Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab » backgrounds overhaul planned (there is the idea of overhauling the backgrounds)
| backgrounds overhaul planned[message #365685]
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Mon, 21 August 2023 20:51 
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| Kitty |
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Messages:467
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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backgrounds
let's start with some objectives to see if we all can get on the same page
- in general, keep them shorter, less tags per background (like it was back in 7609) - keep it simple
- goes hand in hand with the above: avoid uber-backgrounds or at least add the most nasty penalties to them as well
- add tags needed for features accordingly (i.e. doctors should get disease-related tags, someone who's suppossed to be a hacker should get hacking-tag, etc, pp)
- don't hand out AP- and stat-bonus that easy and whitespread as is
- keep most of the bg-names, at least for mercs (i.e. It should stay Wrestler, etc) - reasoning: some consistency should be kept
- especialy for IMP-backgrounds, think of a way to keep the humour but still provide more clear information (i.e. don't name a split-off rebelgroup "Arulcan Rebel", that's misleading, etc)
- use all the unused tags, like give Flo the animal-lover-tag, she's gonna marry to a farm, so she'll need it 😇
and probably more, that's for starters
if there is no major outcry against those objectives, I could start with making a first attempt and post it for discussion
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| Re: backgrounds overhaul planned[message #365686 is a reply to message #365685]
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Tue, 22 August 2023 03:56 
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 anv |
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Messages:258
Registered:March 2013 |
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Hey, I was messing around with snitches lately and also taking a look at their backgrounds, so I have some general thoughts.
I'd say generally backgrounds serve multiple purposes:
- allow customization beyond what is normally possible, both by modders (non-IMPs) and players (IMP creation)
- add flavour to both IMPs and non-IMPs - tags reflecting mercs traits, name, description
- allow additional balancing beyound current stat system
- add new mechanics without hardcoding them
Customization
- IMP cannot customize approaches or sleep otherwise, so backgrounds are the only way to do this
- dislikes between backgrounds can also introduce "soft" dislike system between IMPs and non-IMPs
- some ultraspecific bonuses like ambushes, tracking, barter, spotter, SAM, etc, can differentiate between mercs that otherwise have similar traits and stats, giving them more specialization and making selection of a specific one more meaningful (even if it might more of an illusion), even AP bonuses (I like the concept of swim AP mod even if swimming is underutilized in vanilla maps)
Flavour
- most of numerical tags set to low values can be considered to be basically cosmetic
- also how often players really use insurance feature?
- flavour tags can bloat backgrounds quickly if used as a standard instead of just flavour, such as trying to figure out small AP bonuses of a specific background in every biome
Balancing
- positive and negative tags make characters stronger or weaker
- there is some redundancy between stat bonuses and predefined stats, outcome of stat and bonus is a single effectiveness variable for final calculations
New mechanics
- disease tags, hacker, drug use, etc. - either cannot be set to specific values otherwise or introduce completely new behaviours (like Larry's drug shenanigans that were hardcoded in vanilla) - these tags make specific characters characters
Additional problems that I found:
- required sleep is already configured per char in MercProfiles.xml so <sleep> is redundant for non-IMPs
- similar problem with with approach factors, although to a lesser extent due to bonus formula (sleep is literally flat mod)
For this solution could be:
- remove these tags from non-IMP backgrounds - no redundant data, no misleading info to reads, less tags per BG
- keep them in IMP backgrounds, but remove them from MercProfiles (so each mercs has equal stats before applying BG effects) - more tags in BG, but all info fully exposed, also it would be consistent with IMPs
- keep it mixed as is - so you get "some" info, like "X likes to sleep a lot", but since most of stats are hidden, it's not even comparable between multiple mercs
- some background descriptions are written as "You are", some as "He/She is", I thought at first selectables are written from "You" viewpoint which makes sense because IMP is a player character, but it's not always a rule
My advice:
In terms of background pool and naming, my approach would be:
- selectable IMP backgrounds should be more generic, because they have to cover a wider selection of cases
- non-selectable unique backgrounds for mercs could be more specific. Choosing non-IMP background is not an informed decision on player's part, for the most part you get what you hire based on limited information from AIM/MERC bio and deal with it, so even flavour tags could have more leeway .
- for naming convention for non-IMPs I'd specifically avoid background names that are just combos of X/Y/Z, instead one moniker specific to that merc could be found. This is also another opportunity to add some personality and humour
- I'd avoid using backgrounds for finer balancing of non-IMPs such as "X is too expensive, let's give him demo bonus", having over and underpriced mercs is a major gameplay element which already has to be played around due to multiple other systems like dislikes, random KIAs. Not sure if that's even a problem now.
