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Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100982]

Mon, 29 March 2004 09:05

Ninth Hour is currently offline

Messages:33
Registered:January 2004

Burst fire, at present, isn't very good at hitting multiple targets in a crowd. This is especially true if the person firing is a good marksman, with auto-weapons expertise. Most of the shots will be closely grouped and will hit the same target multiple times, rather than several targets.

One tactical option that would be nice is the ability to disperse fire over a number of tiles, instead of just one. This feature would be epecially useful in giving light machine guns their proper squad support role.

Of course, I wonder how feasible it would be and how it might be best accomplished. Either

1) a separate mode/button could be created to specify a cone-shaped spread of fire, with multiple target tiles, (which would require too many changes to current game interface and mechanics) or

2) burst could be kept centered on a single tile, as it is now, but the cost to "sweep" the burst to tiles directly adjacent to the original target could be very low (e.g. 1 AP to burst 1 tile adjacent, 2 AP to burst 2 tiles adjacent, 3 AP to burst 3 tiles adjacent). The firing arc may be limited to a reasonable number of adjacent tiles, e.g. three. Any burst that has to be adjusted to a new target more than three tiles away from the first will incur the usual burst cost.

Don't know how this may fit in with the new full autofire scheme, but it may be worth considering, if it's not too complex to implement. With full autofire now a possibility, it seems like the next logical step to be able to sweep a long, continuous burst across closely grouped targets. This ability would have to be properly balanced though.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100983]

Mon, 29 March 2004 10:43

Digicrab is currently offline

Messages:253
Registered:December 2003

You do know that you can spread your burst over several squares in plain JA2 don't you?

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100984]

Mon, 29 March 2004 15:53

Ninth Hour is currently offline

Messages:33
Registered:January 2004

As a matter of fact, I don't, and I've been playing for a long time. The only way to achieve spread seems to be to aim behind the target or at some oblique angle...which doesn't work consistently. Usually, any spread will be accidental hits from shots that miss the primary target, and if your marksmanship is excellent, there will be little spread from your shots.

Feel free to enlighten me if there's a better way. I'm probably just ignorant.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100985]

Mon, 29 March 2004 16:04

Digicrab is currently offline

Messages:253
Registered:December 2003

Try holding down the left mouse button and dragging when you burst.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100986]

Tue, 30 March 2004 01:46

defrog is currently offline

Messages:235
Registered:March 2004
Location: Austria

man, wish I knew that a long time ago! Smile

Smile

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100987]

Tue, 30 March 2004 05:49

KIA is currently offline

Messages:92
Registered:November 2002
Location: Virginia (USA)

Yeah, area fire is less than fully effective, but if you gotta get a crowd to drop to crouching or prone, there's nothing like a minimi burst... 'cept maybe a shotgun or CAWS...

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100988]

Tue, 30 March 2004 05:50

Ninth Hour is currently offline

Messages:33
Registered:January 2004

Amazing that I never discovered this function in all the years I played JA2. Doesn't work very well though. I tried dispersing the burst at two enemies at POINT BLANK range (one of the targets was just one tile away from my merc), and each time the bullets flew behind or THROUGH the targets without doing damage. I experimented several times, and the best I was able to accomplish was 8 points of damage from a single hit to one of the enemies(and this wasn't even the one directly adjacent to me).

So the function does exist, but it seems useless. I don't expect it to be accurate by any means, but when a sprayed burst (from a merc with autoweapons skill) can miss a target on the square adjacent to the firer, there's something not quite right about the physics...

Even Fallout, which lacks JA2's depth in tracing bullet trajectories, does a better job of modeling the area effect of bursts.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100989]

Tue, 30 March 2004 07:33

KIA is currently offline

Messages:92
Registered:November 2002
Location: Virginia (USA)

Actually, I flat-out HATED Fallout's burst "cone" implementation which tended to hit everything except what you were aiming for. If an AK-47 has a fifteen or twenty-foot wide burst "cone" on a five-shot burst it would have no significant target saturation; that is, the ratio of lead against the volume of the area being covered, the "cone", would be tiny. Chances of hitting any thing within that cone should have been almost nil, yet for some reason targets other than the point of aim got blasted. Ridiculous.

