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Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209080]

Fri, 20 February 2009 04:01

jkjkhardcore is currently offline

Messages:24
Registered:February 2008
Location: new york usa

I think I hate the complications, as I just started with it and 3 day packs dont go with the back pack. I need tims gear it seems that my IMPs have.
I do think it's cool and more realistic, so as much as I hate the new inventory system I play with it on.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209091]

Fri, 20 February 2009 12:38

orko_oskar is currently offline

Messages:72
Registered:April 2007
Location: Sweden

Love

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Corporal

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209095]

Fri, 20 February 2009 14:27

Kaerar is currently offline

Messages:2016
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D

jkjkhardcore, there is a definite learning curve to the NIV system. However as most here have found (with a few exceptions) it is better laid out and easy to use. If you know what you are looking for and don't mind taking the time to equip them properly that is Wink

Wink

I play with both styles as I have to test both for my GUI. I prefer the NIV, but sometimes its fun to go back to old style for nostalgic value.

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Lieutenant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209109]

Fri, 20 February 2009 20:20

Messages:3
Registered:December 2008
Location: Denmark

I always hated the old system for being too simple and too restrictive, I love the NIV in general.

But agreed, there is a learning curve, and in the early game it can be a bother, when you cant find the proper LBEs you want. But later on, when you can cutomize each merc according to what role they fill, NIV becomes a vast improvement over the old system.

I do have a single gripe - weight, in the old system it was often space preventing mercs from carrying needed gear, in NIV its always weight later on (at least for me). This is partly because you can have extra pockets, and partly because the LBE gear adds weight in itself.

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Civilian

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209121]

Sat, 21 February 2009 00:25

Burzmali is currently offline

Messages:248
Registered:March 2007
Location: Estonia

only time i tried NIV - and, yes, i played it to the end - it reminded me the old JA1. as: where to get the damn backpacks. must say that when i discovered the editor for JA1, i always "gave" 5-slot backpacks to the whole team. did not consider it cheating even.
in real life you can easily stuff some assault riffle magazines and/or grenades into gas mask bag and so on. so i definitely do not love NIV.

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209129]

Sat, 21 February 2009 07:12

Kaerar is currently offline

Messages:2016
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D

I never have a problem with backpacks or LBE items (unless its that really slow drop progression). Just cos the system isn't perfect doesn't mean its not and improvement over the standard. It can be frustrating not being able to put that 5.56mag in the canteen slot, but then it has to work with an old style coding system. I'm sure with more modular engine a better system could have been devised, but it still makes the original look outdated.

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Lieutenant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209136]

Sat, 21 February 2009 12:11

AZAZEL is currently offline

Messages:750
Registered:February 2004

Boring. Futile.

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First Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209137]

Sat, 21 February 2009 12:13

Messages:254
Registered:March 2000

Love it, wouldn't go back.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209138]

Sat, 21 February 2009 12:53

lockie is currently offline

Messages:3709
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland

I'm in favour now , didn't used to be .

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Captain

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209146]

Sat, 21 February 2009 15:07

El_slapper is currently offline

Messages:31
Registered:March 2001
Location: Taverny, France

Love. You have to think. That's what the game is about : thinking.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209149]

Sat, 21 February 2009 19:35

Starwalker is currently offline

Messages:758
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany

Burzmali

in real life you can easily stuff some assault riffle magazines and/or grenades into gas mask bag and so on.

You can do that as well in NIV, i.e. you can put ammo or grenades into the medium general pocket (which is our gasmask pocket).

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First Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209150]

Sat, 21 February 2009 19:36

Starwalker is currently offline

Messages:758
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany

AZAZEL

Boring. Futile.

Even more boring than the old inventory?

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First Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209151]

Sat, 21 February 2009 20:00

Arquebus is currently offline

Messages:68
Registered:June 2008
Location: Oslo Norway

LOVE
but should be easier to get the good stuff
Ira could knit it while she trains militia

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Corporal

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209154]

Sat, 21 February 2009 22:09

zilpin is currently offline

Messages:63
Registered:October 2007

Neither love nor hate. I would have been happy with simple container items giving you small/medium/large pockets.

So over engineered. Items enforcing complicated rules about what I can & can't put in them.
Hmm, must have been designed by Germans.

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Corporal

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209155]

Sat, 21 February 2009 22:10

dbonar is currently offline

Messages:47
Registered:June 2006

Like. I can't love it since it adds extra micromanagement at the beginning of the game when I already find myself fiddling around with laadouts.

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Corporal

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209160]

Sun, 22 February 2009 01:22

Messages:244
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA

Zilpin said it all.

And Starwalker keeps busy changing items almost daily.

