Home » OTHER STRATEGY » JA3 Wish List » Roll the credits, Barbie!
Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47816] Mon, 27 March 2000 07:10 Go to next message
Snake

 
Messages:47
Registered:February 2000
Location: PA, USA
After taking a breather from JA2 for a little while, I've come back full force and with two new ideas for JA3. Frankly, I would have loved to see them in UB, but it's a little late for that:

1) Multiple Endings
It would be nice to have more than one defined ending for the game. Although JA2 has great replay value with the slew of mercs and tactical situations, it always geared to the same final showdown with the same results. Having game events impact the possible ending would be fabulous. Even something as simple as an end-game rating of your overall performance would be supersweet. For those that know Metal Gear Solid, at the nd of the game you were given a codename based on your performance. It also spewed out a whack o stats you never actively followed during the game such as rounds fired, time elapsed, hit ratio etc. JA2 does this in the profiles, but Id love to see a quick summation of total carnage! http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/smile.gif Oh, and cinematic multiple endings.

2) This is the one I desperately want to see in all my favorite character-driven games. The paper doll inventory system. For those that don't know, it's alot like the old paper cut-out dolls where you would put different items on the paper doll in whatever fashion you wanted. The earliest game I remember playing that used it is Ultima VII: Serpent Isle. More recently, Rage of Mages 2 (god awful game, but the inventory rocked). Instead of 'slots', when you equipped a weapon, the item was visually placed in a static representation of your full-body merc's hands. Don a helmet and it shows up on your paper doll. It just looks so damn cool, and really allows you to see what they have on them in a split second.
I'd pay SirTech to include this feature...

Hopefully these are new or undiscussed suggestions. We seem to rehash a lot of stuff in this wish forum.
As always, commentary is open and welcome!

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"Holy slimeballs, it's Mike!"
Re: Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47817] Mon, 27 March 2000 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bearpit

 
Messages:1076
Registered:August 2001
Location: Sydney Australia.
Trust Officer Snake to be controversial. Barbie Dollys. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/smile.gif The closest thing to that in my memory is the medikits in X-COM one & two where you had a choice of healing solutions to use on the patient who was displayed as a sort of dolly on a mini screen. Very cute.

If you take a peek at progress on the No2 poll well multiple endings & endgame hall of fame is doing poorly. What surprises me even more is the disinterest for an editor which is last. Never mind. That endgame statistics wish is already virtually in place as you said with your mercs personel management screen. Sirtech could go all the way and include a "Hall Of Shame" where your total reloads or even a specific daily tally were displayed. Day 70=42 Reloads Tsk Tsk. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/eek.gif
Just needs glueing together. Great if it could be saved in a seperate folder so players were able to brag & publish their results.

Aelissa did a very detailed post about endgame options way back somewhere that discused ways a storyline could change throughout the game according to your actions and interactions with NPCs or lack of them. The game already has low key outcome variables in that you can screw up quests which affects loyalty or lose an NPC like Jake then have no accesss to fuel or get Skyrider killed & have no chopper sort of stuff but I guess your thinking along a more involved in depth unfolding storyline which could branch into different directions depending on your actions maybe "Fallout" style along with a suitable variety of endgame scenes & ratings.

This sort of thing would be more than possible if some of those "multiple factions" options were enabled such as having a militia, rebels, police, black marketeers, political groups etc all being an integral part of a game where diplomacy & alliances were crucial to the overall strategy not just a slog to the capital.


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Of all the things I've ever lost I miss my mind the most.
Regards Bearpit
Re: Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47818] Mon, 27 March 2000 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uzi

 
Messages:69
Registered:March 2000
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Multiple endings are a must! I mean, if I go berserk and kill off the entire country to the last man, woman and child, I definitely don't want to see Mr.Morally-Good-Employer shaking my hand and congratulating me on a job well done!

The paper-doll system might be fun, but I like the JA/Xcom system more. It's already simple and functional. I personally don't think there's much difference between seeing a "right hand slot: picture of GAU-8 http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif" or actually seeing the gun on the right hand of the paper-doll, and I think it could be kept the same as it is without detracting anything from the game.

I can already spot my worn/wielded items in a split second, and I don't want to pause my thought and peer my eyes to see whether the merc has extears or walkman on them. If the external appearance and differences are done well, this might not be a problem.

