Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » The A.I.M. Library » Do you allow casualties?
Do you allow casualties?[message #29127] Mon, 26 August 2002 20:09 Go to next message
El_slapper

 
Messages:31
Registered:March 2001
Location: Taverny, France
:bunny: peace & love

Title says all : do you reload everytime one merc is dead, or do some of your mercs end up buried in Arulco?

I barley allow deaths, but, in epic & violent combat, I sometimes allow one Merc to have an honourable death.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29128] Mon, 26 August 2002 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tyco

 
Messages:189
Registered:September 2001
Location: Be'er Sheva, Israel
Since I have the option I dont accept casualties, except maybe if its a merc I dislike. Razor, Haywire, Shank, Maddog, Iggy, Ira, Dimitri and Larry to name a few.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29129] Mon, 26 August 2002 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
punkcabbage
Messages:6
Registered:January 2002
Location: Australia
Nup!
I reload every time. I can always do better! Very Happy
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29130] Mon, 26 August 2002 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T.I.M.

 
Messages:19
Registered:February 2002
Ha! Don't allow casulties! When I started playing JA2 I sucked so much I reloaded every time my merc got shot, even if he only lost 1-2 points of health. Course nowadays I will only reload if I'm just testing different tactics, but at the moment I'm trying an Iron Mode style so as not to have to reload, which takes a very long time.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29131] Mon, 26 August 2002 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
J.C Kane
Messages:2
Registered:August 2002
Well it depends who dies. If steroid gets killed -> defenite reload. If Gasket, Dimitri, Ira, Bull, Larry or any other easily replacable merc get their asses blown off, they are casualties of war. I actually shot Gasket myself... I really dislike the forgetfulness thing.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29132] Mon, 26 August 2002 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Justas

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2002
Location: Estonia
In the beginning, i didnt allow almost any casualities. whenever a merc got shot and it did more than 5-10 damage, i reloaded. But now i realized that this way it's no fun at all. Now i allow them to take critical shots, but i don't let them die. Although i do have a tendency of using Miguel as the 'cannon fodder' Wink i let him open doors, go around corners as the first one. if he gets heavily wounded - whoops! :rolleyes:

Since i got many regen boosters, it's quite fun to let even better mercs get wounded. Example:

IMP opens a door in the ground level of Orta. An elite in the back corner shoots with his Rocket Rifle, narrowly misses my IMP and hits Hitman. Blam! and about -40 damage. So, instead of reloading, i shut the door, bandage Hitman and give him a regen boost. And he's back to full health Very Happy Since the windows were shaded, i couldnt see inside, but then i dropped a grenade at the door, the explosion shattered all the windows and Shadow got a clear line-of-sight at the elite and finished him with 2 headshots :luckystrike:
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29133] Mon, 26 August 2002 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sarge49
Messages:5
Registered:July 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
I would have to say the same as J.C. Kane, I hate crappy mercs, and I kill them for fun.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29134] Tue, 27 August 2002 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jamotide

 
Messages:40
Registered:July 2002
Location: Germany
When I started playing JA2 I used to reload everytime I took heavy damage and didnt let anyone die. Since my last game I try to reload more seldom, its just more fun. There are just some mercs that should not die, like my IMP and some other favourites. I only reload now, when they die. In my last game I had like 8 casualties, some good mercs too, like Scully and Numb.
But I gotta try an iron man game too, perhaps on easy difficulty,that should be tough too, cause now I play expert.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29135] Tue, 27 August 2002 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yoda
Messages:9
Registered:July 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Aust...
I try to be strict but too often things do not work out as you planned. You have 10 aps left and it will take 3 to close the door, you spend 7 on a shot and find you have two left and die. Reload.

You tell some mercs in real time to go to the corner of a building and they actually disobey you and go around it. Blam. Dead. Reload.

You want to shoot out a window. Your expert sniper takes careful aim at the stationary target and blam, not only a miss but a hit on one of your mercs standing three squares away who loses 17 points of dex. (This happens a lot to me when I shoot at windows) Reload.

