Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » Favourite Mercs & NPCs » Most underrated merc?
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262722] Thu, 16 September 2010 00:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1542
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
it's called "chased by the enemy"
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262764] Thu, 16 September 2010 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:676
Registered:September 2010
Loucipher
That's called "leap-frogging", not "running for cover".


Never heard that before, I don't even have a clue how to translate it.

@ Gorro der Gr
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262766] Thu, 16 September 2010 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
Buns
Loucipher
That's called "leap-frogging", not "running for cover".


Never heard that before, I don't even have a clue how to translate it.


where are you from - your army is still using muskets? :devilaugh: looky-looky

edith: yeah mr. k this wiki-article is horrible, but they admit it

[Updated on: Thu, 16 September 2010 14:35] by Moderator

Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262775] Thu, 16 September 2010 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:676
Registered:September 2010
Taking a look at the left bar (links to other language wikis) of this wiki article it seems only the US Army bothered to give such basic fire and movement tactics a fancy term of its own - actually two, reading the comments. I still have no idea what this word possibly could mean.
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262777] Thu, 16 September 2010 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3809
Registered:July 2009
The name is probably derived from a children's game so a literal translation will very likely yield varying results, however, I'm sure you have an appropriate term for it.


Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262778] Thu, 16 September 2010 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
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Registered:December 2008
Location: B
Buns
Taking a look at the left bar (links to other language wikis) of this wiki article it seems only the US Army bothered to give such basic fire and movement tactics a fancy term of its own - actually two, reading the comments. I still have no idea what this word possibly could mean.


it is quite new - remember still in ww I the full frontal assault was standard - nowadays it sounds totally stupid but then everybody did it - when it was introduced - afaik by (german) sto
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262820] Fri, 17 September 2010 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mgl

 
Messages:254
Registered:December 2007
Location: France
Buns
Taking a look at the left bar (links to other language wikis) of this wiki article it seems only the US Army bothered to give such basic fire and movement tactics a fancy term of its own.

We name them too in France. The names emphasize the fact that the moving team moves past the support team or not:

- When the moving team moves past the support team, reaches its position ans switch roles, the translation is "parrot progression". I think it is a reference to the footsteps left by birds on the ground.

- When the moving team reaches the other team and doesn't move farther, it's called "drawer progression". I don't know if it's a rule or not in this case, but the team which advances first to unknown territory seems to be always the same, like a team of scouts. And the other team seems to be most of the time of different nature, like snipers or a vehicle.

From the pictures on the wikipedia site, "leapfrogging" seems to be what we call the "drawer progression" in France.

Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262851] Fri, 17 September 2010 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:676
Registered:September 2010
Logisteric
... as air-land-battle was originally and still is in german army manuals called 'Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen' (and this is a short one)


"Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen" (= combat of combined arms) means a unit is able to use all weaponary types of its arm. A unit with this ability would be able to act independently.

This is not new. In the 18th Century for example a unit that was able to use infantry, artillery and cavalry would have been able to fight with combined arms without having to rely on other units. At this point only the entire army was able to do so. During the Napoleonic Wars this was scaled down to the corps. This was the major innovation of those wars. The Prussian army already operated with something that can be considered a forerunner of the later "Kampfgruppen" by temporary attaching light cavalry and additional heavy artillery to infantry brigades.

In WW II this was further scaled down to division level, and temporary "Kampfgruppen" able to fight with "verbundenen Waffen" became the rule. Today you would usually have brigades being able to fight that way, for example a "tank brigade" with two BNs of tanks and one of APC infantry, plus a platoon with mobile artillery. In modern small scale combat this might even be further reduced.

This has nothing to do with air-land-battles because an army formation cannot have any planes. It might be supported by air force units; these do not become part of this "Kampfgruppe" but remain a supporting second unit.
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262853] Fri, 17 September 2010 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
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Location: B
nope, it means to have stukas (flying artillery) handy and an luftwaffe officer on the ground (close to the panzerspitzen to direct the bombing) on a regimental level
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262858] Fri, 17 September 2010 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
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Location: Broadwurschd-City
It means both
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262872] Fri, 17 September 2010 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:676
Registered:September 2010
No, it doesn't, sorry guys.

Fighting the "Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen" means being able to use all required weaponary system by yourself. Using Stukas as flying artillery was done because the units in question were lacking artillery themselves (most artillery in the days of Blitzkrieg was horsedrawn and that way not able to keep up with the tanks). Stukas and similar ground support planes in WW II were by far not as effective as proper artillery, leave alone modern aircraft in the same situation. Nevertheless a Stuka bomb was better than nothing and waiting for the artillery to show up was no option at all.
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262873] Fri, 17 September 2010 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1542
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Right the lacked artillery and THATSWY made that concept.

