| Game world and mapmaking[message #127113]
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Sun, 04 June 2006 08:13 
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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This is mainly a topic for the mapmaker sand those that are generally intersted in maps layout and gameworld design
i am currently revising certain tilesets so for the map designers it is advised not to use generic 2 tileset, cambria hospital adn military town tileset for the moment
another update could affect the sam sites tileset
the reason i chose to update this tilesets rather than making new ones is simplicity, plus i don`t actually overwrite, i just get rid of redundant tiles, like drum_01 or furn_06 that appear more than once
so later on i will send the updated tileset to the mapmakers.
i should also make a list of which maps are definitly ready the way they currently are and which need replacements. there is much left over from ja2 vengeance that could be replaced or not...
i`ll see where it appears most sensible and urgent to make new maps.
plus we can discuss about new tileset additions here. Like the vietnam SOG ones that were mentioned before.
Plus it would be cool to have tilesets resembling arabic climate and architecture (for the south of our map) but this is probably elusive. What could be done is assembling desert tiles plus white walls and such as first step, then wirefence and maybe gastuf elemts from estoni/ demo tilesets
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127116]
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Mon, 05 June 2006 02:45 
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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@Azazel
the TileSetEditor allows mainly one thing: bringing new graphics to the maps.
ja2 maps are organised in tileses. To save memory time and map loading space, most tilesets use a very small portion of the actual graphics and get "filled up" from generic tileset 1 for the rest. There, ja2tse comes in handy, because it allows to add new graphics where the original tileset would load from generic 1
All this data is stored in ja2/data/binarydata/ja2set.dat
many tiles (chekc for instance drum_01.sti or furn_06.sti) appear twice or even three times in the same tilesets where you`d need it only once!
ja2tse allows to add new entries in the tileset instead of using the ones from generic 1 !
how to use:
i guess it is the easiest way to install ja2tse in the folder where your mod is, or, your ja2set.dat (binarydata folder)
open ja2set.dat and look for the tileset you want to edit. For instance today i edited tileset 10 generic 2. generic 2 draws the same tiles from generic 1 twice or even three times.
instead of furn_06.sti i added a file called G2_gens.sti to the generic furniture section.
then i placed these files in the cooresponding tileset folder
ja2/data/tilesets/10/g2_gens.sti and g2_gens.jsd
now in case some maps ave been affected by that change, i will have to redo them partially.
you can also to much bigger thinsg using ja2tse
for instance certain tilesets are nearly obsolete when you use a similar one for the onnly maps that use the tileset
estoni and demo tileset, farm1 and farm 2, coastal and queens prison, swamp 1 and swamp 2 baretrees are like that
like this you would create space for a whole new tileset. Thaks to snap`s coding, in ja2 1.13 we can simply add them. However: that is more complicated to work with and needs every single files to be installed.
@Durty Dan
yes, the UC items have been hacked into the UC editor version. But for the rest it worked fine?
i can do npc and item placements (there will be quest interactioin in this sector)
i hope you don`t mind if certain graphics will be changed in that one tileset later on? Like signs and switches and stuff.
you haev my mail, can send it to me.
i also had a look at most current issue maps and we have plenty that can be overwritten. So new assignements can be just around the corner 
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127120]
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Mon, 05 June 2006 08:50
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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Quote:Originally posted by DurtyDan:
@ scorpion- the tileset (queen's airport) I used in the b13 map does not seem to have the helicopter parts in it. That also explained the weird things appearing on the helicopter pad in game and not in the editor, I believe. Guess I'll have to redo it using another one.
*edit*
Also, I seem to have found another problem I was having with unpacking the map files from maps.slf and using in the ja2beta.exe editor. I was using SLF explore to do it, and the extracted map file doesn't show the helicopter, even when unmodified. When opening Azazel's maps in the editor, it shows the helicopter. :animread: yes i think the best way is to keep the default helicopter since it appears to be a special tile as it is used for a script. You may try to destroy the heli (or damage)in the game and talk to waldo then. according to his script, he should fix it for you if it is damaged but not if it is destroyed (and ask money)
you don`t need to extract the maps at all. The betaeditor loads them from the slf. you make a change, save it and it is in the maps folder then
for instance you open the beateditor, select open file, j9.dat (tixa) make a change, save it as j9 and you`ll have the new file in your maps directory
given that you use the editor in the same directory as the game and all these things
best way of using custom tilesets? what were the problems? For working with the enlarged tileset selction we do for RR it makes sense to work with more than one installs of the beateditor
say, one that uses UC tilesets and one that uses the ones i sent and will send to you
you can also decide to work with UC tilesets primilarily. In that case i`d need to inform you about which ones ja2 rr supports
i`m sorry for assigning the b13 map to you as the first map. With the hardcoded heli stuff and all. We`ll find better maps for you to do, if you still want. From what i saw you like military-themed maps like army bases or weapon stashes and such? is that correct?
there`ll be enough maps like that for us to do
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127124]
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Tue, 06 June 2006 16:08
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 DurtyDan |
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Messages:103
Registered:November 2001
Location: Oregon, USA |
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@ scorpion, G3 request is ready to go. :ok: Once a final tileset is ready, I'll be happy to tweak it. I didn't want to get too carried away with the object placement yet.
I finally got the editor to work, mostly. I still can't get it to properly extract the maps.xlf file. :confused:
I was having many crashes, (Azazel described in another post), when saving, clicking the items or merc tabs, or just setting there. The only version of the editor I have been able to get running is the UC suite provided by Bearpit. I could only get it to work with a UC installation, not patched over any others. Items and saves are finally going OK.
