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GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1026] Tue, 12 September 2006 21:08 Go to next message
CaRNi4

 
Messages:45
Registered:August 2001
Location: NL
Quote:
AG (to Richard Therrien): With Jagged Alliance 3D gone, what's next in store for the cult franchise? From your posts at SFI forums, we know that JA3 will feature not one, but 5 fractions, and even more open-ended world than in JA2Краткая информация об игре. You're probably not ready to announce the game right now, but can you drop us some hints about what to expect?

RT: Just this then: Jagged Alliance 3 will have a lot of parameters that will be subject to randomization on starting a new game. We might (or might not) have a non-random initial setup, like some sort of 'official' game. This still has to be verified but is likely to happen.

This goes so far that even some characters that you meet may act different from game to game and have different allegiances and agendas.

In that sense it may feel more open ended since the player actions should also have an impact on how other enemy and friendly factions do in that world. Player actions and decisions will also affect how people react to him and his band.

Under certain circumstances, it will be possible and desirable to undertake cover up infiltration actions and avoid triggering the area into battle by way of stealth or just by going in as strangers without apparent weapon.

The game settings will not be in Arulco this time but in a totally different part of the world. It will offer a greater range of environments than previous JA games offered.

And the game will not look like a floating platform in space.
Read the rest here.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1027] Tue, 12 September 2006 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kropotkin

 
Messages:48
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca
Wow some really great tennis Razz
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1028] Wed, 13 September 2006 00:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bearpit

 
Messages:1076
Registered:August 2001
Location: Sydney Australia.
This is the real thing guys. Have a read, discover both sides of the truth.
Congratulations to AG.RU for their great interview. Covers everything.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1029] Wed, 13 September 2006 01:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pambos

 
Messages:14
Registered:July 2005
Great link .
Great info but after I read it the questions remains .....
How long do we have to wait ?
I have trust in Richard's vision of the game but I am not getting any younger ...
I really hope the new team working on JA3 is what the real fans of the game expect and they will materialize this game finally.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1030] Sat, 16 September 2006 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beamer
Messages:7
Registered:December 2002
Location: Newark, NJ
I'll be honest - that interview is the first time I've ever trusted SFIs vision of JA3. The first time I've felt there was an interest in making a good JA product, rather than just taking advantage of the JA name.


Still makes me wonder, though, why SFI didn't get the JA team to do it, back when the JA team was advertising themselves as free agents. While it may have been costlier, in retrospect it would have likely been better. For one, less headaches. For another, we'd probably either already have JA3, or be very close to it.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1031] Sat, 16 September 2006 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shrike

 
Messages:61
Registered:December 2002
Location: Belgium
Beamer, you are refering to the time SFI had to file for (near?) bankruptcy. I imagine things have picked up on that front ever since Silverstar Holdings took over SFI in April 2005, but you could hardly expect the original team to hang on and remain available for an eventuality like that. I am assuming that team was already split up by 2002 or 2003 anyway, as some of them worked on other games like Silent Storm (released in 2003).
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1032] Sun, 17 September 2006 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Unless I'm mistaken, the original Ja team was all but completely disbanded before SFI even got hold of the franchise.


In any event, the news comming directly from SFI has almost always been deeply respecting of the existing Ja2 features and only seeking to build on these. True, there were a few crazy ideas being bandied about with Ja3d but I never heard any bad news a pertaining to Ja2 except when one of the Mistland developers was trying to sell us on the ideas of 'smart pause' (= real time only) and non destructable game environments.
However, both of these ideas were shot down by Mr. Therrian pretty quickly and also were only meant for Ja3d.