Btw a certain Rudel took out an entire Russian tankdivision, several airplanes and ships with his lousy StuKa. Very unefective in deed.

wikipedia
Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed; including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship (the Marat), 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262876] Fri, 17 September 2010 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
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Registered:December 2008
Location: B
Buns
No, it doesn't, sorry guys.

Fighting the "Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen" means being able to use all required weaponary system by yourself.


that's why there was luftwaffe personnel incorporated into rommel's and guderian's divisions (to mark targets and give advice to pilots) - that was later done with next to any frontline unit.

Buns
Using Stukas as flying artillery was done because the units in question were lacking artillery themselves (most artillery in the days of Blitzkrieg was horsedrawn and that way not able to keep up with the tanks).


the stuka was used for two reasons 1. flying artillery, 2. after wever's death the luftwaffe scrapped the idea of heavy bombers (for personnel and material reasons) and concentrated on j
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #262931] Sat, 18 September 2010 00:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:161
Registered:October 2009
Oh my... an isolated remark on a name of a tactical maneuver sparked an entire discussion on World War II Smile Watch out, guys... it's my favourite topic, so don't tempt me Very Happy
Anyway, guys, Buns is right. "Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen" is simply a Combined Arms doctrine. Even Wikipedia has it right. All you talk about regarding cooperation between land forces and CAS units are just examples of how this doctrine was used in battle.
On a general note: German Army was at the forefront of military science at the time (we're talking inter-war and WWII times), so they eagerly tested many concepts of using their fighting units. The Spanish campaign alone brought Wehrmacht forward by quite a few years - nearly all "blitzkrieg" tactics were field-tested there. It was there that the famous "88s" got used against tanks for the first time. The Stuka was also tested there. Sadly, terror raids against cities - somebody mentioned Guernica - also caught the testing train (prior to Guernica, no city was substantially damaged by airplane bombardment). When we look at the history of how WWII was fought, we have to admit that many techniques, tactics, doctrines and ways of conducting combat operations were invented by Germans. The "leap-frogging" tactic, though only later named as such in the US Army, was also intensively taught by German military instructors.
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #325793] Fri, 27 September 2013 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dzidek1983

 
Messages:88
Registered:June 2009
whoa this topic is long dead but ill post anyway Razz

for me most underrated is Thor
- he is the BEST medic, with his high wisdom (and in 1.13 he has a paramedic trait) he is all you will ever need
- has the best physical stats of any medic you will face... (ok Danny has more Agility but thats it)
- has HtH so he will als earn you money on the San mona ring if you want
- 97 Wisdom he shares with thor means he will outlearn any medic out there
- has steathly trait which works great with his above average physical stats
- he is realtively cheap
- with high lidership he can talk to people or train milita or mercs
- mechanical stat allows him to fix a jammed weapon easily

and the 2nd underrated merc i think is his buddy Trevor, everyone says how Trevor is great but no one uses him cos of the money he wants

the truth is when i took IMP + Thor + Trevor they had marks over 90 in the second town
they are a 3 man band, a small packade with the best you can get for your bucks
IMP can be whatever you desire... i usually make him a sniper with scout and athletics
Thor and Trevor is a storm troopers with an assault rifles

with those guys the 2nd squad consists of free/low cost people like Gumpy, Hamous, etc. that bring humor and backpacks to the fighting grounds
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #331203] Tue, 11 March 2014 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SubzeroWolfman

 
Messages:10
Registered:March 2014
Location: Vermingen, Germland
Ira is free, and you can't beat the name ("If you stay, Deirdranna's soldiers, if you stay, you'll never ever beat the IRA!").

Razor and Haywire combo neatly. Throw in Fidel, and watch them put the fun in functional massacre.
Bringe Schaufel, nuff said.

I'd mention Grunty, Steroid, Bull, Igor, too ... if they were underrated in the first place. I mean, seriously, whosoever underestimated them, ever? Everybody knows they're funky.

Hitman is a bit underpriced, too. He never complains about anything. He does his job, no questions asked. That's what hitmen do, Ace. Smile
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #343266 is a reply to message #331203] Thu, 19 November 2015 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vinniec

 
Messages:17
Registered:November 2015
For me best underrated merc (in 1.13) is Ears, whit his skills scouting, radio operator (and relatively snitch) he enhances every team where is put. Also his background (surveillance expert) and character (malicious) is great.



My presence is sporadic due problem with my connection. I am here approximately 1 day a week.
Re: Most underrated merc?[message #344094 is a reply to message #343266] Thu, 11 February 2016 23:56 Go to previous message
Stanley Freeman

 
Messages:7
Registered:February 2016
Location: Holland
"I think we misunderestimated" - wait.... wrong game forum. ;)



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