Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » Favourite Mercs & NPCs » To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.
| To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #45591]
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Mon, 24 July 2006 21:57 
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 VUNNCKM |
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Messages:32
Registered:July 2006 |
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I've seen many discriminating the cheats in many games, but why do that happen?
What could be considered "cheating"?
Using Proedit?
I've used to play JA2 a lot and every time i've finished a game, I would open the Proedit and change the mercs stats & salary so then my new game would start as my last game finished.
I don't see this as cheating.
What about saving & loading ?
This could be considered cheating, as if i've had a "time machine" and every time something bad happened i would just "go back in time" and prevent it from happening.
I have no problem being a "cheater" because if the game loses it's fun i would probably stop playing it.
What about you?
Are you a cheater or not?
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #45593]
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Wed, 26 July 2006 01:16 
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| LegacyOfApathy |
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Messages:101
Registered:September 2004 |
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Ahhh, that question is as old as time itself.
Well, I have transgressed. I have used my intimate knoledge of temporary files to aid my characters in their beginning.
In sectors A9, A10, or H7. Depending on what I am playing. I like to leave a small cache of armor, gun attachments, and medical and repair kits. About enough for 6 people.
Those few things turn the entire balance of the war against Dedrianna's clones and\or the North Vietnam Army.
I"'ve used to play JA2 a lot and every time i've finished a game, I would open the Proedit and change the mercs stats & salary so then my new game would start as my last game finished."
I know that feeling all too well. But, I belive that the true mark of a good hero is being able to adapt quickly and learn quickly.
Kitty Kat Kat (my IMP) may wind up with a bunch of 99's (and Dr.Q a few 100's) by the end of a campaign. And I've done this on no less than three occasions.
Still, it FEELs a lot better to me to have them start out at level one and work their way up.
I save obsessively compulsively. I do tend to reload when something bad happens... And who wouldn't want to go back in time and undo their mistakes?
... Does this exclude me from the JA2 Vetaran's Club X.X
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Sergeant
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #160561]
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Fri, 05 October 2007 05:36
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| cdunigan |
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Messages:132
Registered:September 2007
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA |
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Smertreplying on a bit old thread eh?
Why not? It's still an interesting question. I'd like to weigh in myself on the subject.
I never cheat ... at first. Once, my teenage son loaded some hacks on a game we both were playing, and when I went to play and got some super powers I shouldn't have had, I got so angry, I took away his computer privileges for a week. I want to struggle and figure it out slowly on my own. If he cheats for a power trip, that's up to him. Just don't mess up my experience to do it.
But, inevitably, there are two realities that destroy that ideal. One is time. I don't know about anyone else, but I never seem to have enough of it. In some games, I can't make enough progress to make the game worthwhile in the time I have to play it. The other is kind of the reverse. In some games, I've mastered the game quickly, but believe there's enough potential that changing it some could prolong my enjoyment of it.
That's when the cheats come in. They make the game worthwhile again. No, wait, there's another, rarer third case. Occasionally, I believe that the way a game has implemented something is so completely unrealistic, or contrary to the spirit of the game, or makes gameplay ridiculously difficult, or some other heinous crime that I will use cheats to bring it in line with what I expect/require. But mostly it's just to deal with changing the game I've mastered, or making the game possible in the limited time I have available. I didn't cheat at all in JA2 for years - the game was just that good, so I didn't need to. There's only one game, game series, actually, that I never cheat in, and that's Civilization. I tried it once, in Civ I, and I hated it. I've never been tempted to try again.
The ease of "cheats" or more appropriately, "mods" and "options," in JA2 1.13 is a huge part of what makes it so valuable. If I want to try a particular style of play that the vanilla game doesn't really allow, with a few tweaks, I can. Is it cheating to improve your starting IMP so you can try a solo game? The game is clearly not intended to be played with one merc, so trying to do so is much more challenging than the designers originally intended. If I choose to try a greater challenge that only a cheat would make possible, as improving a solo IMP merc would be, how can I really call that cheating?