That being said one of my most fun games was with a friend. We started with 3 mercs each and then bought more as we could afford it. The winner of the game was to be the person with the most kills at the end. As we were competing we did not EVER let eachother reload. It was so tense it was unbelievable. We had so many dead that hardly anyone would agree to work for us.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29136] Tue, 27 August 2002 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DR J

 
Messages:37
Registered:April 2002
Location: Amarillo, TX
If I did it the way life is I would have used up AIM, MERC and any other organizations mercs by the time I reached Drassen in my first game. I only reload if IMP or good merc dies or wounded down to dying and no way to bandage/heal because of location, enemy fire, bandages (Yeah, I know, idiot!!!). Course wannabe mercs like Gumpy and Bubba I let get waxed in my first JA2 game, havent looked back since. Wish I would hire Larry again and use him for mine detector.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29137] Tue, 27 August 2002 04:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mave
Messages:6
Registered:August 2002
Location: Classified
i don't allow any casualties.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29138] Tue, 27 August 2002 08:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I/O Error

 
Messages:13
Registered:December 2001
I'm a big honking coward. I only allow my guys to even get SHOT if it causes less than, say, 20 health, and that only on really rare occasions.

I'll sometimes permit the MERC guys to get wasted, but mostly I'm just too frugal with the mercenaries lives to allow that.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29139] Tue, 27 August 2002 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nutter

 
Messages:17
Registered:August 2002
Location: New Zealand
i only ever play with six mercs max on iron mode, so if one merc gets whacked, i reload the whole battle

if one gets shot to shit but remains alive (just) i keep playing, even if he/she starts to permanently lose health

so as long as they're still alive, i don't reload
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29140] Tue, 27 August 2002 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
To me, death should be the ONLY cause of reloading. It's a real challenge to have guys hit severely and you need to run teammates over, fall back, regroup, head for cover, etc etc.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29141] Wed, 28 August 2002 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mave
Messages:6
Registered:August 2002
Location: Classified
Anyway, i don't load the game if a merc's injured. I only load it if someone dies. Even if he has 1 to health i still bandage him and keep going.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29142] Wed, 28 August 2002 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ibo

 
Messages:75
Registered:July 2001
Location: Chicago, IL USA
I try to reload only when I feel cheated.
I play with increased high damage weapons, so I don't experience to much of "hey, I shot that guy in the head 3 times with an AKM, then next turn he pick up his ass, take out a 9mm pistol and shot my merc from the other end of the map and kill him..."
When the Ironman mode come out with JA2 Gold, I will give it a try..
ibo
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29143] Wed, 28 August 2002 03:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HeMan134
Messages:2
Registered:June 2002
Location: uk

Cant stand to see a merc die i have to reload Razz

:rifle:
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29144] Wed, 28 August 2002 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anna
Messages:1
Registered:August 2002
Location: in your closet, in a box,...
Quote:
Originally posted by J.C Kane:
If steroid gets killed -> defenite reload. If Gasket, Dimitri, Ira, Bull, Larry or any other easily replacable merc get their asses blown off, they are casualties of war. I actually shot Gasket myself... I really dislike the forgetfulness thing.
how can you prefer Steroid instead of Gasket??? :confused:
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29145] Wed, 28 August 2002 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shinjuku

 
Messages:10
Registered:May 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by Akodo Deathseeker:
To me, death should be the ONLY cause of reloading. It's a real challenge to have guys hit severely and you need to run teammates over, fall back, regroup, head for cover, etc etc.
pitched battles are great. there's nothing like squeezing off a few shots, behind cover, whilst still bleeding.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29146] Wed, 28 August 2002 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toast
Messages:3
Registered:June 2002
It depends on the game - sometimes, I like to play by semi-Iron Man rules (due to occasional crashes, I'll do quick-saves during RT mode). Otherwise, I'll reload on a critical hit (loss of skill points) or death of a primary merc. But I agree - finding a way to save a badly wounded merc is a huge challenge - especially if you're low on medical supplies. I always keep a couple smoke grenades in reserve for just that purpose.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29147] Thu, 29 August 2002 02:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khaine