As for tile production, I am not the one to ask. I have no graphics experience (I'm a mechanical systems engineer in RL). But, I have as many suggestions as you want. I have browsed all the tiles you sent, and they represent an inpressive amount of work. :shake:
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Sergeant
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127125]
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Wed, 07 June 2006 00:48
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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so that means you can`t get the custom tilesets to work?
in that case, you`d have to stick with UC ones. particuliarly the custom tilesets i use them with only slight modifications, those sets unedited in UC are not so useful becasue i edited most of them for me
the custom tileset "fortress" is getting shape nicely. It will be a lot of fun and intended for heavy defense. but the question now is can you get custom sets to work?
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127127]
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Wed, 07 June 2006 19:44
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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very good. in that case, i sent you the updated tilesets, 10, 26 and 27
27 offers the most for a military installation or roadblock
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127132]
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Sun, 11 June 2006 09:02
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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@durty dan
i saw your maps, personal feedback will come your way through mail within the next days
what i can tell here is that you can`t use any sort of trigger action on the ground because the 1.13 AI will make a suicide rush through the mines ;-(
i tried to tell them. I really did ;-((
also, i will have to remove some claxon sounds (i want to spare this special sound files for extra effects) and flare mines. If you cover the whole side of a compound with flar emines triggered by trigger or panic trigger, this will be a huge advantage for a player if attacking at daytime
you can use normal sector lighting for such things because a long chain of flare mines takes long to load (players sees a very long endless clock)
plus this allows to specifically set the lights at night (lighting at daytime is an advantage for the one standing in the lght)
again, more feedback in the mail. I liked the g3 and e8 designs a lot, these i am certain we can use, for a8 and b8 i`m currently using some maps maybe from UC... i will have to see about them
looking forward to the other files. Don`t be discouraged by my critizism. I forgot to inform you about the 1.13 AI and their problems with mines and triggers
sorry
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127134]
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Sun, 11 June 2006 19:34
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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yes, it is new to 1.13 version i don`t know what and apparently won`t be fixed in the upcoming release in spite of my permenent miauling
for us mapmakers this means to clean all maps from traps/ mines on the ground ;-(
trigger action is still okay though, as long as the trigger is not on the ground
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127137]
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Tue, 20 June 2006 02:50
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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azazel, i sent you an updated coastal 1 tileset so you can use that one for ports and coasts
@durty dan, azazel
i made some adjustments to your maps and started testing them in the actual game. Some feedback: i prefer the enemies to be a bit away from the map edge so that the turn based combat doesn`t start immediately. Leaves more time and space for tactics
also i try to have minimal cover for, say, 3 third of the enemies so if you send them on a patrol route, maybe have the waypoints behind trees or close to some rocks or such rather then on open ground.
a stationary enemy in the middle of a flashlight is too much of a sitting duck so i changed that one too
real ingame combat will then tell me if i have to revert these changes or not, but that take some time plus we`re still in the making of maps.
BTW Has anyone of you had success altering cliffs? i mean those hills like in mining sectors and such without awkward glitches?
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127140]
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Tue, 20 June 2006 18:25
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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okay, neither have i, i get the same glitch as Az described
teleports: these are especially un-intuitive. Because you have to first enter the map and the coordinates that you want to teleport to
then save the map
only then placing the teleport grid itself, then save again
otherwise all your teleports will lead to a1, gridno 0
for roads, they have to be place each tile after the other and they shouldn`t overlap otherwise you`ll get an error message. If it overlaps, delete a section of the road and place new tiles
i asked about cliffs because i wanted to do a cool map with them but i guess i`ll have to skip that one or do it differently
thx guys
i think we can have new assignements soon. Az, you can help me do the coast around grumm, i`ll send some sectors that i already designed, you would have the unfortunate taks of joining them together
very important sector would be i3, a lot of combat happening there
Dan, you could redesign the maps around custom made g12 map, like e12, f12, g11, maybe g10 too i think i`m using vengeance stuff there that is only a slight edit of the default maps so there we can still do a lot. i`ll write some messages to both of you with more details, plus Dan you`ll get the updated tilesets too
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127141]
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Tue, 20 June 2006 23:17
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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so. i guess you both should have updated tilesets now plus i sent some requests
i`ll try to get another new tileset together but that`s going to take some time
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127143]
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Thu, 29 June 2006 09:40
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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@durty dan
my email provider sucked once again so i post that here:
nice maps, i did some updates to the grumm g2 h2 tilesets and reworked your map in that respect
i added items and placed missing room numbers and such
if you want a new assignement, you could redesign the e11 sector. It`s between e10 and e12 which you both designed anew. plus, e11_a is the weapon stash so you can have some fun there too. That sector has bloodcats
i ingame tested the first two complete maps in arab town and arab city tilesets and everything seems to work fine ingame. I can provide that as well and we can start working on the south part of our game world.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127150]
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Tue, 08 August 2006 05:27
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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guys, some of the new loadscreens are implemented in 800x600 now, i`ll have to do them for the higher res too
alternative endgame is ready and working except for the things left to the coders, and even if the coding don`t work out i can improvise with teleports
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127151]
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Wed, 16 August 2006 19:10
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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az
i was able to load and edit your map this time around. Some feedback: siren traps are bad. Too many locks and lights are bad. Copy-a buidling feature...
...well...
one of the major drawbacks of many mods is that they`re clsuttering every house with locks. A small mod, this can be funny, but in a large scale environment such as ours (and it doesn`t get more large sclae than that) it becomes soon rather dull. Oh, and siren souds are annoyng and dumben down the AI leading them ito light sources so there taboo.
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Sergeant Major
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