AIM/MERC but if I had money and wanted to remake JA2 in Unity I would hire Inxile and start off their WL game.

Sadly Wasteland 2 is not very moddable or it could have been an interesting experiment...

What do you guys think?
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355072 is a reply to message #355068] Mon, 24 September 2018 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morbo513

 
Messages:47
Registered:February 2015
Location: West Yorkshire, United Ki...
Aah, imo JA2 is in a class of its own when it comes to turn-based tactics, at least with 1.13. I haven't yet played WL2 myself (Thanks for reminding me it exists), but the features you list there aren't exactly rarities in TBT. And from what I've seen and heard of it, it's more like a linear Fallout game.
You might be interested in Underrail, it's a recent post-apocalypse isometric RPG/TBT in the same vein as Fallout and Wasteland.
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355073 is a reply to message #355072] Mon, 24 September 2018 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gougluinn

 
Messages:87
Registered:September 2018
i wonder what legendary ja2 developers do nowadays... they just simply quit from the game world?

[Updated on: Mon, 24 September 2018 13:03]

Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355074 is a reply to message #355068] Mon, 24 September 2018 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Good thing you mention what they've become, as it's a reminder for whoever is paying attention that JA2 was a masterpiece and it happened only one time, with the right conditions focused in one game.
It's not really possible to reunite those conditions again willingly. Those masterpiece games only come once.

To answer partially the question, for what i know, they spread to other companies and projects. They contributed to several big games around (Lord of the rings online is the only one i remember), but their fame is mostly attached to Sir-Tech for what i know.

As for Wasteland 2, several other games may be closer to JA2 than this one. Is it really what matters? I'd wager on the quality of the game more than how close it is to JA2 (imho).
Wasteland 2 is not a bad game in the genre, if you don't know it, have a try! Don't expect to have ja2's strategic layer, humour, feeling, character relationships and the likes though.
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355076 is a reply to message #355074] Mon, 24 September 2018 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1448
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
7.62 High Calibre mods will do the trick. Some of them even include JA2 mercs. Not exactly a recent game anymore but never mind that. Realtime with pausing and planning but it still manages to feel kinda turn-based.
I can also recommend checking out some bigger Open X-Com mods. Something like X-PirateZ. Lacks character interaction and is a bit ridiculous but there's a big story to be found there. All told via research.

[Updated on: Mon, 24 September 2018 15:48]




1.13: Install JA2, unpack latest, play.
AIMNAS: Complete 1.13 installation, Download ZIP and unpack, play.

Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355077 is a reply to message #355074] Mon, 24 September 2018 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2407
Registered:May 2009
grim wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 13:04

To answer partially the question, for what i know, they spread to other companies and projects. They contributed to several big games around (Lord of the rings online is the only one i remember), but their fame is mostly attached to Sir-Tech for what i know.

You must mean the original "Lord of the Rings Online" which was a good game. Unfortunately most of the original developers have been laid off long ago and Turbine and its successor have turned this game into a "pay to win teletubbie wonderland"...



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355078 is a reply to message #355077] Mon, 24 September 2018 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Indeed, Silversurfer ;)
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355086 is a reply to message #355078] Tue, 25 September 2018 06:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morbo513

 
Messages:47
Registered:February 2015
Location: West Yorkshire, United Ki...
Oh yeah, don't know how I managed to forget about 7.62 (And its predecessor, Brigade E5) since it's clearly meant to be a "successor" to JA2. It's full to the brim with that good ol eastern-european-vidyagame jank and humour. I played it with the BlueSun mod, never managed to finish it though.
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355089 is a reply to message #355086] Tue, 25 September 2018 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shinobi

 
Messages:144
Registered:July 2015
Location: Mexico
I played 7,62 a while but it felt a bit weird, idk, i was used to JA2 mechanics and controls so it came off kinda weird.
it still felt a little rough on the edges tho, and the mods are idk, haven't seen 'em but i think they may be a little abandoned.
on a similar matter i was playing Fallout 2 a while ago and i couldn't help but think how sweet it'd be to remake it on the JA2 engine since some of it's mechanics are a bit outdated and sometimes they are a little painful.
and i thought that all this could be just cool to play it the JA2 engine.



