The Bears Pit: v1.13 General Development Talk » "1.13" Mod

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

Grindedstone,

Enemies do have maximum ammo in their guns when they start out (at least that's what the code says). The # of bullets in a gun is never randomized.

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10446]

Tue, 23 August 2005 03:35

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Mugs

Please don't forget to externalise whether a weapon is one handed or two and how it stacks in an item slot. Right now I'm hung up on ammo magazines so if you could externalise this data, those of us making new weapon mods from you're version can at least get the firearms straight.

I'm also wondering if it is possible for you to externalise (or even adjust) loading time required for each weapon and make weapons full auto only? Loading time would enable us to make a difference between loading 7 individual shotgun shells (which would take more time than...) and a clip. A feature that would really make weaponmods more dynamic by giving magazine fed weapons their true advantage. With this we might also tweak the high level of aps it takes to use single shot weapons down a bit to restore the upset balance.

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10447]

Tue, 23 August 2005 03:56

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

I won't forget Smile

Nice ideas. I'd need to recode the reloading section and the weapons.dat file read access for the load time variations, but it should be doable. Not so certain about removing single shot firing from some weapons though.

I've been poking through the Item Flags in the code. These dictate whether an item is two handed, electronic, an attachment, repairable, etc. I think I can replace the awful binary flag (that everyone would need to figure out if they wanted to make changes) with some straightforward booleans. This would make modding even easier Smile

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10448]

Tue, 23 August 2005 04:07

Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH

hi muggs

what about this:

weapons ATM can have single shot, burst and full auto

i`m for keeping in the single shot for every gun, but some guns burst only and others (LMG`s) full auto only

and some would have both features

would be great to trigger this in weapons.dat (enable/ disable full auto/ burst)

btw is it hard to trigger new Cursors? i can think of a scope-cursor for sniper rifles. i would designe one if it were possible to code a new cursor in

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10449]

Tue, 23 August 2005 04:15

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

Scorpion,

You can have weapons that only have burst or full-auto right now. Just change the bBaseAutofireCost and bAutofireShotsPerFiveAP to 0 for no autofire, and/or set the ubShotsPerBurst to 0 for no burst.

I'm not sure how to make new cursors show up. A new one would have to be hardcoded for sure, but it'd be a lot of work, I think.

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10450]

Tue, 23 August 2005 04:37

Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH

well it`s not necessary to have a new cursor

i just wanted to hear if it is possible but nevermind if it isn`t/ too much work

okay. so if my weapon presently has a burst but no full auto, it is because bBaseAutofireeCost (or the other variable or both) is set to zero?

thx.

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10451]

Tue, 23 August 2005 04:53

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

Yes, both should be zero. (see the glock 18 for example)

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10452]

Tue, 23 August 2005 05:07

Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH

okay great

so i can set burst to zero but enable the last variable so the gun can have no burst but full auto. i think i`ll do that with lmg`s

still need to think about assault rifles and smg`s wether allowing full auto or not

that`s very cool. i always wanted the possibility to make distinctions between the firearms. with full auto and new attachs thats gonna give a lot of potential

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10453]

Tue, 23 August 2005 07:49

ratbag

Messages:6
Registered:December 2004
Location: Australia

Hi Mugsy,
I thought I'd mention that it locks up in the credits on my machine, with the exec you've got on your site.

Private

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10454]

Tue, 23 August 2005 07:51

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

Yeah, it does that on mine too. Not sure why yet. For now, just don't view the credits Wink

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10455]

Tue, 23 August 2005 10:00

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

Scorpion,

I was looking at the cursor code in more detail. I'm thinking of making sniper rifles allow extra points to be spent on aiming. Normal weapons only allow four, but it looks like there're eight targeting cursors in the code. I'm still not sure whereabouts cursors are loaded, but I think I may be able to do something here. Let me play around with it before you do any work on drawing the new cursor, and I'll let you know what happens.

Cheers,

MM

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10456]

Tue, 23 August 2005 11:31

Phantom

Messages:66
Registered:November 2001
Location: behind you ...

Madd Mugsy, would it be possible to implement a "Gun Cleaning Kit"? - it would be to the toolbox, what the 1st Aid kit is to the Medical Kit.