Uzi

[This message has been edited by Uzi (edited 27 March 2000).]
Re: Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47819] Mon, 27 March 2000 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Colonel Rhombus
Messages:6
Registered:January 2000
Location: People's Republic of PigD...
A combination of factors, Snake's post about inventories and memories of X-COM, has made me think about JA2's inventory system. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it needs major reworking.

Firstly, AP costs must be assigned to accessing the inventory. When it takes no APs to fiddle incessently with your inventory, and it takes 3 APs to drop an item, something is clearly amiss.

Secondly, a merc's carrying capacity is limited by what he/she is wearing. If nothing, then they're limited to what they can sling over their back, what they can put in their pockets and stuff down their trousers. Basically bugger all. You can fit only the smallest items in your pockets, and your rifle needs a sling to carry it on your back.

The next phase is to add a beltkit or webbing. This item goes over your shoulders and around your waist and holds a series of pouches for storing canteens, mags, grenades and field dressing. This represents your merc's "Small Inventory Slots". Items stored here require only a small amount of APs to access since that is what the beltkit is designed for.

Next is your backpack. Large, cumbersome, but great storage capacity. This contains holds your "Large Inventory Slots". Alas, items stored here are nearly unaccessable in combat. You have to take the thing off first, then open it and hunt around for the item you're looking for. Many APs required. All non-combat equipment is generally stored here.

While we're on it, I'd like to see different clothing available in JA3. It would be good to select from jungle cams, urban cams, that black kit the SAS wear when they storm into Iranian embassies, etc., civilian clothing for undercover stuff like recon or sabotage.

And here's some miscellaneous stuff that I'd like to see:
  • slings and collapsable buttstocks for weapons that support them.
  • No more AP and HP for every different sort of ammo. It doesn't work that way. I'd like to see more realistic differences, like standard 5.56 ammo and the 5.56 SS109s. And while I'm at it, I'd like to make a quick note to SirTech: "5.56 ammo is not designed to tumble like the 5.45 rounds. 5.45 is way more deadly than standard 5.56, and on par with the SS109s."
  • No more silly things like barrel extenders. They are really stupid.
  • Please fix up the pistols and carbines. Pistols fire much too slowly. Carbines fire too slow compared to full-size rifles and don't outrange weapons like the MP5K and MAC-10 for reasons I'll never understand.
Well, that's me done for now. As usual, feedback or die!

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Regards,
Col. Rhombus
Re: Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47820] Mon, 27 March 2000 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3504
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Actually, I bet all Snake wants is to undress dat-barbie-doll Buns! http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Send her out in the field in her bikini and the enemy would surrender without a fight (who wouln't?) http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Now, on a more serious note, I spent hours watching the in-game animations in JA2 and I tell you there is were we should look for great features. I don't mean here movies, but the way your inventory changes are reflected upon the merc in the field. Now we can only see:

- empty hands
- gun in one hand
- guns in both hands
- rifles
- cammo
- firing mortar/LAW

I wish I could see on my mercs:

- different clothing
- tech kits
- wounds/maiming/bloody patches
- dirt/water
- different firing attitudes (single hand shooters, both hands shooters, one hand used for support, etc)



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"Bobo! Bad dog! Come back with that!" is all I remember from my latest brain surgery.


Re: Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47821] Tue, 28 March 2000 04:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uzi

 
Messages:69
Registered:March 2000
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Sorry Rhombus, I clearly missed the one flaw You mentioned: AP costs. Yes, they should be fixed. In X-com there weren't many things more annoying than trying to get stuff from Your backpack just to see that You ended up with no AP... But it's still realistic, and that is good. Were there any AP costs associated with the inventory in JA1?

One note: I'm able to carry an assault rifle (sling) and a LAW (sling), and since I have done this in ReaLife(TM), I should be able to carry two slinged weapons in JA3/4/5/... as well.

And making the webbing a different item, like the vests in JA1, would be a good change, unless it's once again: "I can find assault rifles from Bobby Rays, but who sells webbing?". Seriously, some thought should be put on what You would be able to buy. Maybe "The Bears Pit Army Surplus Store", Your No.1 place to buy camo, vests, lights, NVG, etc. from the net!? Or maybe Bobby Ray could expand his selection?

All other points Colonel made: Yep, give us these, Sir-Tech! Please?

