Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab » Idea on fixing traits for rifles (Rifles, Assault Rifles, Sniper Rifles, LMGs ..)
| Idea on fixing traits for rifles[message #358915]
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Mon, 03 February 2020 04:04 
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| CptMoore |
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Messages:224
Registered:March 2009 |
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Hi there,
Questions/Idea here that I want to check with you guys first before implementing such a thing.
I'm always coming back to JA 1.13 and aimnas over the years, and my #1 problem I have are those gameplay mechanics that are based on weapon categories instead of weapon characteristics.
Rifle, Assault Rifle, Sniper Rifle and LMGs are for me one big group when it comes to gameplay mechanics as they all share similar characteristics
My issue specifically are the trait parts that cover aimlevel, CTH and effective range bonuses.
For example, a DMR assault rifle does not get aimlevel bonuses that are only for sniper rifles or rifles, even if it can shoot semi-auto same as a sniper rifle.
So my planned "fixes" would include the following parts... (my preferred solutions in bold)
Fix POSSIBLE_AIM_CLICK_ADDED_*, AIMING_BONUS_PER_CLICK_* (see Skills_Settings.ini):
- Merge into single POSSIBLE_AIM_CLICK_ADDED and AIMING_BONUS_PER_CLICK that apply to all weapon categories.
- Or remove or set defaults to 0
- Or keep combined Pistol/MP, keep Shotgun, but merge all Rifles+MG.
- Or, if feasible, differentiate by holding posture. Guns that use a stock (non-pistol) and guns that don't (pistol, temporarly folded stocks). Gunslinger would help with aiming without a stock while sniper would help with stock, ranger would get reduced bonuses for both.
Fix *CTH_MODIFIER:
- Merge *CTH_MODIFIER into CTH_MODIFIER.
- Or categorize 1) Pistol/MP 2) Shotgun 3) Rifles+MG, same as with aimlevels.
- Or remove or set defaults to 0
- Or, if feasible, adding a flat CTH bonus to a target at a certain range. Like CTH_MODIFIER_>500M=5% for snipers, CTH_MODIFIER_<50M=10% for gunslingers and ranger for in between. Auto Weapons get CTH for burst and auto fire no matter what range.
Fix EFFECTIVE_RANGE_TO_TARGET_REDUCTION, EFFECTIVE_RANGE_BONUS_*:
- Remove EFFECTIVE_RANGE_BONUS_* bonuses, sniper would be the only magician regarding range as we keep EFFECTIVE_RANGE_TO_TARGET_REDUCTION.
- Or remove all or set defaults to 0
- Or keep as is, as it makes pistol/mp and shotguns more viable gameplay wise
I already know that aimlevels are hardcoded to fall back to fixed base levels based on the category of a gun, instead I would like to change that for NCTH to the range of a gun.
I don't know if there are other category based game mechanics under the hood, but those were the ones that keep nagging me for years.
Please provide feedback to the overall idea and/or specific points.
Greetings,
CptMoore
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: Idea on fixing traits for rifles[message #358917 is a reply to message #358916]
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Mon, 03 February 2020 12:25 
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| CptMoore |
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Messages:224
Registered:March 2009 |
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Thx for the feedback, do have objections e.g. around LMGs
As LMGs we have e.g. the MG36, same gun as G36 just with a thicker barrel and worse stats in-game. The Aug HBAR also has worse accuracy than the AR variant and also has higher single shot AP (only slight though). Wouldn't that be enough to say that a sniper can use it and leverage his/her sniper skills, but those skills are wasted compared to using guns with better sniping characteristics? I just want to get rid of that the naming of the weapons category has some influence on the gameplay mechanics. I dont want to make LMGs be equal to snipers.
E.g. if a modder accidentally puts the m24 sniper rifle into the pistol category, while keeping the stats of the rifle, it shouldn't behave differently during combat (right now it would..). That's what I want to achieve, finding some other stats than weapon category to calculate the aiming bonus (e.g. accuracy, range, etc..).
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: Idea on fixing traits for rifles[message #358920 is a reply to message #358919]
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Mon, 03 February 2020 15:59
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| CptMoore |
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Messages:224
Registered:March 2009 |
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Quote:Weapon class and type are the only ways for the game to tell the difference.
That's what is currently wrong and I believe I can fix. If a gun is inherently a worse gun for sniping (e.g. a M60), why do we need to put it additionally into a category that says "not sniper"?
We have accuracy, range, aim levels, optics and so much more already in the game for each gun. What game mechanics does "weapon category" produce that we can't model already with these and other stats? If we still need category, that would be the issue here.
E.g. M60 is flagged HeavyWeapon, while the MG36 is not.. both are LMG though. Since MG36 can be handled similar to a G36, shouldn't it behave similar then also in regards to the user with traits? Handling the M82A2 should benefit from sniper as well as from heavy weapons traits (assuming that would help with actual HeavyWeapon flagged weapons, which it currently doesn't), by using categories as stat we artificially limit where traits could be useful.
By removing weapon category as a pseudo stat, modders would have one chance less to make a gameplay mistake, and players have one less issue in understanding the traits. The weapon category should only be used for a single purpose, determining under which Bobby Rays tab to show the weapon. That is what I also found as quote from 2008 in the code: Quote:UINT8 ubWeaponType; // exact type (for display purposes)
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: Idea on fixing traits for rifles[message #358924 is a reply to message #358922]
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Mon, 03 February 2020 19:53
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| CptMoore |
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Messages:224
Registered:March 2009 |
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I'm basing my ideas on AIMNAS project item values, sorry for the confusion. There "HeavyWeapon" is being used (I assume to force hipfire animations?) and the MGs are given less base nAccuracy than their counterpart assault rifle weapons.
I understand now where your angle comes from regarding weapon classes LMG vs other rifles, as vanilla values are definitely not as balanced for such a change. Especially when looking at OCTH.
Vanilla RPK vs AK-47
ubReadyTime 19 vs 15
ubShotsPer4Turns 12.67 vs 12.85
bAccuracy 5 vs 4
usRange 400 vs 330
APsToReload 24 vs 20
nAccuracy 70 vs 63
ubAimLevels 5 vs 4
Handling 12 vs 11
ubWeight 48 vs 38
In vanilla, except for ready/firing speed, the AK-47 is worse than the RPK.
AIMSNAS RPK vs AK-47
ubReadyTime 15 vs 10
ubShotsPer4Turns 12.7 vs 15.2
bAccuracy 5 vs 4
usRange 840 vs 660
APsToReload 30 vs 28
nAccuracy 69 vs 73
ubAimLevels 5 vs 5
Handling 17 vs 12
ubWeight 48 vs 42
In AIMNAS, only OCTH and range is worse on an AK-47.
AIMNAS Tabuk DMR (same calibre) sniper rifle
ubReadyTime 11
ubShotsPer4Turns 11.5
bAccuracy 6
usRange 760
APsToReload 28
nAccuracy 86
ubAimLevels 8
Handling 16
ubWeight 45
Tabuk DMR wins except for speed.
Considering there are other mods that I never could reach, it probably makes sense to not include LMGs for the sniper traits.
Best would be just make it configurable and allow AIMNAS to decide getting rid of LMGs special status in Skills_Settings.ini .
I could make that for all weaponcategory based traits.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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