Oh, God please tie this rope tight, A noose that fits just right, Oh, God please tie this rope tight, Hold my head upright, Take this knife across my throat, And make amends for all my lies.
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355091 is a reply to message #355089] Tue, 25 September 2018 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morbo513

 
Messages:47
Registered:February 2015
Location: West Yorkshire, United Ki...
Yeah, Fallout with some of JA2/1.13's mechanics (and their general gameplay) would be something else. Last time I played F1 I gave up so quickly because of how glacial its combat is in comparison.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 September 2018 08:21]

Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355092 is a reply to message #355091] Tue, 25 September 2018 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zarax

 
Messages:51
Registered:February 2007
Location: Italy
Fallout Tactics was especially close and Wasteland 2 is a nice spiritual sequel to that...
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355116 is a reply to message #355091] Wed, 26 September 2018 03:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shinobi

 
Messages:144
Registered:July 2015
Location: Mexico
I tried to play with a mod but when i got so far apparently i enabled these mutant invasions that at some point ended up taking over important cities before i was able to get so far, and at some point all the cities were swarmed with mutants including vault 13, so i took that as a game over until i started playing FO2.
this time i played with a mod that only fixed some bugs and patched some stuff from the Vanilla game and rebalanced a few stuff.
the thing that made me think more about how it'd be cooler on the JA2 engine was probably the weapons and combat, and probably how painful companions are, getting in the middle of the combat and or shooting you or another companion, and perhaps the why energy weapons are probably so effective, which probably wouldn't be much of a problem, not being because despite there apparently being both small and big energy weapons they seem to have their own skill level, and having attachments would be cool too.

I fantasized a lot about it.



Oh, God please tie this rope tight, A noose that fits just right, Oh, God please tie this rope tight, Hold my head upright, Take this knife across my throat, And make amends for all my lies.
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355130 is a reply to message #355086] Wed, 26 September 2018 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1448
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Morbo513 wrote on Tue, 25 September 2018 06:03
Oh yeah, don't know how I managed to forget about 7.62 (And its predecessor, Brigade E5) since it's clearly meant to be a "successor" to JA2. It's full to the brim with that good ol eastern-european-vidyagame jank and humour. I played it with the BlueSun mod, never managed to finish it though.

Shinobi wrote on Tue, 25 September 2018 06:59
I played 7,62 a while but it felt a bit weird, idk, i was used to JA2 mechanics and controls so it came off kinda weird.
it still felt a little rough on the edges tho, and the mods are idk, haven't seen 'em but i think they may be a little abandoned.
on a similar matter i was playing Fallout 2 a while ago and i couldn't help but think how sweet it'd be to remake it on the JA2 engine since some of it's mechanics are a bit outdated and sometimes they are a little painful.
and i thought that all this could be just cool to play it the JA2 engine.

Blue Sun is a good one, yeah. Has some JA2 mercs. Overall it's a very long and slow game so most people don't finish it, I think. Think I'll say that it has less structure than JA2. You can easily take the wrong jobs early on and end up in some scenario where you're severely outnumbered and outgunned somewhere in the wilderness. Not an easy game to cheese so you better use multiple saves. big grin

Seems like the Steam version comes with something called 7.62 Hard Life. Fan fixes, better translations, more quests and NPCs. That kind of stuff. You know the drill. Also has Workshop support so that makes experimentation quicker and easier, I guess. Haven't tried it yet but it's on my to-do list.



1.13: Install JA2, unpack latest, play.
AIMNAS: Complete 1.13 installation, Download ZIP and unpack, play.

Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355131 is a reply to message #355130] Wed, 26 September 2018 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3929
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Having completed Wasteland 2 ( I found it an excellent game , more in the Fallout vein though ) and well into Underrail ( also very Fallout like ) nothing I have played comes close to JA2 and all it's mods . Also played the Russian variants Brigade E5 , 7.62 along with Silent Storm , they're ok for a run through , nothing special though . as for Breach and Clear , it was fun for a wee while , didn't last long enough though !


Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355132 is a reply to message #355068] Wed, 26 September 2018 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob

 
Messages:406
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
JA2 is still in a class of its own thanks to the excellent mix of semi-simulated bullets, working 3d cover, elaborate skill calculations that just feel right, and its rich variety of gameplay mechanics.

1.13's NCTH one-ups the original by another notch. So far nothing comes close.

I liked Fallout Tactics, the campaign offered many great opportunities for rewarding tactical and stealth gameplay, but the dice-roll based hits and no real significance of cover (IIRC once you can see the target, CTH is not affected by cover) made the combat mechanics feel shallow in comparison. I liked how characters could go prone and crawl through low cover, and how great ambushes could work.

Recently I'm playing Xenonauts and like the original XCOM, it's great fun but again combat seems simplistic and overly dependent on some arbitrary rules and dice rolls instead of actual battlefield conditions. Things get very schematic after a few dozen battles. There's a simple cover mechanic, coupled with a bunch of weird look-around-corners mechanics that remain confusing 40 hours into the game, but it all feels so simplistic compared to JA2.

Wasteland 2 was kinda in the middle between Fallout Tactics and earlier Fallout games. I don't remember exactly if cover did anything other than blocking line of sight but IIRC combat was mostly a matter of getting enemies within range and got progressively easier by the end once powerful long range weapons were available and the rangers got decent accuracy skills. I remember earlier it was a matter of getting the damage-dealers close enough to do their thing, later on the sniper lady I recruited could one-shot robots from across the map. Then again I probably forgot about all the extra skills that made things more interesting. I enjoyed the game for what it was, I liked the setting and how the story played out, although it did feel kinda unfinished towards the end. Combat didn't seem to be the focus of the game though.

Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355150 is a reply to message #355132] Thu, 27 September 2018 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zarax

 
Messages:51
Registered:February 2007
Location: Italy
The director's cut edition seems to fix most of the unpolished aspects and added a decent cover (with some of it destroyable) and body part targeting system along with perks, which imho made the combat feel closer to JA2.

Character management and the strategic aspect do lack the same depth of course but overall I find the battles a lot better than XCOM for example.
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355177 is a reply to message #355131] Sat, 29 September 2018 03:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shinobi

 
Messages:144
Registered:July 2015
Location: Mexico
i got breach n clear on steam but refunded it, turned out to be a port of the phone version.
in which case i'd probably go more for ARMA tactics instead.

Sad there aren't many games for phones like that, JA online should have been on phones instead, it would've been entertaining as to play while away.



Oh, God please tie this rope tight, A noose that fits just right, Oh, God please tie this rope tight, Hold my head upright, Take this knife across my throat, And make amends for all my lies.
Re: Wasteland 2: Closest thing to JA2 around?[message #355187 is a reply to message #355177] Sun, 30 September 2018 16:23 Go to previous message
Gopas

 
Messages:175
Registered:June 2016
Location: Norway
Yep, this thread made me check out Wasteland 2 Director's Cut and it's AWESOME. I have always loved the Fallout series and Wasteland 2 is the child of Fallout and JA games.

Squad based rpg, combining elements from the JA games such as tactics, inventory micromanagement and moral decisions (both elements are present in both the JA and Fallout series) with elements from the Fallout series, mutants, robots, ambient sound,etc.

Overall a very entertaining game with quest decisions affecting many outcomes, it's as complicated as the Witchers, must do online research to see what outcome i want or not.

[Updated on: Sun, 30 September 2018 16:23]




Just another old soldier.
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