- I wouldn't be too afraid of BGs being "too strong" or "too weak" as long as they don't stack multiple unrelated bonuses, it's good if the are both positives and negatives, but trying to weigh them to a zero sum should be less important than making tags fit thematically, as for non-IMPs, again, not really informed decision on player's part so balancing is not as important
- for non-IMPs I'd avoid main stat bonuses, they already have predefined stats so adding them to backgrounds is kinda redundant and final result is close to a flat bonus, might be more justfied for IMPs
- I'd also avoid trimming things for the sake of trimming. If the issue with variety of available IMP backgrounds is finding a specific one during char creation, maybe sorting could be improved so similar backgrounds are close and finer points between them can be compared without multiple page changes? Not sure what could be a main axis for sorting, military to civilian, legal to criminal, good guy to bad guy? Now it's kinda sorted on the early pages and falls apart later. Either way, trimming tags from inside the backgrounds should help both with readability and redundancy the most. At the end of the day for IMPs background is an outlet of expression, too much variety shouldn't be an issue, not enough will be.
- for mechanical approach to overhaul I'd start by establishing reasonable limits. How many tags at most should each background have? 5? 8? Max 2 AP tags? Max 2 tags of each type?
In that spirit for specific snitches I'd propose:
Gary:
Roachburn On A Budget
Budget Roachburn
Though Gary hasn't quite lived up to the Roachburn reputation yet, he's certainly a chip off the old block with his loose tongue. With a sibling like that, is it any wonder Larry hits the bottle so hard?
"Military Brat/Snitch/Bomber" -> Less combos and makes fun of the whole Roachburn legacy thing. Incorporate previous Larry joke. Also, all the bombing stuff kinda came out of nowhere, he had 14 in explosives in DG, was that originally changed for balancing reasons?
Leon:
Loose-lipped Legend
Loose Lips
A veteran from a bygone era, unshaken by the trials of battle. Leon's tales of valor are as plentiful as his indiscretions, a living testament to a mercenary life lived on his own terms.
"Veteran Mercenary/Snitch" -> "Lose-lipped Legend", "Loose-lipped" covers "Snitch", "Legend" covers "Veteran", according to his and Gary's bio it's his actual moniker in the industry so it works. Current bonuses and penalties mostly make sense if too numerous.
Bud:
Professional Bootlicker
Bootlicker
An expert in chain-of-command navigation, Bud's loyalty to authority is unwavering. With an innate sense of power dynamics, he navigates hierarchical structures with ease, always securing a position near the top.
"Lawyer/Snitch" -> "Professional Bootlicker", there wasn't really any indication he was an actual lawyer in bio or lines + there's already selectable "Lawyer". "Defender of the big guy" and "fighting for freedom of corporate logos" most likely relates to him working as a mercenary for a specific type of organizations as sorta confirmed in the alumni entry. Background could have friendly approach bonus and other approach penalties (especially direct) + maybe hearing and admin bonus.
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| Re: backgrounds overhaul planned[message #365706 is a reply to message #365686]
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Fri, 01 September 2023 15:56
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| Bullpup |
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Messages:42
Registered:December 2020 |
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When will the the backgrounds be released? On one side, I love backgrounds, I like the stats, both the positive and negative. What sucks about it is that they are super unbalanced, some are trash tier while others are strong and gameplay changing. In my opinion, I love the uber backgrounds, I dont think they should be nerfed, instead I would like all the weak backgrounds be buffed.
Simplifing the backgrounds... I really like the complexity, I hope you guys dont overdo it.
Also another tip, some backgrounds are aimed at disease/food playthrough and when player doesnt turn on diseases and food, they are too weak relative to others. I think all backgrounds should have both classis stats and also hardcore survival disease/food stats. That way if player plays with disease/food ON or OFF, they will all stay balanced relative to each other.
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Corporal
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| Re: backgrounds overhaul planned[message #365708 is a reply to message #365706]
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Fri, 01 September 2023 18:26
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| Kitty |
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Messages:467
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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Bullpup wrote on Fri, 01 September 2023 15:56When will the the backgrounds be released? On one side, I love backgrounds, I like the stats, both the positive and negative. What sucks about it is that they are super unbalanced, some are trash tier while others are strong and gameplay changing. In my opinion, I love the uber backgrounds, I dont think they should be nerfed, instead I would like all the weak backgrounds be buffed.
Simplifing the backgrounds... I really like the complexity, I hope you guys dont overdo it.
Also another tip, some backgrounds are aimed at disease/food playthrough and when player doesnt turn on diseases and food, they are too weak relative to others. I think all backgrounds should have both classis stats and also hardcore survival disease/food stats. That way if player plays with disease/food ON or OFF, they will all stay balanced relative to each other.
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It will take a good while. Currently it's back to a part of backgrounds code, trying to re-activate a non-functional code about the restriction to backgrounds for character, disability, skill (skills are a tough nut)
(i.e. if we choose "deaf" as disability, don't show backgrounds that contain bonus to hearing, etc. Stuff like that, things that we safely can assume to exclude each other)
once that is done, I plan to do some examples and post them here to get some more feedback
backgrounds atm, there are no backgrounds specifically aimed for a feature. the imp-backgrounds are mostly copies of what the hireable mercs do have. mind to give an example? I may get a better idea what you're refering to whith one.
[Updated on: Fri, 01 September 2023 18:40]
How to get: latest 1.13, 7609 and more | 7609 SCI (eng) | Compiling+SVN
I need more details. (Didi Hallervorden) Report message to a moderator
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