Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » JA2 Complete Mods & Sequels » JA2 Renegade Republik » weaponmod discussion
| weaponmod discussion[message #127762]
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Thu, 01 June 2006 20:00 
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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the name says it all
the place to discuss weapon mod(s) for ja2 rr
my idea is to break with vanilla ja2 weapon availability logic. Plus i hope we can work out different weapon mod variations.
i plan on having like 4 or even 5 Arms dealers where scarce hitech equipment or weapons from exotic places can be bought. What spoils this approach is bobby ray becasue everything can be obtained via bobby ray and people can tweak that in option screens
the enemy itself would then have weapons according to their troop type and location. Rioters have submachinguns, shotguns, rifles and occasional AK-47.
Later on when facing enemy army they`ll be better armed and have snipers, machine gunners and grenade launcher guys in their squads
different army units might use different equipment. There is enough room for much variety.
some guns will be scarce, say an NPC might have one, or a trader has one on some occasions
listing supported guns will make sense only later on, so this i will adress later.
i plan on having pistols scarce but useful (small slot, few AP and draw usage, silenceable). officers, snipers and Mecenaries might have them as well as NPC`s.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127770]
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Sat, 03 June 2006 10:43 
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 LegacyOfApathy |
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Messages:101
Registered:September 2004 |
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Dearest The scorpion,
Perhaps Bobby Rays could be shut down for its involvement in illegal activities? 
(Its so easy to get used to Unfinished Businesses's lack of Bobby Rays, and one time hireing fee....)
I don't claim to be a ninja or a mercinary. But I belive that you just can't beat the convience of having a huge amount of ammo (or weapons) shipped to the location of your choice. Especially if it can be done legally, or anomiously.
I mean, if you keep clearing out gun shops, you might just attract a little attention! And, I don't remember well. But I don't think you can purchase an AK-47 in any of the gun shops I've been to. (seen some REALLY nice revolvers though. In the land of Cowboys  . Everythings bigger in Texas.
In DL... I had absolutely no problem paying out the nose for 10 cases of buckshot and 10 cases of pulse rifle ammo (pulse rifles don't exist in a compact, easy to carry rifle form yet, but lets pretend that they do). And, Barret ammo whenever it was availible.
My purchases usually cost over $30,000 or more. But it was sooooo worth it! Whenever I ran low on ammo, I took the helicopter back to the airport to repair and reload\resupply.
In UC. Bobby Rays only seems to sell one clip of Markov or Skorpion ammo at a time.. along with a few other things... I kinda completely gave up on the site at this point. Though I could theoretically order everything that they have each day.. It would take awhile. Man!
Queen.. Prime minister Brenda must be really good at keeping illegal firearms out of the country!
I only once got to Port Kip. And that was with the teleport cheat
Smithy sold Mike's weapon, SA 80 LSW (at a Very reasponable price) and around 13 clips of 5.56 mm ammo. Tony sells a little bit of everything.
The shops seem profoundly useful! However. It kinda seems like 5.56 weapons are the most powerful, and or have the most easily availible ammo.
I think the hard part will be getting there in the first place
***
Gosh. What was I saying? I want large Quantities of ammo, and I don't care what price I have to pay for it!
Except for shooting civillians
oncombatants. Still can't do that. Now stealing.. I might be able to do that!
***
Oh, and if its not too much trouble, could we have barrel extenders in the expansion. pweeese? While I remember at least one quote of someone thinking that barrel extensions are bull****, They are what usually causes me to carry pistols (and other short range weapons) up until the endgame..
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Sergeant
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127771]
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Sat, 03 June 2006 23:15
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| kropotkin |
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Messages:47
Registered:May 2005
Location: lake titicaca |
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I says, only ammo in shops. Guns as reward from battles.
Consider this, what would be more gratifying for the player: buying a high-precision handgun from a dealer (here the money, wow what a rush) OR getting it as a reward from some intermediate boss: blood dripping from my sucking chestwound I stumbled into the storage room and saw...