Uzi

[This message has been edited by Uzi (edited 27 March 2000).]
Re: Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47822] Tue, 28 March 2000 06:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snake

 
Messages:47
Registered:February 2000
Location: PA, USA
Undressing Buns is NOT on my agenda...
Undressing Fox is.
The feedback is promising.

About the multiple endings:
Bear, compared to the other options put up for the poll, multiple endings seem a far cry from other, more serious additions to the new 3D approach. SO it's no wonder it hasn't been a popular choice among the others. The editor surprises me though...
And reloads aren't something to be included int he Hall of Shame. Any merc that goes into a potentially hot situation should have full clips at the ready. In JA2, when I went realtime in the midst of a sector assault, first and foremost was a fresh clip for every merc. It's not shameful, it's a MUST. Or maybe Im just auto happy... http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Where multiple factions would make for easy alternate ending possibilities, even something as simple as your overall performace could justify a separate ending. Take JA2 as a model:
If you finished the game on day 214, you would have a really sad ending with Arulco covered in mass graves and disorder from the prolonged insurrection. Enrico wouldn't be impressed. However, doing as I did for kicks, and finishing on day 15 would garner a great ending with Enrico hailed back into his country by legions of revitalized and enthusiastic locals.

Basically, I'm just clarifying my position. The endings don't have to be intricate. Also understand that although I was hooked on the tactical aspect of JA, the progressive plot and interaction kept me going full-tilt. I love a good storyline and plot. Adding twists to propogate alternate story paths, eventualy leading to differing conclusions, would just bake my cake.


Uzi,
True the paper doll system is no greater in functionality than the current inventory system. But as Shanga alluded to, the paper doll could do for mercs what's missing visually; individuality and personality. I realize Shanga was going for in-game on-screen animations, but the paper doll can be a cheap substitute. A base image with characteristics built in. Wolf might stand with the rifle hefted to this shoulder (as is my fav for him in the crouching relaxed animation). But Len, Gus, Shadow or any career soldiers could have shoulder slings and an ever-ready gun stance in the base doll. One more for kicks: Ice could hold pistols sideways movie-style for humor (definately not functionality).

Basially, it's all 2D art, but the overall effect is spectacular and could really lend some of the visual variety and individuality to the mercs.
Plus, I wanna see Fox in full-figure 2D. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/wink.gif
This would also allow alot more items to be represented in a smaller inventory panel. The full-figure paper doll could carry primary (inhand) and secondary (sling/holster/belt) weapons, armor of all types, and with the webbing suggestion, could add more 'fixing points' to the doll for smaller items such as grenades, flashlight, camo kits, etc. Fanny packs and rucksacks could also be depicted, with an inventory panel only necessary for fishing around for items in them (which would make inventory adjustment AP easy to figure... if it's on the doll proper, its easily accessible without AP penalty... if its in a sack/pouch, AP is required to dig).
Going into combat unprepared can kill you. Something that JA2 didn't really look into, but a paper doll system could partly rectify.

Face it... it's just more modern and cool looking than a flat, slot-based system. And frankly, not all that hard to accomplish.
Yes, Uzi was right, it CAN stay the same without loss of effectiveness, but it adds the benefit of merc individuality (for Shanga) in a visual sense for little to no additional work.

For those not truly attuned to what the system actually is, I can track down a copy of KISS. It's a computer program that simulated the paper doll experience, although mostly anime style.

Finally, Aelissa, I pity your loss of discretionary income over ROM2: I snagged it out of a bargain bin for $10. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif




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"Holy slimeballs, it's Mike!"
Re: Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47823] Tue, 28 March 2000 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Swift
Messages:3
Registered:January 2000
Location: Boras, Sweden
Hey,

Why don't make a doll in full 3D
which of course you can rotate
and dress/equip with everything you want.

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That's what I call a Swift reply!
Re: Roll the credits, Barbie![message #47824] Tue, 28 March 2000 12:25 Go to previous message
Colonel Rhombus
Messages:6
Registered:January 2000
Location: People's Republic of PigD...
Uzi, two slinged weapons is clearly possible as you indicate. I'm surprised I overlooked that. Oh well. Although on a side note, since you generally don't wear your pack in combat because it's so bloody big, cumbersome and heavy, two items would clatter together resulting in a loss of stealth. So in that regard the game should reward you with increased stealth when going in with minimal equipment.

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Regards,
Col. Rhombus
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