| How to use smoke grenades?[message #240182]
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Thu, 17 December 2009 00:23 
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 Dougster |
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Messages:27
Registered:August 2004
Location: Chatting with Hans |
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I've played many games of JA2 over the years, but I've never mastered the smoke grenade. I find them all the time and end up with tons of them. The enemy seems to hurl them at you just like it was a frag grenade, but my understanding was that smoke grenades were supposed to give you concealment. For instance to get close to a tank, you theoretically would want to run up to it through smoke so it couldn't see you.
Except I've never been able to make this work. All that seems to happen is if I am in the smoke then I can't see anything, and the enemy still manages to shoot me.
Maybe this is fixed in 1.13? I seem like I can't hit targets cloaked in a smoke cloud anymore. What do you do, drop a smoke grenade at your feet when you are in trouble and then make a hasty retreat? Throw it at the enemy?
I'm just curious about how to use these ubiquitous things properly... maybe I could improve my ability to defeat and disgrace the enemies!
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: How to use smoke grenades?[message #246591]
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Wed, 10 March 2010 07:47 
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| usrbid |
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Messages:1502
Registered:December 2008 |
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Quote:if there was some kind of hidden penalty, and if the penalty was to represent "stinging eyes" from smoke and if the gas mask would help for example
As far as I know smoke does not impair the soldier directly, only indirectly by providing a cover penalty to the chance to hit.
You can test by using GABBI cheats and running a test battle. I usually teleport to Drassen airport, clear it of enemies with Alt+O, give me cheat money, buy stuff at BR, wait until it arrives, and then attack Drassen center to test stuff.
Quote:does concealment count on decreasing you chances of getting hit if you're standing directly on the tile or is only if it's place between you and the shooter
From my play experience standing in a smoke tile does already provide cover penalty to chance to hit, meaning the enemy is at the edge of the smoke cloud in a tile with smoke and there are no other smoke tiles between him and me. However this is my game experience only, I haven't checked this in the code.
So for example when there are two enemies, one standing outside the smoke cloud, one just one tile in the smoke cloud, both have the same distance, my merc may miss the guy in the smoke while they hit the guy not in the smoke. This situation happens actually frequently in night combat as enemies tend to cluster in groups.
Quote:I know I'm rambling on ... I really want to use smoke to perform assaults in daytime open field maps (like the "desert" sectors in vanilla)and wanted to know if this was possible without taking lots of damage/dying
Rambling is ok, this is what the forum is for, to talk and ask questions.
To answer your question, smoke is *not* like night, smoke is like gras. (I sound like a martial arts instructor) 
To get a noticable effect in game you will probably have to throw a lot of smoke grenades, like maybe a dozen or so, talking about your desert day attack scenario.
What I mean by "gras and not night" is, that an elite (in Vanilla they are really, really good) probably has high stats, meaning that high stats *can* overcome cover chance to hit penalties, in turn meaning they may be able to shoot you in the smoke, makes sense?
All the red shirt goons will miss, but elites may be able to hit you every other shot. Also they can throw grenades and hurt you that way.
Night is completely different, this is because the game is not allowed to target anything it cannot see. Unless your gun flash gives away your position or someone sees you and acts as a spotter. The game cannot just target a square (like you can).
For example if you kill everyone who sees you at night, the game has no way of ever shooting at you. This is assuming you move back 1-2 tiles due to your gun flash and so on. If you can maintain an enemy free circle around your team at night, a safe zone, there is simply no way for the game to harm your team.
For example the enemies cannot shoot mortars, launch rockets, throw grenades etc. into random tiles just to try to injure your team, the game always needs a valid reason to target a tile, at least this is my understanding.
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| Re: How to use smoke grenades?[message #246663]
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Wed, 10 March 2010 20:46
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DieterQuote:if there was some kind of hidden penalty, and if the penalty was to represent "stinging eyes" from smoke and if the gas mask would help for example
As far as I know smoke does not impair the soldier directly, only indirectly by providing a cover penalty to the chance to hit.
I remember in an older version where smoke actually caused -1 AP a turn.
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| Re: How to use smoke grenades?[message #269083]
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Wed, 29 December 2010 14:08
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| Buns |
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Messages:655
Registered:September 2010 |
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nollanPlease be advised that according to Murphy's Law the only guy in your squad carrying a smoke will be the very same that's unconscious Yes, exactly (by the same law your medic will be the first one to be wounded). In my team each merc is carrying one smoke grenade. These are indeed used to give seriously woundeds shelter.
Theoretically they can also be used offensiv to cover your approach at daytime, but I wouldn't waste APs for throwing smoke grenades during assaults. Apart from the smoke taking a few turns to cover a larger region, I would always prefer an unobscured line of sight on the enemy; use surpressive fire instead.
Mustard gas and TG can do the same job, but have the downside that your mercs, all militia around, as well as the civs, need to have gas masks. Well, there is one who by guarantee is wearing a mask when you start gasing the sector: that's the enemy. In general you shouldn't burden yourself with those toys, and also shouldn't bother with the shell or 40mm versions of mustard gas and tear gas.
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First Sergeant
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| Re: How to use smoke grenades?[message #269293]
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Mon, 03 January 2011 16:34
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Logistericwell - i toned that down, as it's sh*t as hell; if grenades where so easy to trigger no army'd use them
anfortunately thre's just a range from 0 to 10 and most nades have a volatility of 1 (just a few have two) - we need better finetuning for that
Yes. When one throws a grenade, they are almost guaranteed to trigger another chanin of explosions.
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