And, when I'm a merc and going to crawl in the dirt of some jagged countryside, the personal gun I'm taking is a sturdy, 'tightened' magnum revolver, equipped with at least one rail to fit either laser or reflex sight :luckystrike:
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Corporal
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127772]
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Sun, 04 June 2006 00:46
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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the base for damage values has always been the caliber. Then, barrel lenght and game balance play a role
have a look at vanilla ja2
AKs-74u, AK-74 and RPK-74
there is a significant differnece in barrel lenght between these guns and this is very well reflected by range and damage stats. 2 points of difference between each of them. Very well done.
with a much higher variety of guns, the risk is high that only slight differences between them can be implemented.
Pistols are not the best choice in CqC imo becasue they simply lack the firepower of an SMG or a machine pistol.
Pistols would be the choice if you have a sniper or HMG guy of yours interrupting an enemy but has only few AP`s left. So either go and take cover or stop him with a snap shot from your pistol
that would be the idea of a backup weapon. However since there is such a demand from players to make pistols powerful, i am planning on overlooking realms here for the sake of a more fun gameplay.
Having a high number of custom items also makes big inventory slots very valuable. Pistols fit in small slots. Pistols do have realistic and from a game balance point of view sensible advantages which the player will have to learn to use or forget about using pistols
weapon availability will be limited if you mess with the powers to be. Weapon availability will be limited due to the story setting. Weapon availability will depend a lot on weapon progression.
BR spoils this all. So maybe BR will get cut back to size for my mod. There will be many different traders that can take it`s place. The most important weapon delivery is supposed to come from the enemy. This is also a matter of fairness toward the AI
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127773]
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Sun, 04 June 2006 05:35
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| DurtyDan |
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Messages:103
Registered:November 2001
Location: Oregon, USA |
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I like what I am reading here. This is just the kind of direction that this game needs.
I'm not sure how practical this is to implement, but my suggestion would be to have a weapons theme with the enemies that the player is facing. It always seemed silly to have such a random variety of weapons in each patrol. Dragonovs, HK21s, MAC-10s, and G36s shouldn't be mixed in the same patrol. Any organized fighting unit would have common weapons and ammunition types.
So, I suggest that a logical weapon mix should be addressed. Sniper rifles and machineguns should be more of a rarity. For example, a 6-man patrol could have 3 or 4 assault rifles (say AK74), a machine gun(RPK), a leader(AKSU or sidearm), and a small chance for a sniper rifle(SVD). Exceptions for special patrols or sector defensive positions would be acceptable, of course.
(off topic but related)
Also, is there any chance of making a patrol not just all elite, or all redshirts? A 20-man patrol would have an officer, several NCOs, and plenty of grunts.
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Sergeant
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127774]
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Sun, 04 June 2006 06:41
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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weapons are distributed according to progress, enemy type, enemy stats and map files
it is very complicated to arm them like an army squad. the idea is as follows:
in the beginning, the player meets "rioters" and "marauders". These won`t have Army Level equipment and will have their squads not particulairly structurized. They will have various different guns, good example is an IMI Uzi, but also various compact Russian SMG`s like the AEK 919k and maybe shotguns (saiga 12k) and rifles (SKS, Mosin Nagant maybe)
only later on the player faces renegade army units. There, they will meet squads where i try to have this sheme: Most of them use assault rifles, some carbines, some snipers and later LMG`s. Examples are for certain parts of the region (we will not always face the same army) will be AK-47/ AKM/ AK-47s as one of the most common guns, SVD and maybe Zastava sniper rifle as snipers and the first LMG will probably be a degtjarjov RPD.
the other army might use AK-74 and even m16/ m4 m249 shemes for units that took part in the arming and eqquipping programme of the US. This will be mostly garrisons of important strategic sectors.