 
Messages:65
Registered:July 2001
Location: Bergen, Hordaland, Norway
To me, it's all about whether I'm playing a serious game or not. Lately, it's been more of the latter.
If in a serious game, I will not reload unless something completely ridiculous happens, i.e. Conrad blows Grizzly's head off by accident.
If I'm playing the type of games I usually do, I'll be playing around with different mercs and tactics, with no intention of finishing the game. It's just for the f*ck of it. On these occassions, I will save & reload a lot, as deaths and injuries will lower my amusement level.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29148] Fri, 30 August 2002 05:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Justas

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2002
Location: Estonia
Update: I only reload when someone dies or I run out of regen boosts Wink

When i found out that Howard (was that his name?) in Balime sells regen boosts for $300/each and renews his supplies every now and then, i've piled up lots of them and now it's much more fun to play than it used to be. For everyone who hasn't tried it out yet, i strongly recommend it. I mean, so what if they cost $300 and you lose medikits? After 2-3 game weeks, you should be swimming in money Wink

About reloading when a good merc dies: that's one thing why JA2 is so much different than X-COM. You like your mercs and can't get them back when they die. In X-COM, all the soldiers have faces, stats and names, but they're randomly generated every time. So, if one of them gets brainsucked, you just get -10 points, go back and hire another one for a few hundred bucks. That really makes you wanna go back to JA Smile
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29149] Fri, 30 August 2002 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snake Plissken

 
Messages:38
Registered:December 2001
Here's what I think:

When people first play JA2, they most enjoy saving/loading to prevent any sort of casualties. Over time, some people wean themselves away from it because they find the game is fresh to them that way. Some people just run around knifing/using akimbo pistols though, and I'd be rather impressed if anybody could do that Ironman style in regular unmodded JA2.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29150] Tue, 13 September 2005 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
todanerd

 
Messages:42
Registered:August 2005
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

reload only if my imp is dead. i mean come'on, everybody models the imp as their alter ego. if i'm dead, there would be no fun in continuing the game. right now, bull and meltdown are k.i.a., instead of bringing them back through reloading, i decided to get someone else to fill in their shoes. they will be missed, but the fight must go on. it would make putting that last bullet thru the evil queen's skull much, much, much sweeter!!!
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29151] Tue, 13 September 2005 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Archie

 
Messages:19
Registered:September 2005
Location: Great Britain
I agree with todanerd. There are two moments when I reload. First is when my IMP merc dies. As todanerd says that's my alter ego and I want to make it to the end. The other moment is when something that I feel is blatently unfair happens such as open a door and get hit on full auto before you get a chance to move.

Tixa sees a number of reloads typically as the basement level has those blind corridors where the view doesn't come clear until you are right next to the locked doors. By then of course you're full of bullets!
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29152] Wed, 14 September 2005 06:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dzeller

 
Messages:91
Registered:February 2003
Location: USA
Although I used to reload very often, I now always play ironman, it's REALLY much more fun.

This means, of course, that one time, I had to retreat from Tixa basement because all my mercs were badly wounded + I had no more smoke grenades, so I couldn't dislodge the last defenders without losing at least one of my own mercs.
Well this is fun: these queen soldiers fought bravely and they managed to hold on until I had to retreat. They deserved to win (even if the basement is an easy place to defend).
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29153] Thu, 15 September 2005 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
I only reload on KIAs or stat losses. As several folks have pointed out, saving a merc with his ass in a crack is exhilarating, but I hate to lose people.

-- EMH
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29154] Fri, 16 September 2005 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaveS425

 
Messages:68
Registered:January 2002
Location: Bellevue, WA
KIA, stat losses, and when I want to try different tactics.

Playing out a game with a crippled merc is just less fun.