Now if you told me that the "cone" should have gotten smaller as the shooter became more proficient, I'd agree. A five shot burst from a good shooter should be able to put at least three in a torso-sized target at combat range. The other two should probably not be seven or eight feet away, however. They should be near-misses.

Overall, I like the JA2 implementation of burst penalty. It is fairly realistic, comprehensible, fun, and predictable.

Now there's probably a problem with the area-fire implementation in JA2. It would be better to have "target" selection by Shift-Clicking several nearby targets to burst at them all. Still, I don't think Fallout is anywhere nearly as good as JA2.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100990]

Tue, 30 March 2004 09:35

Thrangar is currently offline

Messages:11
Registered:March 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA

@ Ninth Hour - I agree that with the inclusion of a true full-auto option, an effective spread-fire option would be a good addition, and makes sense.

KIA's suggestion of being able to select multiple targets within a field of fire centered around the first selected target (perhaps with increasing AP costs for each additional target selected) seems, to me, to be the easiest way to implement and still get the desired effect.

The ability to effectively spread burst fire would certainly present new tactical options for managing multiple enemies in close contact, and I for one would like try a few of them.

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100991]

Tue, 30 March 2004 11:19

Digicrab is currently offline

Messages:253
Registered:December 2003

About, the effictiveness of the spread burst. I expect it'll be a whole lot more useful when you can fire off 50 rounds per turn (LMGs and such).

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100992]

Wed, 31 March 2004 04:32

Ninth Hour is currently offline

Messages:33
Registered:January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Digicrab:
About, the effictiveness of the spread burst. I expect it'll be a whole lot more useful when you can fire off 50 rounds per turn (LMGs and such).

Exactly. Usefulness of spread fire will depend ultimately on ROF. If ROF and ammo capacity are high, you have more rounds to spread over a particular area...hence an advantage of LMGs and GPMGs over assault rifles, something that isn't always evident in JA2.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100993]

Mon, 12 April 2004 06:35

PegasusJF is currently offline

Messages:19
Registered:March 2004
Location: Northern IL

Though these are good ideas, we have to consider its consequence to game balance. Assuming we do implement full burst fire (and give High ROF to machine guns) and teach the AI to properly use it. How does a player move against a fortified position with one or more machine guns nests? The advantage would definitely be with the defender and it would be nearly impossible to
approach a well defended position without mercs getting shot/killed.

The only way to fix this is to many include player controlled milita and pretty much use them as sacraficial lambs so the mercs can close in or take out the gunners....or use lots of LAWs and Mortars.

My 2 cents

PegasusJF

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100994]

Mon, 12 April 2004 10:30

Khor1255 is currently offline

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Balance is always a good thing to keep in mind. And beta testing battles with actual burst fire is a must. But also bear in mind that in actual accounts of combat a fortified position is sometimes defined as merely an area with two or more overlapping fields of LMG fire. And advances are often made by laying down covering fire in the direction of you're advancing force.
What I'm getting at is this represents a potential sea change in Ja2 tactics similar to the brutal learning curve armies of the First World War had to suffer through.

I like the idea of using expendable pointmen similar to the 'red shirt' Star Trek extras. These could be commandable militla (as you mentioned) or perhaps a new 'semi-proffesional' class of mercs not as skilled but more importantly not affecting morale as much when they die. I know I'm asking a lot with this but you people who know C and are familliar with the code may know an easy way to make this happen. Perhaps it's already there with MERC mercs?

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Sergeant Major

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100995]

Mon, 12 April 2004 22:32

Kurt is currently offline

Messages:420
Registered:March 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by PegasusJF:
How does a player move against a fortified position with one or more machine guns nests?

IMHO just like in real life: Bomb them out with mortars, or if it's a bunkerlike fortification with limited field of view, try to get around it and throw a couple grenades inside. Or use some well-placed satchel charges to reduce it to rubble.