Might be worth asking the people who developed other mods to use some of their stuff.
I'm thinking specifically "NightOps":
*controlled bursts {yes I know your mod has controlled full auto}
*enemy armored HumVees (not as tough as tanks but mobile, still need more than small arms to take out)
*mercenaries might show up on the enemies' side (!)
*only mercs with "Teaching" skill can instruct militia (up to 30 per sector)
*militia trainable in Omerta
*need a Medical skill of 80+ to enable "Doctor" command
- just a few of scores of good ideas!

Other mods too;
Urban Chaos has an IMP editor that is fully functional. Liked the entry sector too, coming into the country via airport, without weapons (but I know some found it tedious after the 5th or 10th time).

Like the paradrops in Vengeance; I'm sure this mod has plenty of great changes but I've only begun to explore it.

Bloody Grounds has an atmospheric rain effect (unsure if it impacts on gameplay?)

btw, posted those Prof files to your msn address

Corporal

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10457]

Tue, 23 August 2005 12:46

Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH

the rain effect unfortunately makes the game very slow and reduces visibilty and accuracy (not sure about this though, it`s long time ago)

i`d love to have snow rather than rain but that`s a different story wiht tilesets and all

keep us updated with the further changes and ideas muggsy, sounds interesting

btw i dislike arbitrary limits/ skills necessities for certain tasks. This spoils the mercenary balance in favour of those few specialized mercs
(like most mods have too many locked doors. you can`t avoid hiring trevor or magic or so)

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10458]

Tue, 23 August 2005 12:52

PoliceLT

Messages:31
Registered:August 2005
Location: Australia, Melbourne

I'm not sure why you'd need a merc with Medical skill over 80+ to use the doctor command, besides, what's the point in having an instructional manuel inside each of the medkits if you can't proceed with operations?

Mercs with teaching skill only? Sounds like you want the leadership stat off completely!

If you didn't notice, there is already a militia in Omerta, you might know it as the "Rebel Movement".

Gotta admit that a Hum-Vee sounds cool, but I think that it'd be extremely hard to take out in theory. Unless ofcourse, you make the hum-vee extremely slow, but that would be somewhat strange, wouldn't it?

Gun cleaning kits sounds unneeded. Most toolkits have WD-40, pipe cleaners and screw drivers.

Although I do like the rain and paradrop ideas.

Private 1st Class

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10459]

Tue, 23 August 2005 21:28

Wil473

Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada

In the beta of Night Ops that was available here a little while ago, a few grenades could deal with the Hum-Vee's. In principle it reuses existing JA material. Sounds and moves like the remote controlled robot, but autonomous, capable of automatic fire, and armoured. Also recycle's the player Hum-Vee sti (has all four views). Didn't someone else modify the bugs into moving vehicles?

Related to this, is the .50 Cal M82 here capable of damaging armour (1 or 2 hit points)?

Now what I'm afraid of is a moving semi-armoured car with Madd Mugsy's code for sniper/suppressing fire. At first it was amusing that the AI was returning sniper fire, then I realized that half a dozen of them were doing this. Still trying to figure out counter sniper tactics (or beeline to Balime for the x-ray detector). It is improved AI and that can only add to the experience (mostly bunkering down and hoping that the last red shirt killed was the spotter).

Lieutenant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10460]

Wed, 24 August 2005 00:03

DurtyDan

Messages:103
Registered:November 2001
Location: Oregon, USA

@wil473-

I had a problem with the sniping on insane difficulty as well at first. The spotter is usually behind a tree or rock, just within visual range. I was forced to use their tactics in reverse. flank so that you can get a shot behind the cover, then fire blind from out of range. A grunt or howl will be your reward, and someone will then break cover to move up to take his place. Not too bad, just can't use the same tactics that have worked for the last 5 years of this game. Another tactic is to take a merc well behind your covered/prone squad and fire a few rounds. This can flush out some sandbaggers.

Great work mugsy!

Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10461]

Wed, 24 August 2005 00:04

flybyu

Messages:44
Registered:August 2005
Location: Indiana U.S.A

Well I have had no problems with the new release. Got the Proedit working per Khor instructions?

I have no problem dealing with the new AI and snipers. All one needs is good squad tactics.

