Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » The A.I.M. Library » Do you allow casualties?
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #262229] Sat, 11 September 2010 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bouben

 
Messages:13
Registered:November 2009
Guys, terrible first-time experience happened. One of my IMPs died during that huge enemy counter-attack on Drassen. I play ironman mode, experienced difficulty and there were only 10 enemies left after 3 sustained hours of adrenalin combat (cause of my inexperience too). It was probably the twentieth try to beat that counter-attack so I was reasonably excited, that I am so close to win that. So when he died, I was really sad about it, but didn't even think about restarting that hell. Very Happy

Now I am prepared for occasional accepting of dying of my characters.

But wow! The game is much more exciting now. Cool

[Updated on: Sat, 11 September 2010 17:39] by Moderator

Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #262230] Sat, 11 September 2010 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
you got it :pitchfork:
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #262231] Sat, 11 September 2010 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1568
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
welcome in the mature world
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #262277] Sat, 11 September 2010 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:161
Registered:October 2009
You have tasted the fruit. Victory is sweet, but sometimes you have to accept some bitter bile with it.
That's why I also play Ironman mode on hardcore campaigning. You make a mistake, you gotta live with the consequences.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #262688] Wed, 15 September 2010 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
I usualy allow for anyone getting wounded. This can become much more challenging strategical wise when important operations have to be delayed or cancelled because of serveral key mercs being seriously wounded. This can go as far as retreating from a city we have just started to conquer because the entire team is bleeding out of additional holes.

I allow for deaths as long as it does not get out of hand. There are always the favorite mercs you don't want to lose, but KIAs can also get to a point when moral drops so dramatically that your mercs refuse to hit the guy in front of them to save their own lives. At this point the game can become unplayable.

There are two situations where I generally don't accept bad results. The one is when searching for the last camper and I don't want to move my team around the entire sector the proper way I sent one searching for him, and in case the enemy got the first shot I reload and do it again, this time the proper way. The other one is when suffering from limitations of the engine. For example you want your merc to make one step into the doorway, instead you had clicked a tile to far and he goes around the door and ends his turn with 0 AP facing the wall turning his back to the enemy who for sure will come out of the next door this turn.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #262689] Wed, 15 September 2010 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raktavijan

 
Messages:25
Registered:July 2010
Location: Finland
I don't allow casualties, ever. It's something I learned from my brother and implemented in my gameplay style. Wounds I can allow as long as they're not really serious (i.e. it would take half a day to a day to doctor). My games tend to be a lot of save/loading back and forth since I have a small streak of perfectionism in my blood. Razz
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #262692] Wed, 15 September 2010 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
well some must go off, so god's soldier be he william shakespeare
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #262701] Wed, 15 September 2010 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Raktavijan
I don't allow casualties, ever. It's something I learned from my brother and implemented in my gameplay style. Wounds I can allow as long as they're not really serious (i.e. it would take half a day to a day to doctor). My games tend to be a lot of save/loading back and forth since I have a small streak of perfectionism in my blood. Razz


I used to play like that, but I eventually moved towards accepting basically any non-lethal damage that wasn't the result of 1) a totally boneheaded error on my part :uhh: 2) weird game engine related issue or 3) getting "robbed" by the AI (a. elite walks through a doorway with 3 mercs trained on it and mows them down or b. 50/50 finding the last guy on the map before he finds you first). Even if one of those 3 things happens, as long as it's not a massive injury, I'll usually take it anyway. If a merc has to sit out a battle while recovering or if I have to delay my next operation, that's just tough crap. I always have a medic on the team and usually another on standby (Ira, or anyone with MED over 50).
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #263044] Sun, 19 September 2010 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Riiccia

 
Messages:31
Registered:December 2009
Location: Finland
I do. I just lost my IMP, which is my alter-ego. After almost bursting to tears (he is a HtH expert, decent MRK, quite a good merc), I decided to make another one. Well, I played for one game day, got bored to this robot (high agi+mrk+dex etc.), and decided to make a total random character using calculator's random button. Well, he became a refugee of war, ex-med student, son of a rich man in Africa, now a psychopatic guy who studies explocives when he has time from his job as a car mechanic. He can't shoot, 'cause he did not have to attend mandatory Finnish army. Instead he learned skills from the streets: knifing. He used to play basketball (high dex+throwing), but likes beer nowadays more (low agi). Love it! The new merc sucks, but the game is hundred times more interesting than with the normal killer robots I used to create when I was still new to the game.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #263067] Mon, 20 September 2010 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Luppolo

 
Messages:157
Registered:July 2009
reloading when a merc dies or seriously wounded with guns damage at 175% is more painful than keeping going on
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #263137] Tue, 21 September 2010 00:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:161
Registered:October 2009
Besides, reloading not always saves your butt, since JA2's RNG does not reseed if you repeat exactly the same action after reload.
I pity for every merc that got KIA, but then... I like attaching stories to my campaigns, and a story without losses among main protagonists is just plain boring. So when I have one of my IMPs or hired guns take a dirt nap, it's time for that Boot Hill Ballad to roll on...
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #264963] Sun, 17 October 2010 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D34THROW

 
Messages:17
Registered:October 2010
Location: In Arulco, working for Ki...
I generally reload when ANY merc dies; of course, in my current game, it's 6 IMP mercs that all excel in particular areas...even have my medic as my heavy weapons type.