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209164]

Sun, 22 February 2009 03:47

Khor1255 is currently offline

Messages:1815
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Good ideas but not executed correctly and for the additional hassle (especially for modders) not worth the 'reward'. Definitely not worth making newer maps completely incompatible with pre 2085 maps.

In fact, these developments have almost completely erased any joy I've got from building for the game. So I'd have to say that overall I am not a fan.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209168]

Sun, 22 February 2009 09:53

Starwalker is currently offline

Messages:758
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany

zilpin

So over engineered. Items enforcing complicated rules about what I can & can't put in them.
Hmm, must have been designed by Germans.

German-Israeli-Cooperation Wink

Wink

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First Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209169]

Sun, 22 February 2009 10:52

Kaerar is currently offline

Messages:2016
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D

Starwalker

German-Israeli-Cooperation

Since when did the Germans and the Israeli's work together Wink

Wink

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Lieutenant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209170]

Sun, 22 February 2009 11:40

Starwalker is currently offline

Messages:758
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany

Khor1255

Good ideas but not executed correctly and for the additional hassle (especially for modders) not worth the 'reward'. Definitely not worth making newer maps completely incompatible with pre 2085 maps.

In fact, these developments have almost completely erased any joy I've got from building for the game. So I'd have to say that overall I am not a fan.

Are you confusing SCC with NIV? SCC could have been done for the old inventory as well, without NIV, and NIV could have been done without SCC (it would just have needed further restrictions, which we would have had to explain with 'game engine limitations').

It was just that SCC could be done while we were at work with inventory stuff anyway.

SCC allows the stacking of items with attachments, something that was not possible before without losing some or all attachments.

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First Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209176]

Sun, 22 February 2009 14:35

Messages:24
Registered:January 2009
Location: Sweden

What isn't to love about about the improved inventory... now it gives a feel of realism. AWSOME!

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Private 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209184]

Sun, 22 February 2009 15:57

Watchman is currently offline

Messages:101
Registered:August 2008
Location: Philippines

It's cool. Problem is I just plain suck using NIV. I went through 3 games with it and I still can't really figure it out.

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Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209205]

Sun, 22 February 2009 21:37

Requiem is currently offline

Messages:93
Registered:February 2007

I love it, it's a refreshing change and adds a whole new level to the game. Most game inventories boil down to either a list that you can scroll through or a large box divided by a grid. With inventory management resembling little more than a game of tetris. NIV really stands out from the crowd.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209211]

Sun, 22 February 2009 23:40

Khor1255 is currently offline

Messages:1815
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

@ Starwalker

I thought we already cleared this up? Do you enjoy resurrecting old dogs?

Yes, the SCC is primarily what I am not happy with and this is mainly because I do a lot more modding than playing and the SCC has screwed mapping even making it impossible to load maps made with it's versions to versions that predate the scc.
Since there is no plan to build a modding platform from a version that predates the scc (which the niv is built on) makers of large scale mods are stuck in the very unsatisfying position of having to trust a map editor that does not even get avatar placement right.
The workarounds for this have been somewhat helpful but not nearly a real solution to why this problem happened in the first place.

So you either have to map from a pre scc version then convert it all over (before being able to test some of the mapping xml changes you may want because they do not exist in a trustable pre scc version) or build from a version with known serious mapping problems and who knows what else (since just about every serious modder has abandoned the 2085+ versions.

But we already spoke about this months ago and the same things were said. So the real question is am I refreshing your memory here or simply dispelling your attempt at ridiculing me for daring to question the almighty niv bullshit?

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Sergeant Major

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209215]

Mon, 23 February 2009 00:30

Burzmali is currently offline

Messages:248
Registered:March 2007
Location: Estonia

wanted to add that i'm really, really grateful to all modders who are making the world of JA more interesting and amazing. :bow:

just that i'd prefer to take my old bag and my old AKM and then start a new adventure, rather than try how tramping the good old paths of Arulco feels like with new vest, more ergonomic smoke grenades and some uber-rifle with self-adjusting bipod :waving:

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209231]

Mon, 23 February 2009 09:36

Starwalker is currently offline

Messages:758
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany

Khor1255

@ Starwalker

I thought we already cleared this up? Do you enjoy resurrecting old dogs?
[...]
But we already spoke about this months ago and the same things were said. So the real question is am I refreshing your memory here or simply dispelling your attempt at ridiculing me for daring to question the almighty niv bullshit?

Well, you resurrected it. And you make NIV look bad for something /else/ you have a problem with.

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First Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209249]

Mon, 23 February 2009 15:23

Majek is currently offline

Messages:431
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia

I don't really care about it. I do like the vehicle inventory though.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #209251]

Mon, 23 February 2009 15:31

jpg is currently offline

Messages:44
Registered:January 2009
Location: north of Paris, France

I love the NIV. I needed some time to get used to it, the beginning was rather frustating with only 3days packs and LBE I wasn't able to carry as much as in classic JA2. Then I found ARUCs and and combat vests....
What I love in this game is upgrading my team: more experienced mercs, better waepons.... the NIV openned a new field for improving my small army.