A hint would be to
1. KIA the scout! GET DOWN!
2. If you have too many scouts or are unable to KIA the scout or scouts fall back fast regroup find good cover GET DOWN! and let them walk into an ambush.
Think real life not game. I have some real life training and experience so that helps me a lot.

Trying to teach my nephews about tactics and cover and this game is a pretty good tool.

I took Drassen in four days game time on insane.

Corporal

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10462]

Wed, 24 August 2005 02:29

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

Sounds like you guys are having fun Smile

So, are snipers enough of a pain in the ass now? Or should I add enemies with ACOG scopes to the list of possible snipers?

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10463]

Wed, 24 August 2005 03:03

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Call me a masochist but I'd prefer that anything we are able to use the enemy can also use. Perhaps if you could link enemy inventories to difficulty levels along with AI advances this would make the game playable to beginners and challenging to veterans. Of course I really don't know how involved the coding would be for such a thing and would be happy if you just made the AI as cunning as possible while allowing enemies to use anything players can.

Playing with you're .exe is really a breath of fresh air to this game. So many of the changes you've made I've wanted since I first really figured out how to play. Awesome Mugs!

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10464]

Wed, 24 August 2005 04:29

Wil473

Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada

Thanks for the advice. I'm not complaining about the AI. Rather face five of these guys instead of 30+ of the old ones. Just have to remember this isn't the JA2 of 1999, that and I should be paying more attention to the terrain.

Just had an idea for that far off future time when multimode weapons will be attempted (no rush, I'm still contemplating moving up from Expert difficulty): there was a cheat code that allowed the swapping of entire weapons and items. I'm thinking that if this method was used, toggle past the autofire and it would swap the held weapon for another, leaving behind the attachments and Mode A ammo as an attachment (consequently it would also have to load Mode B's ammo from one of the four attachment blocks). Mode B could also have its own string of single shot, burst and auto before finally having the toggle back to Mode A. No idea whether this would be easier than the Night Ops team's implementation of dual ammo loads for their OICW.

As an interim step, if it's possible to just swap items while leaving attachments behind and ammo loaded but inert, this could allow for switching a gun's firearm mode to a club/pistol whip/bayonet (using existing crowbar/punch/machete animation).

Lieutenant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10465]

Wed, 24 August 2005 06:27

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Another thing that would need to be externalised is the item picture. There is a feature for this in W4sts weapon editor. With this you can assign new weapon images by just creating a new file number, add the appropriate image with STI edit and make sure the number of you're new file matches the one you assign it in the weapon editor.

I was thinking that it may be possible to have multiple images for weapons with attachments. With this feature you could see the attachments on each image as they are added. Just a thought, and it's certainly way down at the bottom of the wish list.

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10466]

Wed, 24 August 2005 07:08

flybyu

Messages:44
Registered:August 2005
Location: Indiana U.S.A

Hay MM I don

Corporal

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10467]

Wed, 24 August 2005 08:19

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

khor,

Item pic #s will be externalized. I thought about allowing for additional pics for attachments, but it would likely mean that the attachments would need to be completely hard coded, plus you'd need pics for all possible attachment combinations.

flybyu,

The exe, but prices will be externalized.

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10468]

Wed, 24 August 2005 09:34

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

How about other items (especially explosives) values? No weaponmod is really complete without being able to alter explosives and armour values and being able to alter quest items and really everything else would leave us with a completely workable set of tools.
If I'm getting carried away it's only because I firmly believe you can do this and it definately need to be done. When itemsmods are fully moddable there will be no limit to the type of mods that can be done.
Add features like bayonettes and maybe even spear and axe throwing (I'm working on all these animations, will have the crouch/kneeling LAW animation done soon I hope) and almost any type of combat could be represented with this excellent system.

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10469]

Wed, 24 August 2005 11:10

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

Khor,

look a few pages back in this thread to see the list of stuff that can be externalized. Some stuff is hard-coded, but I'll try to push as much as I can out of the code and into the xml files.

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10470]

Wed, 24 August 2005 11:31

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Thanx man.
I forgot about that list but now I have it copied on my desktop to assist me in not asking stupid or redundant questions.