Of course the more the game advances, the better and more differnet guns the enemy will have. it isn`t realitic but otherwise it will become too easy for the player.
what is sad is that elites hare the same armamant tables than admins and red shirts. However i can hand-place some elites to give them special rare equipment (like a Fal or an Fn Mag)
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127776]
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Mon, 19 June 2006 08:55
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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i`ll be showing some examples of how the weaponmod is going to look like once the next 1.13 release is out. I can`t spoiler their stuff here
plus, don`t get scared by my last posting that i added more guns. It`s not soo many of them. The number of guns dropped in normal combat shouldn`t get too high, as a lot of guns will only be available through traders or NPC`s
plus, the ability to just sell stuff using alt-LMB will allow to easily get rid of all that is "too much"
so what was requested earlier on, that (in middle and later game progression) assault rilfes are the core of the enemy equipment and some snipers and carbines and later LMG`s are slightly more rare will work to a certain extend. The SKS and the SVD sniper rifles will be frequent as well, so it depends also on the story and setting
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127777]
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Tue, 25 July 2006 07:26
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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with the latest release and the unfortunate choice to make the ja2 sniper scope the bigger one and adding the battle scope as a weaker one, many issues have popped out for the weaponmod
counterbalancing obvious isssues: only the rifles with really long ranges will come with a sniper scope by default. SVD will use weaker PSO-1 scope, 7,62 Nato will use battle scopes by default and only from .338 lapua on, the sniper scope can be default
this is because it`s sucky to have rooftop snipers spotting you (or you them) over 3 third of the map but neither sniper being able to hit (due to cover, objects, wrong LOS calculation)
i had a very tedious rencontre with an SR-25 sniper that spotted some of my mercs but couldn`t fire due to cover.. so the game stayed in turnbased forever *yawn*
with the default attachments not overriding in map files placed items anymore, i`m screwed in terms of intelligent sniper placing, so we have to leave it to the game... it sure is a drastic step backwards but it at least improves replayability (not always the same sniper with the same gun in sector xy) and less possibility for the player to exploit "set" snper positions in terms of looting their sniper scopes
what else.. i`ve added some 30 guns, a couple of small effect attachements, and a couple of things to create new items... not very detailed by now
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127778]
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Tue, 25 July 2006 21:38
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| AZAZEL |
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Messages:750
Registered:February 2004 |
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Quote:
i had a very tedious rencontre with an SR-25 sniper that spotted some of my mercs but couldn`t fire due to cover.. so the game stayed in turnbased forever *yawn*
with the default attachments not overriding in map files placed items anymore,I'M SCREWED in terms of intelligent sniper placing[/QB]
That is a serious playability issue!Very annoying.
You're not screwed at all:
A simple and practical solution,that you might even call "brutal" would be to put the big sniper scope availability zero(0), which would allow you perfect control over it.Could be placed manually in maps(with you having control).3-5 of them during the whole campaign would be enough if you ask me(say Alma,Orta,central SAM,some chars met late game...)
Of course every already done map would probably have to be cleaned of any living soul,and soldiers would need to be replaced.With the smaller battle scope
and the flat bonus from reflex scopes,I don't think the player would miss it or need it much,in terms of CTH.What do you think?
Jesus K-rist, another 30 weapons?Hope you'll consider replacing some old ones.The original game has too few of them(in terms of "when I reach Meduna I already have all guns,curiosity is not aroused anymore") but these 1.13 latest versions are an atrocity.:0
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127779]
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Thu, 27 July 2006 00:12
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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i`ve been thinking of other brutal solutions. But think of it, if most midgame sniper rifles come with pso-1 or battle scope by default, there will be only VERY few big sniper scopes in the game (as all guns that could theoretcially get outfitted with a sniper scope will be blocked by battle scope)so Tony/ BR are the only places to get sniper scopes early on
i`m still screwed in mapmaking becasue the only two guns that support the sniper scope currently that are placable in map files are SVD and M24, and both of these suck on long distances...
so i would want to outfit them with battle scope in the map, but i can`t ;-(
plus the battle scope won`t overwrite in-map placed items anymore (bugfix) so if i only place SVD plus bipod it will be only SVD+ bipod
so you see i will only place few long range snipers as the SVD is not quite the tool for very long range sniping
so, sniper scope will be rare. It might also disable any snper rifle expect .338 lapua and upwards to use the big scope, but that`s an even more brutal solution plus it would spoil the few m24 and svd placed with sniper scope
well, some 30 guns added doesn`t mean the enemy drops all 1.13 guns plus my additions...