This is a good interview because it really lets you see who was looking to maintain the jagged Alliance legacy and who was just interested in cashing in on the name.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1033] Sun, 17 September 2006 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kropotkin

 
Messages:48
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca
Khor stop the brutality please :bawling:

Yeah the interview really lets you see who's cashing in on the name: Mistland didn't work cheap enough so they got the cancellation. Now JA3 is going to be an uninspired re-make of the old prototype that Sirtech had going by the time Unfinished Business was published. Only it's going to be made by programmers who subsist on tin sardines and wodka, a step below Sirtech and without any creative freedom on their part.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1034] Sun, 17 September 2006 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Mistland tried to forcefeed crappy features into a great game while attempting to lobby the fanbase around their sacrifice of destructable map features to make room for 3d environment load of horsepie. Have you read nothing they've offered other than this interview?


Oh, wait a minute, I forgot how thin the air is up in the high Andes. Perhaps you just have comprehension problems.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1035] Sun, 17 September 2006 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kropotkin

 
Messages:48
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca
It's interesting, say something that goes against the good christian in love with his videogames and he starts yelling like a misbehaved little brat Very Happy
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1036] Sun, 17 September 2006 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beamer
Messages:7
Registered:December 2002
Location: Newark, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Shrike:
Beamer, you are refering to the time SFI had to file for (near?) bankruptcy. I imagine things have picked up on that front ever since Silverstar Holdings took over SFI in April 2005, but you could hardly expect the original team to hang on and remain available for an eventuality like that. I am assuming that team was already split up by 2002 or 2003 anyway, as some of them worked on other games like Silent Storm (released in 2003).
After the studio disbanded the team stuck together, the core of it at least, and advertised themselves as available for work. This was in early 2003.

I suppose you're right, this was 16 or 18 months before JA3 was announced. My sense of time on the matter seems to not be very accurate.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1037] Sun, 17 September 2006 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
erutan
Messages:7
Registered:December 2000
Location: LA, CA, USA
It's interesting that Mistland are planning to release the game very soon when Richard said SFI's reason for closing the deal was basically due to it needing another year (I suppose for what he wanted in it?).

Another discrepancy is Mistland saying the mission based system was forced on them and their program can handle sector movement etc vs the earlier comments by Richard that it was a change he reluctantly agreed to.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1038] Sun, 17 September 2006 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Well, I've been following this for the last few years - both here and at Strategy First's forums. I saw when a Mistland developer came here and there trying to rally support for both the 'smart pause' and the non destructable environments.
At one point they were talking down to fans who insisted on destructable walls saying something to the effect that if we wanted the game to appear within the next year we should just accept that in a 3d game they need to have non destructable walls. All this after most of us had already played Silent Storm and saw this could be achieved.

If you read what was said by both sides during the course of the last two years alone it becomes clear who was trying to push their crap and who was interested in making a quality game.

I'm sure if SFI wanted, they could have rushed some cut rate Ja3 out on the shelves and made at least some profit. The fact they haven't released anything is - to me - the best news possible under the circumstances.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1039] Mon, 18 September 2006 00:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bearpit

 
Messages:1076
Registered:August 2001
Location: Sydney Australia.
If GFI- Mistland or whoever is planning to release the game originally to have been JA3D under another name what exactly is this game ?

If it's the version Richard wanted as the official SF - GFI release then why would SFI cancel the contract almost at the point this game was ready ? Doesn't make sense.

So whatever is to be released might be some sort of parallel game that was developed "just in case" or a version Mistland intended to produce and deliver to SF "no matter what" and contrary to Richards intended standards.
Here it is, be gratefull we got this far, enjoy, where's our money, goodbye.

Consider this.
Mistland - GFI might indeed be able to market such a game but this would likely result in some sort of legal action by SF.
Can SF touch Mistland who are in Ruussia ??
Dont forget if Mistland really do distribute such a game they are the ones getting an income not SF.
Would Mistland distribute an English language version to the designated SF market ... USA, England, Canada, Australia - NZ ?
If not their sales would be limited unless there's a German version.