If there is anything I can do to help you externalise this data or assist you in any way just e-mail me and I'll get on it. Bear in mind that I still don't have a compiler but I believe if I could send the .txt docs to you maybe... Anyway just throwing it out there.

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10471]

Wed, 24 August 2005 16:26

Hoochie

Messages:10
Registered:April 2003

This is great stuff, thanks.

Is there a way to disable the chance to hit calculator I see there? Maybe a toggle or a different exe?

Anyway, great work.

Private

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10472]

Wed, 24 August 2005 16:40

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

hoochie,

it's in the options menu: just deselect "show chance to hit on the cursor" Smile

khor, scorpion, everybody:

Good news! Just externalized the items array and got it all working! It was the biggest and most complicated set of data to be externalized, and yet also the most important since it contains all the basic item info, like price, graphic #, weight, etc. I replaced the stupid binary flags for item attributes and replaced them with booleans. If that sounds like nothing to you, then you've probably never experience the "joy" of trying to OR different binary codes in decimal format. So instead of 123462176481, you'll see: 1,1. Plain, simple english Smile

Here's a sample:

Item class is still an ugly binary number, but I can't change it as too many things depend on it in the code. However, you'll never need to OR different item classes together, so I can just make a simple index of all the possible types, and you shouldn't have any problems.

Cheers,

MM

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10473]

Wed, 24 August 2005 16:48

grindedstone

Messages:88
Registered:August 2004

A daft idea on how full auto mode could work, you aim on youre target but insted of making each shot more accurate with each right hand click, maybe it would simple be another round fired off

A tough and possiably unable to do idea based on what i thought full auto could be. After you select the number of rounds you wanna full auto then you can make each shot more accurate with a "second" aiming set

So you would be able to select the number of rounds you wanna fire by adding ap and then add more ap to make each shot more accurate...

Corporal 1st Class

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10474]

Wed, 24 August 2005 17:05

Hoochie

Messages:10
Registered:April 2003

hah, perfect.

cheers.

Private

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10475]

Wed, 24 August 2005 17:36

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

That's great news Mugs!
Can't wait to have alook at it. I've changed all the weapons to fit my mod but because of magazine sizes and other as yet non adjustable features it is very incomplete. Once I get my hands on this I'll start finishing my weaponmod and put this external data through the motions.
So far everything is working without a hitch (although I did have a weird bug where an enemy on a rooftop fell through the roof and into a refridgerator!) and the new weapon/ai features are giving me a new respect for how much potential there is still left in this engine.

Thanx for the excellent work!

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10476]

Wed, 24 August 2005 18:47

Bastage

Messages:94
Registered:December 2004
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

Great mod Mugsy. I have a gun suggestion. The HK MP-7. http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg49-e.htm Great gun, rather it over a P90. I saw it in another mod, can't remember which.

Corporal 1st Class

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10477]

Wed, 24 August 2005 21:21

PoliceLT

Messages:31
Registered:August 2005
Location: Australia, Melbourne

Yay for making simpler code! That has got to be alot of #define-ing and #else-ing, aswell as /backspace-ing.
Next up: #Define-ing 1/0 on Boolean values to True or False... Or Tralse, which would kinda be 2, which might mean "Maybe" or whatever Tralse would mean. It'd probably be for something along the lines of the repairable variable, but maybe some other, more productive time.

Quote:

(although I did have a weird bug where an enemy on a rooftop fell through the roof and into a refridgerator!)

JA2 bug, I had one fall inside a jail cell back in 1.07!

I'm more concerned about earlier today how I shot a guy in the chest and he fell straight inside a stationary booth next to the airport. It's like MOHAA and how the death animations loved to clip through walls!
Still an awesome feature, though.

And I didn't find any bugs worth mentioning.

Private 1st Class

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10478]

Wed, 24 August 2005 23:00

Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Wow.
In all the years I've been playing I never had that happen until now. You're right that it is hardly worth mentioning because it doesn't cheapen the gaming experience one bit. And since it is a regular Ja2 bug, it seems not worth mentioning at all.

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10479]

Wed, 24 August 2005 23:19

Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH

great stuff again muggsy

0

are the possible attachemnts for each gun externalized too? that`d be quite important. you know, we`re used to be able to change quite many values in the weapon editor Khor had referred to earlier. so sorry if we are pushing forward too much

btw what is "unaerodynamic" ?

