The Bears Pit: Maps, Mods and Editors » Increasing melee damage.

Messages:24
Registered:January 2009
Location: Sweden

How do I increase my melee damage?
I know such thing is possible, iv just forgotten how to... :/

Private 1st Class

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205872]

Thu, 08 January 2009 18:01

cougar

Messages:254
Registered:March 2000

If you are using 1.13 edit the MELEE_DAMAGE_MULTIPLIER line in ja2options.ini. Otherwise it is much harder and complicated and I won't imagine I have any idea on where to start.

Master Sergeant

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205876]

Thu, 08 January 2009 18:14

Messages:24
Registered:January 2009
Location: Sweden

That was what i wanted to hear. THX LOT!

Private 1st Class

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205903]

Fri, 09 January 2009 02:58

Messages:1815
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Isn't there a way to edit melee damage of weapons in the .xmls as well?

It sounds like he found what he was looking for but I've always wanted more dynamic melee fighting. Itb could go a long way toward exploring a type of combat that is only given cursory treatment in the game.

Not to mention the modding potential.

Sergeant Major

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205909]

Fri, 09 January 2009 05:35

Headrock

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

The only way to make melee combat more useful would be to rework the interrupt system, and preferably also the noise/stealth system. At the moment, sneaking up on anybody is suicide, even if you're damned good.

Sergeant Major

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205938]

Fri, 09 January 2009 14:51

Messages:24
Registered:January 2009
Location: Sweden

Yeah its a challenge but i think using it at night with NVG with good mercs, the only thing you could improve is the damage of the melee weapons, rather then reworking the whole system.

Private 1st Class

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205982]

Sat, 10 January 2009 03:43

Messages:1815
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

I don't mean unrealistically superimposing melee where there shouldn't be. Sneaking up on someone should be difficult. But in a way you are right that it would involve elaborating on the interrupt system.

I was thinking if there were some way to code in a defensive maneuver (a block rather than just a dodge) we would have the foundation for as good a melee system as someone ever wanted to develop. The problem is now that there are basically only two actions in any melee type engagement, swing or swing and miss (due to an evasive maneuver). A real melee system should also include blocks and an advantage for extended reach like you would get with a bayonet or even a riot stick.

Not having at least these factors means that melee is not even fleshed out at all in this system.

Why have melee in a gun game? I'm glad you asked. The simple answer is because it exists in all conflicts even where guns are used. There are many examples of people hiding behind doorways, snatching a gun from the guy coming in and turning it on his attacker. In the system we currently have the only way to achieve this is to use your whole turn knocking the guy out (which you wouldn't really have to do) then bending down and grabbing the weapon.

But there are so many other very cool uses for close range combat and it really opens the door to a variety of mod settings that are impossible to even begin to realize with the current lack of a real melee system.

For a game with such potential, this is something sorely missing.

Sergeant Major

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205987]

Sat, 10 January 2009 07:25

Messages:2016
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D

Totally agree with ya mate. I would love the melee system to include a block, and a block+counter action. Also the type of attack should define the block, if its a slashing attack (knife, sword, bayonet, etc...) the defender would need to use their weapon to block (causing damage to the weapon), if its unarmed or brass knuckles then the block should be more unarmed oriented etc...

This would mean that melee attacks would need to be able to trigger interupts during its own specific combat allowing for block and block+counter moves.

Just letting some of my ideas fall onto the net Smile

Lieutenant

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205990]

Sat, 10 January 2009 09:46

Messages:1815
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Yea. I wasn't even going to mention wing shun. We must walk before we run. But if blocks/parrys were a part of the system the close range combat system could be built on and I think combat would gain aq new dimension.

But, better than that, we would be able to create a lot more diverse modding environments.

Sergeant Major

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205991]

Sat, 10 January 2009 10:05

Messages:2016
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D

Strange you should mention it as a mate of mine used to train in that martial art.

Blocking and counter-attacking are a needed part of the system, seeing as the interrupt method works for that for guns (to a degree). If it was based on an initiative system (don't know if there is one currently) then you would have an initiative score which is based on level, wisdom, dex, agility, traits, etc...

The resultant score giving a score higher than your opponent would mean you have the initiative for the first action. After that action the scores are calculated again with a penalty of x% or xAP (depending on the calculation) to see who gets the next attack. Certain results will allow for blocking (the attack does damage to the weapon or limited damage to the blocker) and if there is a significant loss by the attacker vs the blocker then an immediate counter attack (melee only and not the martial arts move!) is performed.

TBH I have never been good with Algebra or formulae but if this could be implemented then someone may even feel like adding the Sword and martial attacks into the missing sections Wink

Though having looked at the Martial Arts attack I find it is far too complicated for its own good. Making a smaller one that executes faster would definitely be an improvement (after all its supposed to be faster and deadlier than a normal punch or kick).

Plus if this is added in it would make adding the WH40K stuff to the game that much more feasible seeing as Melee combat is prevalent due to the high armour values.

Lieutenant

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205993]

Sat, 10 January 2009 10:51

Messages:1815
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Yes, there would have to be some cumulative (average) use of several stats to really make it 'organic' to the system but there is already a roughed out formula for this.

But even if there wasn't, having the ability to either block or counter attack within the melee attack is not present in the system. This would need to be for any type of melee combat to be accurately depicted in the system.

Remember, this isn't just some lofty, wing chun principle. Block/counter attack is a fact of life.

So if we do not have the ability to at least block, what do we really have in a melee system?

Sergeant Major

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #205998]

Sat, 10 January 2009 12:17

Messages:2016
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D

Of course it needs to be for all melee types Smile

Perhaps dependent on the results of the formula you either:
a) get hit for full damage
b) block for minimal damage
c) block/dodge for no damage (whichever is applicable)
d) block/dodge & counter-attack

This wouldn't be hard to do with the amount of stats available in the system (and if its already been 'roughed out' even better Smile

)

The blocks and dodge's would need to call different anims depending on the equipped weapon of the blocker and attacker.
So dodge is generic, no probs.
Short blade attack block can be with bare hands (unlikely scenario) or with equipped gun (more likely)(only happens with 2 handed weapons and larger).
Long blade attack same as short blade attack.
Unarmed attack can be blocked with either.

So a couple of new anims are necessary Smile

Lieutenant

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #206005]

Sat, 10 January 2009 14:42

Messages:24
Registered:January 2009
Location: Sweden

Damn guys you talk like you want to change the whole melee system including the interrupt system, maybe changing the system instead of rebuilding is most wisest. My proposal is:

Private 1st Class

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #206012]

Sat, 10 January 2009 15:26

Messages:2016
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D

There should be a small CTH bonus for a stealthy attack, with a large Crit chance bonus. But to get off a 100% stealth melee attack is a hard thing to do.

And yes the system needs upgrading. The basics are there but it's designed for shooting not melee. A couple of extra steps are needed for good melee combat Very Happy

Lieutenant

Re: Increasing melee damage.[message #206046]

Sat, 10 January 2009 20:36

Messages:1815
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

I think there already are increases for at least critical hits when attacking stealthily. This is actually something that might be able to be taken down a peg or two once a more comprehensive system was enabled.

Have you ever used throwing knives on an unsuspecting target? The results are often devastating.

And, of course a few new animations would be necessary. But without any work being done to develop ideas like these I am likely to lose them just like I did a few others. I think I am a little more careful than I used to be (since I now have a slave drive to archive the important stuff on) but it really sucks to even have animations sitting on your hard drive for years doing nothing because the necessary code to make them function does not exist.