October will be an interesting month & I hope the Russian speaking forum watchers are going to keep us informed :animread:
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1040] Tue, 19 September 2006 06:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
if mistland release 'their' game in say , time for xmas market, why would sfi hold them up? apparently funded by themselves, surely they have the right to sell their product (as long as no ja references are made clear?) but i have to commend richard for staying true to our universe , no smart pause or crap like that, i enjoy ja as it is , i only want to see new missions, weapons and locations ! if i wanted a different experience then i'd look for a different game, case in point ufo , are aftermath and aftershock better games than the originals? no of course not , trying to update they're graphics turned out not too bad but realtime gameplay spoiled it for me (too old to adapt mebbe Wink ) so kudos to richard and i for one will have ja3 whenever it is deemed good enough to release


Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1041] Wed, 20 September 2006 02:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kropotkin

 
Messages:48
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca
In fact, I'm not too sure about the turn-based thing. If the Silent Storms proved anything, it was turn-based equals slow and boring... I don't think some company exec could understand that turn-based is another abstraction and convenience from the age of board games, just like a tiled playboard and D&D-style stats systems.

The advance in technology has turned these old facilitating methods into something that nowadays works against the game. In fact, the smart-pause if done right is very superior to old turn-based with its many problems, as E5 proved beyond doubt for me.

And there is the idea of seeing a zombified, gutted version of an early Sirtech draft. Done by an 'outsourced' and dependant developer and commanded by a company exec without much formal knowledge in games design. Last hurra before the ride into the sunset, methinks.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1042] Wed, 20 September 2006 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Well, we're not talking about Silent Storm are we? That game had some potential but was nowhere near as fun as Ja2 for me mainly because it's turn based interface was unweildy and it's 'characters' were one dimentional.

Ja2 has the best of both the real time and turn based elements rolled into one. When the action is intense you have time to completely immerse yourself in the situation because you have the ability to move every merc under your command exactly the way you want. When the action lets up a little you don't have to be slowed down by having to move each merc via action points.

Brilliant.


For those of us who don't like first person real time pimplehunts or just want a change of pace from that style of play this system offers the best alternative I've ever seen. The only improvement I can think of is a layering of the interrupt system so that multiple interrupts are possible under some circumstances. This is already hinted at in Ja2 but needs to be expanded on.
Other than that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the way time is handled in Ja2. Trying to fix what noone who loves the game thinks is broken is exactly the mentality that Mistland seemed to adopt. I really breath a sigh of relief that people who never cared for the game aren't developing the next version.

Sure, there's some people out there who want every game to be as close to a real timer as possible but there's plenty of other games out there to choose from if you want that, why wreck the Jagged Alliance series just to appeal to people who never really liked the game to begin with?
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1043] Wed, 20 September 2006 03:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
exactly my sentiments khor ,ive tried other games and just not as satisfied with play including your case in point silent storm . i did like 3d viewpoints but when zoomed in figures just looked unreal ,taking away immersion in the game !


Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1044] Wed, 20 September 2006 04:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kropotkin

 
Messages:48
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca
Quote:
Originally posted by Khor1255:
just to appeal to people who never really liked the game to begin with?
Well JA2 was great until too many "mods" ruined it. Especially the modsquad productions introduced so many cheats to the game that the tactical portion was completely ruined... ruined. I completed the main game two times and some mods too, but gave up on it someday.

In this regard current JA2 1.13 resembles a mindless shooter much more, as you don't need any special strategies and tactics, and the game even pauses for you when an enemy shows up. Then quick-load until it works out and call it a great tactics game. Thats about all I can say about the stereotypical accusations on "Realtime First Person Shooters" which are as nonsensical as ever on this forum.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1045] Wed, 20 September 2006 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
It's not the ease of play or anything like that that keeps most of us playing. If you like ease of play you can certainly reload the game until everything works out like you want it to. If not, you can use a little self discipline and let things happen the way they will.

Each choice is possible so if you don't like a whole lot of 'cheats' - don't use them. Is that so difficult? I don't like a game that forces you to play fair but would rather have the choice to play as intended or my own way if I like. Options are what good mods (and games) are all about.