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10480]

Wed, 24 August 2005 23:54

grindedstone

Messages:88
Registered:August 2004

Would it be possiable to make it so the rod and sprig could be removed but in the process badly damaging/destrying the gun it was on, this would encourage the use of the rod and spring earlier on insead of saving them all up till ther end, just making the general gameplay more exciting.

Corporal 1st Class

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10481]

Thu, 25 August 2005 00:15

PoliceLT

Messages:31
Registered:August 2005
Location: Australia, Melbourne

Quote:

Originally posted by the scorpion:
btw what is "unaerodynamic" ?

Ever threw a toolkit? It's unaerodynamic and won't go past 1 tile.

I find this odd though. O.o

Private 1st Class

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10482]

Thu, 25 August 2005 00:55

Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH

lol is it really for that? that`s fun way to describe it.

btw Muggsy, can you update me about what can be done in terms of new cursors and ambient sounds?

there is another thing i`ve wondered about. There is an unused animation in M_MERC Folder of anims.slf. How hard would it be to actually use that animation? and to use additional/ alternative animations?

( i know, this has probably been discussed earlier)

because the bad ass big merc and the normal big merc share some animations for certain actions, while they use different animations for other actions
because apparently, they share the m_r_run.sti animation while they don`t share the m_walk and m_walk2.sti animations.
it would be cool to split the run anim up as well, having two different animations there

Sergeant Major

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10483]

Thu, 25 August 2005 02:35

Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada

scorpion,

Don't know about those animations. Honestly, I haven't had a chance to go through all that code yet. While I briefly looked at changing cursors and ambient sounds, and now think it's probably doable, I haven't had time to experiment with them... I've been busy externalizing and eliminating binary flags Wink

I only have about 1-2 hours a day to work on this mod due to work and commuting and keeping my wife from complaining too loudly Razz

As for attachments, yes, the list of compatible attachments and guns will be externalized (I think I'll probably do it next). This will mean no more 182 or whatever limitation on attachments. I also plan on moving a lot of the hard coded constants out into xml files. So things like APs to reload, distance to messy death, attachment functionality, etc. will go into the xml. This will mean that you could have, say, three different barrel extenders, each with different range bonuses (or a barrel extender that gives a range bonus and a bonus to hit).

Right now all the attachment functions and compatibilities are hard-coded, and so are the rocket launchers (LAW, RPG). I'm going to try to move as much of the item-specific code out to the XML files as possible, and hopefully, we'll be able to customize at least 80-90% of it (shooting for 100%).

EVERYONE: Please try and think of all the possible functions an attachment can have. While I can make it so that the functions can be moved around and mixed between attachments, the functions themselves still need to be hard coded in. So far there are:

- To-hit bonuses
- Aiming to-hit bonuses
- Range bonuses
- AP reductions
- muzzle flash suppression
- grenade launcher
- silent shots
- (and I probably missed one or two)

I'm also going to try moving all the text from the BRAYDESC.edt and ITEMDESC.edt files into the Items xml. If the item text doesn't need to be loaded from binary files, which aren't easily changeable and resizable, then I think we can break the item limit of 350, and push it out to something more reasonable, like 500-1000, or more. This would allow for a sh*tload of new ammo, attachments, guns, armor, explosives, whatever, you name it.

Keep in mind, however, that this part is just theoretical so far. I haven't yet broken the MAXITEMS barrier. But I'll be sure to post here and make lots of noise if/when I do.

First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10484]

Thu, 25 August 2005 03:08

gmonk

Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

I've been playing this for quite a few hours now and I've got to say it's awesome. Is it my imagination or are the militia way more effective now? I waited for an enemy assault on a couple of maps and they were almost as effective as the mercs. Of course, that'll all change when the elites are prowling.

No bugs and other than an odd graphics glitch when switching between tactical and strategy screens. That glitch only happened once, when I was looking at the inventory. It may be because I have too many items in one area, I seem to recall that creating problems before. (I'm using the 'Drop All' setting, it's a little nuts how many 38s I have)

Thanks for the work to make JA even better, it feels like a new game again. I haven't tried any grenades yet, I'm looking forward to some interesting fights with effective grenades.