i strapped tony and BR free from a lot of their weapons. BR doesn`t sell cheap guns with small margin like AK-47s, rather the expensive HK and even SIG stuff
so it doesn`t mean there are tons of equal weapons to chose from. Rather the player has the choice either to buy high-end stuff from BR, buy hunting/ shotgun/ vintage stuff from Tony, or use the local weapon selection the enemy drops (supported by another local gunrunner)
i only overwrote some of the most crappy guns, like some of that calico crap and such... it`s less annoying to make new entries than correct old one through all xml`s
i migth also overwrite some bullshit items that have indexes smaller than 350 so i can use it for items in proedit... but have done so only with few stuff thus far
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127780]
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Sun, 30 July 2006 03:58
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| Kazlor |
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Messages:1
Registered:July 2006
Location: Currently moving. |
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Very intersting thus far. I know it's been noted before, but silencers do not make a weapon silent. If I'm not mistaken, they're generally called suppressors anyway.
As far as weapon mods go, why not decrease the number of available slots or increase them (a USP, for example, a suppressor on the barrel, maybe a reflex sight atop the rails, and a LAM or something similar beneath the barrel)?
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Civilian
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127792]
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Tue, 08 August 2006 05:24
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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@tax
yeah, i implemented something like that but it isn`t yet fully functional. I think i will have to change it, you won`t assault enemy supply convoys but maybe faction supply convoys. The stuff to be looted will be carried by smugglers, mafya goons or whoever will carry these convoys out
@Dead Man
i think people will be fast enough to figure it out, if that would be any necesary or serve any purpose
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127793]
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Tue, 15 August 2006 00:38
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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i`ve implemented a night vision scope. It`s the best option now to switch the scope on your rifle depending on night/ day (or to have different guns for each purpose)
watch out, it`s dangerous to use them! Better use an experienced merc, flash hider/ silencers to avoid enemy interrupts.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127795]
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Wed, 30 August 2006 18:26
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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MWC or CBMWC
calibre based massive weapon customizing
that's the new doctrine over the oldshool weaponbalancing. It means that by using attachments (i added a number of them) you can basicly tune some guns in very different ways.
it's the best way to keep almost every gun interesting given the huge number of guns.
suggestions of further attachements that are doable in the xmls are appreciated
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127797]
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Tue, 12 September 2006 20:57
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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binoculars will allow to see farther and less tunnel vision than a sniper rifle
so you want spotter + sniper? there you have, i only fear the AI can't handle it so risk is i'll keep the binoculars rare
on a different note, is anybody willing to share some info with me concerning ammo types, magazines, guns etc in these calibers:
9mm*21, .300 Win Mag (wa-2000 is in), 7.92 Mauser (M98 is in) 5.8*21 chinese, 5.8*42 chinese, SP-4.
i'd be interested about guns using those calibres, ammo types available (match grade? tracer?) and so on.
i do have the most obvious infos from world.guns.ru and such sites, anything that exceeds that basic info is what i'm looking for
this is cuz i'm currently updating some magazine/ ammo stuff like adding 7.62*54r match grade ammo (will be rare and valuable in the game)thus i could also take care of any other magazine issues while on it
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: weaponmod discussion[message #127801]
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Tue, 19 September 2006 19:07
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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there will be map scenarios where you assault convoys. however these convoys will be static as far as the vehicles are concerned. due to the tank related bugs in 1.13, the tanks there are only tilesets and not real ja2 tanks.
you can use the binoculars to oberserve the enemy some 2-3 turns and then put the binoculars back into inventory (back to real time mode) and sneak into positions in real time mode.
there's one sceanrio with a convoy crossing a bridge. that might be one that you like
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Sergeant Major
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i like the idea of upgraded pistols and "light" weapons.