I agree that it is possible for some mods to be unbalanced but if you accuse the 1.13 of completely wrecking the game you've obviously not played it. This system is more an upgrade of the original engine with new features a lot of us have been wanting since the onset of the original Ja2 game. Most of these new features (drop all immediately comes to mind) are easily toggleable by those who don't like them so I can't see where the problem could be?


More than the new features, the 1.13 offers a platform that is easier to mod from than the original version and changes you make to the items structure go almost without a hitch using this system. This never was possible with previous versions.
I don't get where you could possibly think that people making mods for a game ruin the base game in any way. Simply put, if you don't like mods of games don't play them. You can still play the original so where does a mod affect this?
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1046] Wed, 20 September 2006 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kropotkin

 
Messages:48
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca
That's it.. The "us" you mention is just a handful of diehards, not a general tactics game audience. As to the cheating thing, the problem is when cheats are presented as regular game features and not as cheats. As to the reload thing, you can see how the thread requesting regular permadeath mode for 1.13 was steamrolled by a few fanatics belonging to "us".
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1047] Wed, 20 September 2006 04:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
I do seem to remember the Ironman Mode being done away with to make room for the Drop All in the interface screen but it seems to be back in the latest (June 06) release. The 1.13 is an ongoing project so of course it is not going to appeal to everyone all the time but the 'us' I'm referring to are those who've voiced opinions on the subject and not some arbitrary clique. These folks represent those 'die hards' who have taken the time to actuall try out new versions of this game instead of being perched ready to poo poo any advance made by the so called amature community.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1048] Wed, 20 September 2006 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slayer

 
Messages:106
Registered:July 2002
Location: Mtn. View, Ca. Silicon Va...
Quote:
Originally posted by Khor1255:
I do seem to remember the Ironman Mode being done away with to make room for the Drop All in the interface screen but it seems to be back in the latest (June 06) release. The 1.13 is an ongoing project so of course it is not going to appeal to everyone all the time but the 'us' I'm referring to are those who've voiced opinions on the subject and not some arbitrary clique. These folks represent those 'die hards' who have taken the time to actuall try out new versions of this game instead of being perched ready to poo poo any advance made by the so called amature community.
Those who take time out of their lives (from family and friends....and I'm sure precious sleep)to make mods......I salute you! I'm sure you welcome constructive criticism but you also deserve our appreciation......thanks for all the hard work! :ok:
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1049] Wed, 20 September 2006 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kropotkin

 
Messages:48
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca
Quote:
Originally posted by Khor1255:
instead of being perched ready to poo poo any advance made by the so called amature community.
What's this? Your conspiracy theories again? Who is "perched ready to poo poo" on what? Illuminatusses? They told me they wouldn't squat in such a funny position, they prefer conspiracies "to make money off JA2" as you suggested earlier Wink
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1050] Wed, 20 September 2006 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beamer
Messages:7
Registered:December 2002
Location: Newark, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by kropotkin:
In fact, I'm not too sure about the turn-based thing. If the Silent Storms proved anything, it was turn-based equals slow and boring... I don't think some company exec could understand that turn-based is another abstraction and convenience from the age of board games, just like a tiled playboard and D&D-style stats systems.
Oh man.

Equals slow and boring... to you. But Silent Storm got some great reviews, so clearly your opinion isn't that of everyone.


Personally I hate real-time. Despise it, even. I like my squad based tactical games to be slow and methodical, like chess. Which is what JA was - chess with guns.

While Turn Based can work well when commanding entire armies, it does not work well for squads. In a squad every unit is vital - every decision and action important. Trying to manage one pair while flanking with another becomes tedious and obnoxious. Doing so in a RTS army based game is less so, because the individual units are just part of a hive - screw up with one and you still have hundreds of identical ones waiting.