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Corporal

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230563]

Fri, 07 August 2009 11:56

sorensen721 is currently offline

Messages:8
Registered:July 2009

New inv is great.
With the right LBE gear, you can carry more things afaik, and things look more organised. As a side effect you can spend ages just outfitting your mercs with stuffs (esp if Drop All is on Razz

Razz

) ARUCs = the best thing since sliced bread in JA2.

[Updated on: Fri, 07 August 2009 12:05] by Moderator

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Private

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230564]

Fri, 07 August 2009 12:03

nollan is currently offline

Messages:106
Registered:July 2006
Location: Le Su

I started a new game recently with the NIV just to try (I'm a bit conservative) and I thought it was pretty cool up until the point where my IMP just couldn't climb that pathetic little fence during a night ambush. When I realized it wasn't a bug and that he was so severly handicapped by that goddamn back pack I started over with the old inventory.

By the way, I like the term "Bergen" better. Especially if it comes from a mumbling scot.

[Updated on: Fri, 07 August 2009 12:08] by Moderator

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Sergeant

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230565]

Fri, 07 August 2009 12:32

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

love, though I have to restrain myself to prevent excessive micromanagement.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230676]

Sun, 09 August 2009 19:05

worg is currently offline

Messages:17
Registered:August 2009
Location: Minnesota

Like. Some of the weights need adjusting.

The internecine squabbling betwixt some of the older modders on these forums is what I loathe.

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Private

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230677]

Sun, 09 August 2009 19:08

Slax is currently offline

Messages:1403
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...

Delicious customization. Love is in the air.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230678]

Sun, 09 August 2009 19:16

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

Though I'd love to have a screen with which to manage the inventories of my whole squad at once...and some element of automatisation; say for switching from one pre-defined setup to another.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230698]

Mon, 10 August 2009 00:18

Never Darktide is currently offline

Messages:88
Registered:July 2009

I like it, but I personally never use backpacks except on my non-combat personnel (i.e. Gasket). What a hinderance. Good thing we've got combat packs!

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230702]

Mon, 10 August 2009 00:40

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

I usually give a backpack (TIMS, with combat pack (and some more filled combat packs in the backpack (yeah, like this (box in a box, hurrr!)))) to my artillery (read: mortar users).

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230704]

Mon, 10 August 2009 01:06

sorensen721 is currently offline

Messages:8
Registered:July 2009

You can press Shift B to drop all traveling backpacks for all mercs in the sector (before combat starts) then Press Ctrl Shift F to pickup all dropped packs, sort everything in sector, and unload all guns and attachmnets on the ground.

The last 2 actions for Ctrl Shift F can be modified in the INI file

Edit: thereafter, bring one merc to a secluded spot, press Shift M to put everything in sector to where the merc is standing .. less clutter Wink

Wink

[Updated on: Mon, 10 August 2009 01:07] by Moderator

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Private

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230707]

Mon, 10 August 2009 03:39

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

Now THAT is cool. Didn't know, but love it now Very Happy

Very Happy

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #230714]

Mon, 10 August 2009 06:49

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

I don't know if I LOVE it, but I'm pretty proud of it.

BTW German-Israeli cooperation brings good things. Even though it's one scary-assed concept. ;D

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Sergeant Major

Re: Vote Love hate new inventory.[message #233184]

Mon, 14 September 2009 12:59

bismuthdrummer is currently offline

Messages:18
Registered:August 2009
Location: North Dakota, USA

I shied away from the first I saw of it... being a vanilla gamer, the new slots didn't make much sense to me. Until I actually *tried* to figure it out. Then I found that the system, in itself, is downright intuitive.

Is it fair to expect all the slots to be perfect? Perhaps if this is integrated into the SMP, we can expect tweaking and fixes. As it stands, the NIV bears a lot more logistical sense than the OIV. You can't criticize the LBE's lack of realism and claim that playing without LBE is more realistic.

Does this mod enhance the gameplay for everyone? I would say probably not; if you are not the micromanagment-styled player, the system is rather tedious and irritating. Balancing LBE weight versus carriage capacity and deciding which LBE is best for each merc becomes a chore.

All in all, I'd say it's an exemplary mod. In a game where micromanagement is common and often key, it brings such management (and the associated realism) to a whole new level. I'm one of those "tried it and never looked back" players.

Plus, the pictures it brings to mind are much more vivid. "Okay, I've got two clips of 5.56x54mm in this vest, a couple on a legstrap, and six more in my backpack..." I'm sure some players here could give a more JA2-fluent example.

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Private

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