Frontal assault, with truckloads of casualties, is a Bad Idea.
AFAIK all officers have learnt the lesson since WWI. It's far too bad for troop (and civil) morale, not to mention you'll really need *a lot* of sacrificial lambs to get the machinegunners to spend all their ammo reserve...
IMHO, if you do this with your militia, you won't be able anymore to train militia afterwards. They are not crazy, they don't want to die because of some boneheaded officer lacking basic tactical skills. Same thing about mercs, and even worse: They are there to make a living, not to sacrifice themselves...

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100996]

Tue, 13 April 2004 01:48

xcorps is currently offline

Messages:11
Registered:April 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by PegasusJF:
How does a player move against a fortified position with one or more machine guns nests?
The advantage would definitely be with the defender and it would be nearly impossible to
approach a well defended position without mercs getting shot/killed.
PegasusJF

That's the point of having a well defended position. Wink

Wink

Fortifications deny a specific area to the enemy, but sacrifice initiave, mobility, and awareness.
A good base of fire obtaining and maintaing fire supreriority, and using smoke to obscure the objectives LOS while an enveloping team approaches the "back" entrance to the fortification outside the LOF are the key. Tossing satchel charges and grenades at the firing slots is really difficult. (try it sometime, tossing a tennis ball from 20-30 feet from cover, prone, and while your wife is shooting at you, into a car window rolled about halfway down).
Well trained/disciplined troops in a fortified position are going to be pretty much unaffected by a few small mortars, unless those mortars are firing impact fuse white phosphorous very accurately. HE won't do much, except maybe some concussion, and that would be little.

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100997]

Tue, 13 April 2004 02:43

Ninth Hour is currently offline

Messages:33
Registered:January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by PegasusJF:

The only way to fix this is to many include player controlled milita and pretty much use them as sacraficial lambs so the mercs can close in or take out the gunners...

Cannon fodder tactics are an archaic idea and incongruous with the guerilla tactics normally associated with JA2. If you throw away so many lives in a heedless head-on assault, you'll soon lose popular support.

I'm no tactician, but I believe there's no such thing as an impregnable defense. Fixed fortifications may be formidable, but they give up mobility. On the other hand, your advantage, as a small, irregular force IS mobility. If you want proper balance, maps should be designed with this idea in mind. Your squad should be able to evade the machine gun nests, perhaps find a circuitous route around the defenses to a less well-defended area...perhaps even find a "backdoor" to the nests.

This type of evasion should be easier in an open field, as the guns would have to cover a wide area, and the chance of finding gaps in the defense would theoretically be more likely. Approach from the sides, moving from cover to cover. Machinegun defenses would be more difficult to avoid if you're trying to infiltrate a base, as there would then be fewer points of access to your objective, and the guns could be placed at all the important chokepoints.

Even then, there are alternatives to suicidal frontal attacks. Mortars, as mentioned, could soften hardpoints. Maybe TOW-II missiles could be used against bunkers. And perhaps you could even call in airstrikes if you managed to capture an airbase and found pilots willing to assist you.

If all this is too much, then simply don't include machine gun nests/bunkers per se. The strongest infantry fortification in JA2 was a sandbag barrier. It was tough to crack head-on, but was very vulnerable to mortar-fire. No real need to change this.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100998]

Tue, 13 April 2004 03:38

PegasusJF is currently offline

Messages:19
Registered:March 2004
Location: Northern IL

That all is true, thanks for the replies.

One thing in Wildfire that I find amusing that there is typically one way to get in. One way that happens not to be illuminated, the "back door." All that is needed are wirecutters and viola you're in the base, ready to take everyone out.

Personally, this strikes me as kind of unrealistic, if I was that base commander, I would have tons of lights all over the place.

Let's assume that the source code project produces bases with such well-thought out defenses with a sizable garrison, how to 6, 12, 18 mercs get through that?

Well, having a larger screen resolution certainly allows for more room to put names, so hightening the merc hire limit is possible.