KIA I treat like a puzzle -- how can I move / shoot differently to save the merc's life? In Urban Chaos, I reloaded my last move in the Claudia sector at least 15 times trying to keep Rude Dog alive, and finally managed it.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29155] Tue, 27 September 2005 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
I do some of that myself, but it can get kind of, well, chickenshit. For example, if a merc takes a serious hit, I can reload the previous turn's save, move someone one square or squeeze off a useless round, and that will change the random number generated for the enemy's shot, which might make him miss altogether.

Trying out different tactics is also a good reason to save. Hey, what really would happen if I charged that LMG firing from the hip? Smile (Often, nothing at all. It's amazing what bad shots those redshirts are some times)

-- Mal
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29156] Mon, 31 October 2005 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Annapolisjohn

 
Messages:118
Registered:September 2003
Location: westminster, Maryland
I do reload when I feel cheated... for example Steroid is shot in door way... Falls and becomes incapacitated... I cant close door or drag him out of it even though he survives the round...

I hope this issue is covered in JA3
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29157] Sat, 19 November 2005 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Critter

 
Messages:14
Registered:October 2004
Location: KY, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Alred 27:
I do reload when I feel cheated...
Same here. If someone dies and I scream out that it was basically a bullshit situation, I'll reload. Otherwise, well hey, it happens, people die (except my IMP merc).

Playing UC a bit ago, Razor and Haywire died on me. As much as I love Haywire and his bBonus to hit on roof (expert) skills, it was a just death in the middle of a huge combat. Again, it happens.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29158] Sat, 19 November 2005 05:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phantom

 
Messages:66
Registered:November 2001
Location: behind you ...
I find the "easiest" (in terms of resisting reloads) way to play Ironman is to have no IMP.
It's even easier when you deliberately recruit a couple of mercenaries who hate each other - one of them's gonna go before long, so it it doesn't hurt so much whether they leave in a body bag, or of their own accord.
Avoid nighttime encounters, except for those with NightOps. Attack dangerous sectors with multiple squads. Don't be ashamed to retreat if everything hits the fan.
And remember to get Merc Insurance!
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29159] Sat, 19 November 2005 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Claymaker
Messages:6
Registered:November 2005
I used to save and reload alot, but as I recently got back into JA2 with 1.13, I don't do that anymore. Actually, because you can just keep cloning your IMPs, I only relaod if my favorite mercs get wacked, and even then only if they get wacked in dumb ways. I've already gotten 2 IMPs I didn't like killed, King David style (put em' on the front line) If razor, haywire, grizzly, or fidel die, I am likely to reload, but I am pretty careful with them.
If I nail some guy in the head from point blank with 3 AP 9mm shots (and he isn't even elite) and then he wastes them, I also reload.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29160] Thu, 12 January 2006 03:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
toverkol

 
Messages:10
Registered:February 2005
Location: holland

usually reload at deaths, though it depends how old my save is, i tend to forget saving every now and then, and if the gap's too large i'll go with the new situation.

I usually do finish the combat in which this happens, to see if the next turn would have 4 more mercs die, get some knowledge of enemy whereabouts, or if i can manage with less or heavily wounded mercs.
I can always redo the whole battle afterwards, to much fun to see if you can make it, and then weigh whether it's been worth it.

In some cases i'll allow hero-sacrifices, like when the only way to win is getting one killed, or at least in a very dangerous position.
Like iwth the Kingpin battle i've posted today, if Barry wouldnt have amde it inside, it's too bad for Barry, i get more money and items than he could ever be of use, so if he gets blown up in the process, i can't bother, i just thank him for setting off the explosives.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29161] Mon, 20 February 2006 07:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BrainDonor

 
Messages:34
Registered:January 2006
Location: Ontario
i don't reload these days, i used to, i find it far more interesting now not to. the only time i reload for a death is if my IMP bites it, or if there's an irreplaceable character ( skill wise ) who gets killed, for example: trevor, ... pretty much just trevor i suppose. I think that as a character he's to valuable to lose. .. except these days i can always create new characters with whatever skills i want, so.. yeah.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29162] Tue, 21 February 2006 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LegacyOfApathy

 
Messages:101
Registered:September 2004

Not if I can avoid it.