Now because of the specialization, I don't let them die. If they get heavily wounded, I have them fall back or find the middle of a roof to lay down on, then heal them at the hospital after the battle.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #280892] Fri, 27 May 2011 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aimbot_the_great
Messages:1
Registered:May 2011
Its been about 2 years but I've started a new game of JA 1.13. This time I decided that I would not load a game unless all of my mercs got killed. I feel like this has really added to the intensity of the game because everytime a merc gets shot suddenly you have to respond to a new situation while still dealing with the enemy.

I was playing the Drassen counter attack on expert with 7 mercs. Sniper and LMG on the bathroom roof, my riflemen spread out in the houses covering sectors, my medic (Ira) hanging in the bathrooms. One of my rifleman (Scully) in an east side building gets shot and goes down, not dead but heavily wounded, bad guys swarming outside. Ira and one of my riflemen (Shadow) begin making their way to him. They get into the house Ira gets to work. Just then the back door gets thrown open revealing 7+ baddies. Ira makes a run back outside while Shadow covers her. Shadow gets interrupted as he is running and gets 1-shotted in the head and falls down dead next to Scully. Scully bled out over the next few turns while my IMP and Ira tried to blast their way back inside to get to him.

The game definitely feels so much more intense and gritty when you're blasting your way through enemy lines to get to a downed trooper while you're honestly worried if your teammate will make it before he bleeds to death.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #280974] Fri, 27 May 2011 23:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PasHancock

 
Messages:738
Registered:February 2011
Location: Estonia,Tallinn
I accept Casualties,because i try to feel a war for freedom,there is no war if someone from good guys won't die.I was about to cry when my squad of Ivan,Igor,Iggy,Conrad,IMP and Barry were trapped in sector,i entered a sector(tried to make a breach to Meduna) started killing everyone,enemy backup came,they have surrounded me,had to retreat.Iggy and Igor were shooting from Mortar Gas Shells,so that my squad could leave.Iggy and Igor were killed.Sadly,Ivan had no Gas mask so i didn't knew what to do,if i run to gas,Ivan will lose his energy.Well,he had to run inside it,lost all energy.

My Imp and Conrad left a battlefield with serious wounds.Next sector that they arrived,were filled with enemies.They told me to surrender,which i did.

Next thing they were in jail,where queen came with 2 of her buddies.Joe(i think) killed my IMP Sad and Eliot punched my Conrad.All Squad died ;(

I wonder,what will happen if all mercs in Arulco,A.I.M,IMPs and M.E.R.C will die?Will game be over?

Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #280977] Fri, 27 May 2011 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1568
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
You will be shot for beeing a lousy commander
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #281017] Sat, 28 May 2011 04:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
relnor

 
Messages:61
Registered:April 2011
Location: Philippines, Cebu
i reload if someone dies and stat loss if there is no way to fix them(unless there is STOMP). but i reload on a save game before i got to the fight and try something else. i play until even if they are dying like bugs being half squashed(near death 1hp or close to that) but if someone dies, its reload time.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #281070] Sat, 28 May 2011 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
A problem with allowing casualties can arouse from other mercs refusing to work for you after your team had suffered casualties. I remember that I once had lost Laura on the second day and after that in vain tried to hire a new medic for my team. I think it is related to the days per casualty, such as one per ten days would be acceptable for most mercs. There also are respective settings in MercProfiles.XML, but I am not sure how exactly they work.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #281152] Sat, 28 May 2011 23:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PasHancock

 
Messages:738
Registered:February 2011
Location: Estonia,Tallinn
Im on insane + Ironman right now,i passed queen's defence and conquered all sectors.Time for her palace.All my mercs will be there.There will be many casualties. ;(
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #281209] Sun, 29 May 2011 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
raycrasher

 
Messages:59
Registered:August 2010
Location: Philippines
Also playing insane + ironman. I don't mind losing stats/hp/battles, but I reload when a merc/civilian dies or a quest fails. Also, fleeing from a botched-up assault is surprisingly fun Very Happy
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #281217] Sun, 29 May 2011 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PasHancock

 
Messages:738
Registered:February 2011
Location: Estonia,Tallinn
Currently i have lost: IMP,Maddog and Hamous Sad

Retreated(im not coward,i just didnt wanted any more casualties) since all other mercs were very injured and low in morale.But i killed many black shirts.Ira had 1 hp and i managed to save her and give her reg boosts.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #281294] Sun, 29 May 2011 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yoshi

 
Messages:45
Registered:January 2008
Location: Portugal
I usually play with Ironman on, so casualties are a given in certain situations. I only reload if I loose my IMP, the other mercs being somewhat "expendable".