I say, go ahead and "cheat" if it makes your experience better. If you don't care about realism, give yourself unlimited money, and give your mercs superhuman skills and top notch equipment. Unless you're playing on the Insane difficulty level, it's probably one of the best ways to teach yourself not to do it - when you see how much it can ruin your experience of the game.
It is still just a game, after all.
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Sergeant
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #160584]
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Fri, 05 October 2007 08:32
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| Muerte |
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Messages:70
Registered:September 2007
Location: West USA |
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-CHAZZ-the bigger the challenge - the bigger the satisfaction after completing that challenge.
cheap challenges reap cheap satisfactions.
We don't cheat the game itself, we actually cheat ourselves . . . Cheat and having fun doing it? Go fo it! Cheat and feel 'cheap'? Dont do it.
Very well stated, CHAZZ. That sums up my feelings nicely.
JAPHThere's only one game, game series, actually, that I never cheat in, and that's Civilization. I tried it once, in Civ I, and I hated it. I've never been tempted to try again.
Back in the days of CIV I, for a while, I would auto-reload if a turn didn't go just the way I envisioned to go. Nowadays though, I never reload. I won't even reload a CIV game if I make a butterfingers mistake, like moving a unit where I didn't mean to, or accidentally hitting 'End Turn' or whatever. I just think of those things in the context of the game as 'miscommunication of orders' or something.
With the JA2 v1.13 mod, I've been experimenting with the IMP point system and equipment loadout, trying to find a balance that suits me, and that seems reasonable and realistic in my mind. But, I'm starting to slip back toward just going Vanilla with that too. I never use in-game cheats (in any game), and I hate, hate, hate, to reload a game. The only time I'll do it is when my IMP buys the farm, and even then, 90% of the time, I just start a new game instead, determined not to get killed 'this time.' Hence, I'm currently playing on experienced. I doubt I'll ever play on INSANE.
Cheating just ruins the fun of the game for me. If a game has some aspect that is so difficult/annoying/silly or whatever that I feel compelled to cheat to overcome or avoid it, I usually just get soured and lose interest in the game, it's just my nature.
Likewise, any game that is so difficult for me to play that I have to reload often, I don't enjoy, and lose interest. JA2 Wildfire would be an example of this - it's just too hardcore for me.
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Corporal
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #161120]
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Tue, 09 October 2007 20:01
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| JA fan |
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Messages:187
Registered:March 2007 |
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Well I used to cheat on DG just to don't run out of money.These were very short missions with a limited cash,so after a while,your starting mercs become a little expensive to maintain.And I did the cheat to hire the mercs I wanted too. :naughty:
I tended to cheat to do a "revenge" on my old console games.Some games I've never managed to finish,so when I got an emulator,I was with less time than before,so I decided to finish the most possible number of games to compensate this lack of time.
On that way,I cheated on most games,although on AoE,I don't know why(maybe cause I found the Bid Daddy a real ruining cheat),I liked to play the "tough way"(save/loading of course). :wrysmiley:
On the contrary to the previous post,I cheated on Civ1 and liked it,cause you have a limited period to make things(2100 AD),so I went on war with all the other civs and later on spent my time building irrigation,railroads and new cities until completing the map and also doing some sabotages to "maintain the peace" and earn some peace points.It's good to be powerful when you're controlling the world,don't you think? :diabolical:
Then came JA2.It was like a redemption!!!!! I realised that if I would control some mines permanently,it was a matter of time to become rich.Besides that,you can sell your stuff to dealers that are better than that damn drunken Irish of DG.Unfortunately,some DG mercs were more costly now and the plan to build a super team had to be put aside(without using cheats :whistle: ).
ATM I'm not cheating,but this doesn't mean I'll not cheat anymore.I'm still planning on making the money cheat and play Ja2 and UB on Expert.That's a good challenge.
