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| Re: Jagged Alliance 3 screenshots[message #137371]
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Wed, 02 May 2007 13:48  
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 Strato |
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Messages:18
Registered:April 2007
Location: Budapest, Hungary |
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Techdemo trailer from Bethesda?
You mean the Van Buren video from NMA? That has nothing to do with Bethesda's Fallout 3 under construction. :nono:
[Updated on: Wed, 02 May 2007 13:50] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Jagged Alliance 3 screenshots[message #137630]
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Fri, 04 May 2007 17:48
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| Richard |
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Messages:29
Registered:June 2004
Location: Montr |
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Hi, Lockie, Strato & all.
The JAZZ - JA3 comparison is a joke so far as I am concerned.
First off, Napalm misrepresents the features of JA3. One example, JA3 is totally open ended, on top of being a ramdomizable environment. So, his 20 missions ravings are pulled out of bad faith. It was always clear that JA3 would not be mission linear.
If you know about game design, you know that you need 'hubs' that act as story telling triggers as well as areas with special objectives. This was always in JA games. So, you have these locations and when you do certain things, some world states are changed and it brings a certain progression in how new event types can be triggered. Think Dedrianna's cameo appearances for instance and how it affected her troop quality and movements.
You can have story related given missions and AI generated missions, if you want to call them that. The matter is that what the AI does changes the environment automatically generating new situations that the player and the other factions must react to. We are not going to start listing out the hundreds of sub-material items in there that could be requests for help from characters, back stabbing or information gathering the player may do.
When you have an idea of weight based AI and web grid interactions, you don't freak out on a given number of key missions because you know that they simply represent major key elements or milestones during gameplay and that the world dynamics around this generate sufficient numbers of situations to not have to worry about this. 20 important or key locations is quite sufficient and lots of stuff can happen within those and elsewhere.
I won't go any further on this for the moment, there are ears in the walls.
The 6 man squad is not a fact neither. That was part of the original team design but we changed a number of things and that is one.
The comparison to Alfa is one I would avoid if I were them.
Level size is one thing, good level design is another. Also, just calling areas 'levels' is akin to arcade gaming, not strategy/tactical open ended design.
One main aspect in Jagged Alliance is the use of psychology for character creation and their interactions. It's not just a list of mechanisms, a territory size, or an overblown list of features that may or may not add anything at all to a game.
Adding features for the sake of adding features is not the professional way to go about game design. Everything you add must substantially add to the game, otherwise you are spinning your wheels in mud instead of giving the existing features the polish they deserve.
Anyway, I won't go point by point but lets just say I am impressed that they can now do everything they used to say they could not and more.
All the power to them.
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| Re: Jagged Alliance 3 screenshots[message #137669]
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Fri, 04 May 2007 23:18
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| Richard |
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Messages:29
Registered:June 2004
Location: Montr |
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My pleasure Lockie
Some parts are already far ahead while other, JA specialized, still need work.
We just finished defining the actual feel for the interface and adapting the functionality for the added possibilities.
These things take time if you want to do them right.
It sometimes sounds nice on paper, until you put it together in mock up interface screen and realize there is something wrong, something that does not feel right or comfortable. So, you have to go over it until you feel no pain, or as little as possible at least.
So, about a date, I would rather not talk about dates until I have a solid Alpha version in my hands. This is the trigger actually that had me can JA3D. Don't tell me we are putting something on the shelves in 2 months when I don't even have an Alpha version yet.
On the good side, the team is dedicated and things are looking good. So, hopefully, we can give you a nice surprise earlier than you expect. 
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| Re: Jagged Alliance 3 screenshots[message #148854]
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Tue, 10 July 2007 10:24
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| Panzer76 |
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Messages:3
Registered:July 2007 |
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The paradox of having such a loyal fan base of a old game is that many of them will *never* be happy with any sequel. Because, over the (many) years since the last release, they have all made their own opinion about how it should be made. Some even want a game *exactly* like the old one, only with new storylines, plots, maps etc, down to the 2D isometric gameplay.