As for retreat, it's not always a bad thing Razz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_%28military%29
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #281308] Sun, 29 May 2011 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
public1983

 
Messages:127
Registered:February 2006

I have just started to play without enemy casualties on easy difficulty. I remember doing this kind of scenario with an imp only and reloading trial and error. Now I try iron man. Guns are not useless then, but all the other items get their meaning. You start to use solid slugs for leg shots, crowbars for one hit knock outs and dual wielded traquilizer guns, yeah! The game can be solved with only killing the queen. The retreat ai is a bit tricky. That is, where you have to reload sometimes so that it finds the way off the map. By the way it really becomes a humanitarian aid project as most mercs for this job are good medics.

[Updated on: Sun, 29 May 2011 18:18] by Moderator

Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #290870] Tue, 20 September 2011 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Saibot

 
Messages:201
Registered:September 2009
I allow casualties as long as the game is still winnable. Kind of a judgement call, but there's a huge difference between losing your best merc out of 30 while taking city #5 and losing 5 of your 6 mercs before you finish your first city.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #294505] Mon, 05 December 2011 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lucas

 
Messages:312
Registered:June 2006
Location: Londrina, PR, Brazil
I have zero tolerance for casualities.

I always make ample use of quicksaves, specially on Unfinished Business: It took me more than 50 quicksaves to kill every single enemy with my IMP merc, Barry, Spider, Raven, Larry and Igor in the Guard Post at H9, though my IMP and Raven took quite a beating from the sniper b*tch on the rooftop...

Oh yeah, and the two guys hiding inside one of the buildings, they were also a pain to get rid off. Though the spoils of war were more than satisfying: A CAWS shotgun and slugs, 12.000 buck$, Spectra Helmet and Shield, Kevlar Pants, Sun Goggles, Night Vision Goggles, Sniper Scope, springs, duct tape, wire cutters, Tool/Med/1st Aid/Camo kit, Crowbar, 2 regen boosters, 1 energy booster, a G41 rifle loaded with AP ammo and a VAL Sniper Rifle with a clip of AP ammo.

[Updated on: Mon, 05 December 2011 22:05] by Moderator

Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #301150] Tue, 06 March 2012 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kovax

 
Messages:18
Registered:December 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
I generally reload following a battle where I lose a merc, after playing out the battle to its conclusion (there are exceptions, where I feel that the outcome was worth the price). In most games, I'll only reload if a merc dies outright, not if they're pounded to a bloody pulp but still breathing. "Dead isn't dead" in my games, but "wounded is wounded", and I've had key mercs spend some time in Cambria hospital or recovering under the care of a medic in other towns.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #301410] Fri, 09 March 2012 20:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CyberRaptor
Messages:9
Registered:January 2012
Under normal circumstances I load a save. However, sometimes I let a merc die as part of the story. Usually about one per town, and sometimes at a SAM site. It's the cost of waging war. I think it's unrealistic to kill off dozens of elite troops without taking a single casualty.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #305640] Wed, 06 June 2012 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Monkeyfinger
Messages:1
Registered:February 2011
In the early game, no. I don't have the money to spare on hiring replacements whenever, and a lot of my early hires are people I want to level up a bunch and take into the lategame.

As I grab mines and get richer, I start short term hiring a bunch of mid-high priced guys who are good shots but don't give me skills I really really want - guys like reaper, raven, raider, sydney, ice, etc. I use them as expendable fodder to help clear tough areas. They go in first most of the time, and if they die, they die.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #309321] Mon, 20 August 2012 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Saibot

 
Messages:201
Registered:September 2009
Current game I've lost Grunty(went alone to flush out last attacker in Chitzena mine at night, justified), Dmitri(I forget how), and Igor(enemy sniper in an overland map, wounded most of the rest of my team too. Took alot of smoke grenades and "blind" auto bursts to take him out, I figured the battle was fun enough to keep on the record). I save scummed Barry back to life after dieing in Drassen airport defense(he tried to poke enemies from inside the fence without a buddy nearby, I figured no professional would really do that), and I'm sitting on 2 save games right now deciding which to load, before attacking a reclaimed Chitzena SAM with 10 elites, and after Wolf and Barry got shredded with machine gun bursts on the roof of the lower building.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #309555] Mon, 27 August 2012 01:30 Go to previous message
Tank16365
Messages:5
Registered:August 2012
In all honesty, I reload. I'm thinking about RPing a little bit though, no reloads, no file tampering. well maybe a little file tampering.
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