But as others have mentioned, perhaps we can have the option hire less "colorful" mercs and soldiers ala X-COM. Basic voice effects, not much personality. They probably would typically have average stats, with a few gems here and there. They wouldn't be worthless, they don't have to be cannon fodder (treating them as such should have conseqences). But they would be a good way to distract enemies from your stealth insertion squad (it's always Squad 1 for me) to go throw a back door and cause havoc.

My 2 cents

PegasusJF

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #100999]

Tue, 13 April 2004 03:52

xcorps is currently offline

Messages:11
Registered:April 2004

I totally agree with Ninth hour about using militia to assault bunkers.

There IS no such thing as an impregnible defense. Admiral Keiji Shibasaki was the commander of Tarawa defenses, and he boasted it would take a million men a thousand years to defeat he forces. 1 division of Marines did it in 72 hours. Over 500 bunkers and strongpoints.
Maginot Line-Hitler ignored it (!)
Omaha, Utah, Gold Beach-we won

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101000]

Tue, 13 April 2004 10:25

Khor1255 is currently offline

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Yea, there should definately be consequences for losing any type of soldier. What I was getting at is perhaps a 'rival' merc hiring pool (maybe MERC) who the AIM mercs aren't really fond of. These folks would be more the thrill seeker type of hired gun with not much military experience and when they die neither the AIM people or the locals get too upset.

As for the 'bunkers' I think a balanced way to have these would largely be up to mappers. You would have to place these bunkers toward the middle of the map or at least not at the edge. Putting these fortified spots at the edge of the map would unfairly close off a flank.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101001]

Tue, 13 April 2004 22:20

Kurt is currently offline

Messages:420
Registered:March 2004

True, especially if we're talking bunkers. Anyway, most of the time you'd IMHO rather meet a checkpoint with just a couple of sandbags and a HMG. A couple of mortar shells should be able to clean that out.

BTW: Why don't you modelize *heavy* mortars too? You would need several mercs to transport the pieces, and it would take some time to ready it. Shells would weight a lot too (that is where a vehicle with storage room comes handy!).

PegasusJF,
if this is possible, please do it: Make squads bigger! It's a pain having to manage 3 different squads in battle. 10-12 person squads would be perfect, so you can create squads according to your tactical needs, and not because of the game's limits.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101002]

Wed, 14 April 2004 01:10

xcorps is currently offline

Messages:11
Registered:April 2004

I agree with Kurt about squad sizes. It would be nice to have a 12 man squad.

As far as mortars go, IRL it already takes 3 men to transport a USMC 60mm mortar (without ammo). Tube, baseplate, aiming stakes, and I think the support arms are carried differernt, but I was a rifleman, not a mortarman so I may recall incorrectly. 81MM mortars (heavy mortars) are the same team size, IIRC. In combat, the ammo load is distributed amongst and entire company, and it's stacked when the company sets up for the evening. I carried a radio (ANPRC77) in Iraq, so I only (!) had to carry 1 mortar round. Everyone else had to carry 2, expect SAW gunners.

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101003]

Wed, 14 April 2004 05:22

fpro is currently offline

Messages:5
Registered:May 2003

BTW, if you hadn't noticed already, the code for spread burst is in, you guessed it, Spread Burst.c (tactical folder). It includes a good number of comments.

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101004]

Tue, 20 April 2004 10:15

SharkD is currently offline

Messages:351
Registered:July 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by PegasusJF:
The only way to fix this is to many include player controlled milita and pretty much use them as sacraficial lambs so the mercs can close in or take out the gunners....or use lots of LAWs and Mortars.[/QB]

Or tanks.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101005]

Tue, 20 April 2004 10:17

SharkD is currently offline

Messages:351
Registered:July 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurt:
BTW: Why don't you modelize *heavy* mortars too? You would need several mercs to transport the pieces, and it would take some time to ready it. Shells would weight a lot too (that is where a vehicle with storage room comes handy!).