Its rather obvious that any developer that listens to these nostalgic people will soon be out of a job. Because
1. Chances are that they wont ever be satisfied, nothign can compare to their imaginary game.
2. The rest of the world has moved forward, and thus there will be no new customers for the game.
For these guys, there will never be any other game than JA2. Too bad for them. The day of the dinosour must end some day.
The developers must ofcos take the best features from the JA series (but what constitues the best features are open for debate ) and modernize it, while adding more value. I guess this would be a news flash for some of you, but no developer cant just count on the limited amount of JA2 fans buying the game. There just arent enough to go around (and no, counting duplicated and inactive members across JA forums, does not give any meaningful number to estimate potential customers), they need *new* blood. And to get the new players hooked, it has to presentable, as in, it does not look like it was made 10 years ago.
Funnily enough, when I started playing JA2, I thought to myself that this game should use an imporved SS engine, and it seems I get my wish fulfilled.
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Civilian
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| Re: Jagged Alliance 3 screenshots[message #148947]
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Tue, 10 July 2007 18:37
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| lockie |
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Messages:3717
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland |
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The paradox of having such a loyal fan base of a old game is that many of them will *never* be happy with any sequel. Because, over the (many) years since the last release, they have all made their own opinion about how it should be made. Some even want a game *exactly* like the old one, only with new storylines, plots, maps etc, down to the 2D isometric gameplay.
yes , so ?
Its rather obvious that any developer that listens to these nostalgic people will soon be out of a job. Because
1. Chances are that they wont ever be satisfied, nothign can compare to their imaginary game.
2. The rest of the world has moved forward, and thus there will be no new customers for the game.
have you seen the mods here? there are loadsa games for "other" experiences , so if i wanted to play a different game , then i would ! the gameplay is all that matters , with updated graphics, weapons etc , all provided by this dedicated community , who needs a realtime,3d engine? it isnt too expensive when will ,scorpion et all can make us new maps and fun gaming so why not sirtek ? neversaw-r-us out .
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| Re: Jagged Alliance 3 screenshots[message #149029]
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Wed, 11 July 2007 10:57
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| Panzer76 |
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Messages:3
Registered:July 2007 |
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lockie
have you seen the mods here? there are loadsa games for "other" experiences , so if i wanted to play a different game , then i would ! the gameplay is all that matters , with updated graphics, weapons etc , all provided by this dedicated community , who needs a realtime,3d engine? it isnt too expensive when will ,scorpion et all can make us new maps and fun gaming so why not sirtek ? neversaw-r-us out .
Yes I have seen the mods, so? It the same players that play JA2 and their mods. Thing is the game must evolve, because staying pretty much like it is (like some of the fans want) is not a economic viable market for a developer. By evolve i mean taking all thats good with JA2 (which is a lot) and merge it with modern technology.
But I dont understand your post, seem to me that you are satsified with JA2 and see no reson for any other game, just more mods. So I guess your happy as long as you get more mods.
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Civilian
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| Re: Jagged Alliance 3 screenshots[message #149164]
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Thu, 12 July 2007 09:27
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| Panzer76 |
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Messages:3
Registered:July 2007 |
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lockiebut if it evolves into another game , it no longer is ja ,was my point . yup im happy with this type of game ,also early xcom , similar gameplay though when it went to apocalypse with new updated graphics , it wasnt as good , in my opinion . we'll agree to differ eh ?
Sure, it just seems strange to me, because if thats your opinion, JA2 will be the end of the line for you.
Somehow, I think a nicely done "conversion" of JA2 to 3d etc will garner your interest anyway  We'll see what happens.
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Civilian
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| Re: Jagged Alliance 3 screenshots[message #149262]
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Fri, 13 July 2007 04:06
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| Jimmious |
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Messages:10
Registered:March 2007
Location: Greece |
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Turning the game to 3D is normal.
Turning the game into an FP - tactical - shooter, now THAT would be horrible wouldn't it?
Wait this reminds me of another game that's in E3... Oblivion wi......Fallout 3
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) but then I am looking from a game creation point of view rather than game player pov.