If you want to use one game as an example, I ask you which game was a bigger critical and commercial success: Silent Storm or UFO: Aftermath? One was real time, one was turn based. Which was forgotten and which is beloved?
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1051] Wed, 20 September 2006 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kropotkin

 
Messages:48
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca
Quote:
Originally posted by Beamer:
If you want to use one game as an example, I ask you which game was a bigger critical and commercial success: Silent Storm or UFO: Aftermath? One was real time, one was turn based. Which was forgotten and which is beloved?
Well both are gone and forgotten. There aren't any mods or maps for the Silent series either. But in my opinion, the best turn-based squad game so far was Incubation. That one had the best ruleset of all the games in this genre, fast gameplay and was technically very good for its time too. However the best tactical squad game right now is E5.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1052] Wed, 20 September 2006 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
baby arm
Messages:9
Registered:May 2006
Location: baby arm fantasy island
Quote:
Well both are gone and forgotten. There aren't any mods or maps for the Silent series either.
Try here and here.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1053] Wed, 20 September 2006 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FastZ

 
Messages:125
Registered:January 2003
Location: Aalten, Netherlands
Good link baby arm. There is even a AddMod Tool to load the mods. I haven't tried it, but if it does what it says bla bla enthousiasm etc. Wink
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1054] Thu, 21 September 2006 04:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
gotta admit that i kind of agree with krop bout incubation . as he says great graphics n gameplay but way too short!based on that i bought battleisle andosia and what a disappointment. realtime fighting with too many units to manage im with khor and his chess analogy , if i get slaughtered at some point then back to beginning and plan a different approach . sod this cheating lark as there aint no satisfaction


Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1055] Thu, 21 September 2006 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beamer
Messages:7
Registered:December 2002
Location: Newark, NJ
I've been trying to find Incubation cheap, or better free, for a while now.

My old copy is godknowswhere now. I'm usually pretty good about holding onto discs, but can't find that.
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1056] Fri, 22 September 2006 05:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
anyway , im in agreement with slayer bout thanking modders for hard work ,jeez i couldn't be bothered so big cheers to all you techies who've helped the rest of us through lean ja times


Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1057] Sat, 23 September 2006 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shrike

 
Messages:61
Registered:December 2002
Location: Belgium
Had a lot of fun with the original incubation, but the expansion (Wilderness Missions iirc) became a tedious "puzzle game" early on and I never bothered with it after that. Different game, different atmosphere, but it was cool on my trusty old Voodoo 2 :ok:
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1058] Sat, 23 September 2006 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slayer

 
Messages:106
Registered:July 2002
Location: Mtn. View, Ca. Silicon Va...
Quote:
Originally posted by Beamer:
I've been trying to find Incubation cheap, or better free, for a while now.

My old copy is godknowswhere now. I'm usually pretty good about holding onto discs, but can't find that.
Try here...

GAMETZ TRADING ZONE
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1059] Mon, 25 September 2006 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shrike

 
Messages:61
Registered:December 2002
Location: Belgium
Apparently still for sale in the UK
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1060] Thu, 19 October 2006 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Solinx
Messages:2
Registered:October 2006
Back on topic, it's good to get the (more) complete story for a change.

About 2 years ago I stopped coming here. At that time I had given up on any worthy future games in this series and while I support the things you with the 1.13 mod, JA 2 has grown too old to retain my interest.

Today, the Strategy First newsletter listed Brigade E5: Jagged Union to be released soon. This brought me back to check once more on Bearpits forum. Im truely glad I did.

The titles that were worked on are cancelled, which is good news. Richard is posting again, which is good news. This interview finally gives us some insight on things, which is good news. Jagged Alliance 3 is going to be made with Richard paying close attention to the construction, which is very good news.

Solinx
Re: GFI&SFI Interview @ AG.ru[message #1061] Sat, 21 October 2006 09:15 Go to previous message
CaRNi4

 
Messages:45
Registered:August 2001
Location: NL
I dont like e5, just so you know. I loved the demo, but the game just doesnt do it for me. Kinda like a longer version of the demo.
Never the less i'm going to give another couple of try's.
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