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Staff Sergeant
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #162764]
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Fri, 26 October 2007 12:08
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| Edvardo |
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Messages:32
Registered:July 2007
Location: Stockholm |
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As I played it only once
I re-loaded if they died,
Except of that medica-boy
I've let him die (sobs),
Otherwise..
It's as a player wishes
I'm more for modding though
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #178230]
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Fri, 14 March 2008 10:16
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| McGraw |
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Messages:4
Registered:July 2004 |
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I tend to agree with JAPH. I don't know how many runs I made through JA2 with no mods or even the knowledge of how to cheat, but they were certainly very enjoyable. But then I stopped replaying it. Then 1.13 came out with all these options, and I found out about ctrl-GABBI. I try not to use that level of cheat, but I've been tweaking the .ini to greater enjoy different aspects of the game.
For example I played my first Insane game over the past month. I've always loved fighting with the militia against enemies, and made it so I could train dark blue shirts. Well I had sooooo many really fun fights, and in insane if they were light blue shirts it would've been too frustrating, and I probably would've cheated with killing them more. So in a way a cheat removed a cheat for me.
As far as save-reload, I've always had a problem with that no matter the game. I really try to limit it but I have a real bug about efficiency and seeing how adeptly my team/group can win a battle in a game. On experienced or expert I don't use it much, maybe every five-ten turns. On insane though I did and it was actually kind of fun seeing which tactics would allow me to actually live through a fight lol.
But all in all, mods for an old treasured game usually prolong the playtime and enjoyment. I knew I could beat JA2 any which way before, but with the new settings to play with it's like a whole new game.
The other similar game to this is Baldur's Gate 2 and it's Shadowkeeper, which let you cheat in items and such. Cheating in a Bag of Holding at the very start for example made the inventory chore part of the game much more tolerable. Giving myself a Throne of Bhaal end-weapon at level one made me enjoy more solo runs through (obviously a lot easier, but still fun in a different way). So, cheating isn't always bad, sometimes it's a fresh breath of life.
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Civilian
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #178492]
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Wed, 19 March 2008 00:05
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| JA fan |
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Messages:187
Registered:March 2007 |
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Well,there's another reason for me to cheat that I didn't mention on the previous post.
It's a motto:
"If the computer/AI cheats,I can cheat better & kick the sucker comp./AI ass!!!!!!!" :devilaugh:
I hate when it thinks it can cheat without punishment. :computer2:
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Staff Sergeant
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #213396]
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Fri, 17 April 2009 09:59
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| usrbid |
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Messages:1506
Registered:December 2008 |
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@Kaerar: I have been thinking about using ALT + E but decided against it.
For example at night, with no night vision gear, you may walk past an enemy while they walk into your side where your vision doesn't go out that far. The result is the enemy sees you before you see them, and you get shot, a lot.
Another phenomenon is that if both of you have the same vision range at night and an enemy runs into your vision range, you get an interrupt. Now you are in a situation where if you don't kill the guy with your next *action*, he might interrupt you before you get to spend all your APs, and you get shot, a lot.
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #213781]
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Tue, 21 April 2009 18:01
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| cougar |
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Messages:254
Registered:March 2000 |
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Disabling it permanently is just idiotic, let people play the game the way they want to. If you don't want to cheat then avoid it, but don't prevent others from use the cheat to play any way they want. I can see two reasons for disabling the cheats (in release versions):
1. The one who requests it know that he/she will cheat if it is there.
2. The one who requests it wants to control how other people play their game.
Neither is a valid reason to do it. As for people who feel superior for not cheating, well that's just sad.
I bet everyone here wants the AI better/more realistic but if it "cheats" just figure out a way to beat it. Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: To be a cheater or not to be a cheater, that's the question.[message #215718]
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Thu, 07 May 2009 10:59
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| RussianGun |
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Messages:22
Registered:May 2009
Location: Glendale Arizona |
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As a noob, I must admit. I have been known to use Alt+D and Alt+T from time to time...
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Private 1st Class
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