Of course sometimes my characters get shot so much that taking a quick nap in the middle of a firefight seems like a good idea, and in a tense battle, my characters might choose to continue fighting rather than bandage themselves. But I don't let them die, or let them loose stat points usually "Got shot in the head and lost 15 wisdom"

Just yesterday, I won Jagged Alliance. I was Really Really bummed out afterwards though, since almost every single person I cared about died...

I had Ivan, Fidel, Beth, Speck, and Ellio thoughout the entire game. (I loved how Ivan refused to speak any language other than Russian). And I hired Mike to help asorb damage while attacking sector one.

I didn't know what to expect when I hired him, but his manner of speech reminded me of the Terminator.


They had the most elite equipment I could think of. Spectra armor- 75% protection. Gas mask, Extended ear, modified M16 rifles, 10-20 Grenades each. The list goes on.

I'll be gosh darned if it didn't take me at least 2-3 hours in real life time to make it to Santino's hideout. That island turned out to be one of the most heavily defended fortresses I've ever had to invade. It seemed that the main building spawned out 2-4 soldiers each turn.

And for the first time in Jagged Alliance, Grenades seemed to have little effect on enemies.

***

Long story shot. We meet Santino, he blows up. Mike runs out of the side door and saves himself. Ellio squeezes out though a hole in the wall after failing to save the sapling. Ivan and Beth were pinned down inside the building with enemy gun fire. Fidel shoved Speck out of the way to cross the bridges first, and Speck got shot to death trying to excape.

Well, if I didn't get speck out of the way, they would have both died -.-


Yep, out of everyone I brought with me. Only Ellio, Mike, and Fidel lived. Since they hid and waited it out until the day was over.

Does anyone else think that Brenda might be evil? She certainly gives off bad vibes to me...
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29163] Mon, 27 February 2006 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
North

 
Messages:26
Registered:September 2003
Location: NC
I don't allow casualties at all. Heck, I may even reload when one of my mercs is hit for more than 10 dmg. I save and load a lot =).
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29164] Sat, 11 March 2006 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kato

 
Messages:12
Registered:December 2005
Location: Sweden
I ALWAYS allow casualties. Ofcourse it is hard to accept when your IMP dies, but it makes out so much more realistic than reloading it.
I only save every gameweek or so, because i am really worried of possible crashes. Jagged Alliance tends to crash from time to time, as everyone knows,a nd it would be horrible to get a crash late in the game if you havnt saved before =)
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29165] Sun, 12 March 2006 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ma Rung

 
Messages:19
Registered:March 2006
Location: Australia mate, on top no...
Quote:
Originally posted by J.C Kane:
Well it depends who dies. If steroid gets killed -> defenite reload. If Gasket, Dimitri, Ira, Bull, Larry or any other easily replacable merc get their asses blown off, they are casualties of war. I actually shot Gasket myself... I really dislike the forgetfulness thing.
Bwahahahahahaha, poor old gasket, probably doesn't even remember. For me I always had him as a mechanic unless I had russians on the team, then of course he had to go. Thats a good one.....top that racist son of a *beeeeeeep*

In the past when I was more unaware of merc personalities etc I would have lengthy contracts to cut down on cost etc. You do this and suddenly steriod dont like Ivan.....I'd take out insurance on steriod and send him into battle..... Very Happy

*EDIT* Aside from that I have never allowed merc deaths as I put a lot into training them up etc. They would get hit and be unconcious but never if they lost wisdom or dexterity etc.
Re: Do you allow casualties?[message #29166] Thu, 16 March 2006 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
public1983

 
Messages:127
Registered:February 2006

I do allow casualties from the day I found this thread. It rocks like hell! Very Happy I still use different savegames, one for every kind of bug in the game. So I load at real bugs only.

Allowing mercs to die makes the game a real challenge. I already get in trouble on novice level. You need to manage risk. Of course mercs die for odd reasons, but this is absolutely realistic. It is realistic to run away in a risky situation, although it collides with the superficial heroism in the game.

Learning comes with gratification AND punishment.
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