Or have spotters with snipers.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101006]

Tue, 20 April 2004 12:00

DaCheetah is currently offline

Messages:74
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...

how about just adding a scroll bar to the merc roster? then you wouldn't have a merc limit at all. This of course would facitlitate larger squads. (a scroll bar on the actual avatar plate... easily switched with the shift space for easy access) I still think tactical vehicle use would be boss... but the problem would be, of course, the balance factor. The enemy would have them too, which would make this game a tough son of a bitch since the enemy generally has better equipment before you do.

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Corporal

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101007]

Tue, 20 April 2004 12:06

Khor1255 is currently offline

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Mortars should also be way less accurate on the first shot which is typically used to calibrate the aim. The fact first shots are typically bullseyes is unrealistic both phisically and tactically.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101008]

Tue, 20 April 2004 18:56

tuccy is currently offline

Messages:19
Registered:June 2003
Location: Czech Republic

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurt:
BTW: Why don't you modelize *heavy* mortars too? You would need several mercs to transport the pieces, and it would take some time to ready it. Shells would weight a lot too (that is where a vehicle with storage room comes handy!).

And medium/heavy machineguns, one man with tripod, another with MG, another with ammo...

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101009]

Tue, 20 April 2004 21:47

Kurt is currently offline

Messages:420
Registered:March 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Khor1255:
The fact first shots are typically bullseyes is unrealistic both phisically and tactically.

Unless you consider the ranges in JA, and the fact that you're in visual range of your target... But you're right, and mortar handling should be a specialist's job. Personally I just know how to throw a shell in, and even if I'm a good shot and know the principles of ballistics, using a mortar I would be unable to hit a football field.

Tuccy,
yes, of course. It would give a larger progression in weapons, and let you modulate difficulty.
It would give you some place to spend your money too: Spare gearbox for that tank (heck, nobody knows how to drive that thing)... Several crates of 40mm grenades for that MK-19, and defensive smoke pots for those APCs (to make smoke screens if attacked)...

Of course it would need larger maps, but if the resolution is improved, that shouldn't be a problem.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101010]

Fri, 23 April 2004 16:28

markpoll is currently offline

Messages:101
Registered:November 2002
Location: sydney

The thing I really love about mortars is the way you can have a rifle in your hand and lose a fast draw contest with a guy with a mortar Wink

Wink

Re LMGs, I think the suggested changes would put more emphasis on good map design and lead to some interesting tactical challenges. The same goes with tanks. If you could make them mobile and give them a restricted arc of vision and/or fire, you'd have interesting challenges taking out armour on foot.

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Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101011]

Fri, 23 April 2004 21:55

Kurt is currently offline

Messages:420
Registered:March 2004

Indeed. After all, that's no tavern brawl, it's a guerilla war against a regular army.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101012]

Sat, 24 April 2004 20:58

erutan is currently offline

Messages:7
Registered:December 2000
Location: LA, CA, USA

I personally like most of the suggestions, at least to have them beta tested, except having expendable characters. It's just going to be tedious hiring, equipping, etc, and you don't get that "I'm building up a character" feeling.

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Private

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101013]

Tue, 04 May 2004 17:17

ADG Wraith is currently offline

Messages:22
Registered:September 2000
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia

@ Xcorps
Mortars would have a hell of a lot more effect than you're making out, by matter of sheer concussion. But then, that depends on the construction of the bunkers (wood, metal, concrete, sandbags). WP isn't really effective unless there's no lid on it or if it's wood. BTW... AN/PRC 77? what the hell? that's about as old as I am!

The best way to hit a fortified position is simple fire-and-move. Use the offesive support you have (be that an LMG all the way up to close air support, armour and artillery), move from cover to cover until you are close enough to enter and clear the bunker(s) with bayonet and grenade. You're not trying to throw from 20-30m away, you're popping one in during fight-through.

In JA2 (at the section level), you'll likely have LMGs, M72A4s (LAWs to the uneducated), 40mm grenades, standard grenades, and of course rifles. If suppression fire was modelled effectively in JA2, it would be very do-able. Your average F89 or MAG 58 would be able to suppress a small sandbag bunker whilst others moved in for the kill.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101014]

Wed, 05 May 2004 02:53

Kurt is currently offline

Messages:420
Registered:March 2004

Problem is suppression doesn't work at all... The AI never fears death, they don't show the slightest hesitation to get themselves (unnecessarily) killed. One of the AI problems.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101015]

Wed, 05 May 2004 09:42

Khor1255 is currently offline

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

That's a good point and perhaps worthy of it's own category. It would be cool if the AI had more adaptable combat modes. Tactical retreat is a very effective way conserve troops or bait enemies into a trap. If fear or retreat were implemented into the enemy AI I would think it only fair that some mercs also retreat. In fact, certain conditions should concievably produce a rout. The IMP merc would perhaps be the only one free from fear.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101016]

Wed, 05 May 2004 14:58

markpoll is currently offline

Messages:101
Registered:November 2002
Location: sydney

I think getting suppressing fire to work would be one of the best and most significant changes which could be made. It would put much more focus on tactics. Perhaps incoming fire would subtract APs from the target and neighbours, carried over to following turns. You'd probably want to link this to morale (the greater the morale the less the effect), but incoming fire should reduce morale. Then again, my mercs would respond to that by carrying around backpacks full of beer for such situations.

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Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101017]

Wed, 05 May 2004 15:03

markpoll is currently offline

Messages:101
Registered:November 2002
Location: sydney

Quote:

Originally posted by Khor1255:
That's a good point and perhaps worthy of it's own category. It would be cool if the AI had more adaptable combat modes. Tactical retreat is a very effective way conserve troops or bait enemies into a trap. If fear or retreat were implemented into the enemy AI I would think it only fair that some mercs also retreat. In fact, certain conditions should concievably produce a rout. The IMP merc would perhaps be the only one free from fear.

It might be a matter of tweaking something already there. I've had games where a BG has turned tail and run and even left the sector. Admittedly, I can't remember that happening other than to a last surviving BG who was badly wounded. If (as I assumed it did) BGs run when their morale drops below a certain level and losing buddies and getting wounded lowers morale, wouldn't it be a matter of tweaking values and making this effect more pronounced?

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Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101018]

Thu, 06 May 2004 15:55

Kurt is currently offline

Messages:420
Registered:March 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by drop bear:
You'd probably want to link this to morale (the greater the morale the less the effect), but incoming fire should reduce morale.

Better not, you would have a heavy demoralized squad after each battle... Better link it to the need to duck and get cover. If you hear bullets whistling around your ears, you'll certainly shift position to get in cover (I know I'll do!).

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Master Sergeant

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101019]

Mon, 10 May 2004 09:56

ADG Wraith is currently offline

Messages:22
Registered:September 2000
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia

I've heard that there's another element in the inclusion of "shock points", but that's only modelled where the merc gets hit. maybe incorporate that with loss of APs (make it more than just 5 that you can lose in the next round) and the crouch/prone thing.

I'd also like to see the ability to go from standing to prone in one movement.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101020]

Mon, 10 May 2004 10:47

Folkewulf is currently offline

Messages:56
Registered:August 2003

I like the bunkers idea. But it seems to me that there already are bunkers in the game. They're called tanks. So to test infantry bunkers would it be possible to replace the tank cannon with a high rate of fire machine gun (say triple the standard rate) and maybe a grenade launcher that fire independently of each other. If you limit the turret traverse to 30 degrees or so and change the graphic, you have an infantry bunker.

just a thought

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Corporal

Re: Burst fire as an area-of-effect attack[message #101021]

Mon, 10 May 2004 19:06

Kurt is currently offline

Messages:420
Registered:March 2004

That's a good idea. You'll have to limit their turret's movement, but it could work. Replace the gun by a HMG, and you get nice little machine gun nests.

Of course it would be cool if you'd be able to gas/snipe the servants and keep the thing intact, but that would need much more work.

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