| Demo officially confirmed[message #297358]
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Fri, 27 January 2012 22:20 
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| Sam Hotte |
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Messages:1965
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany |
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UPDATE:
http://boards.jaggedalliance.com/index.php?/topic/390-demo/
Yes. The Demo will be released via Steam in first place.
Yes. There will be Demo without Steam in the future.
Yes. The Demo is already in the hands of the Steam-Team and only waiting to get unlocked.
There definitely will be a demo of BiA:
http://boards.jaggedalliance.com/index.php?/topic/390-demo/
If i got the whole thread right, the demo will go live:
1. this weekend
2. only available through steam (at least at the beginning)
FYI.
[Updated on: Sat, 28 January 2012 20:26] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Demo released[message #297581]
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Wed, 01 February 2012 20:37 
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| LCJr. |
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Messages:83
Registered:November 2001 |
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April 1st would have been a much better release date.
I've only had time for quick peek so only a few comments until I can play the tutorial and try the mission.
No fog of war. Not seeing an option to customize controls.
One minor thing I'm curious about is the weapon names. They're recycled the descriptions from JA2 but some of them have fake names like Klock 17 and Druganov. Lame attempt at humor?
[Updated on: Wed, 01 February 2012 20:43] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Demo released[message #297582]
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Wed, 01 February 2012 20:48
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 DepressivesBrot |
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Messages:3651
Registered:July 2009 |
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So I guess this is as good a thread as any to post some impressions of the demo:
1) The camera controls are atrocious. Who decided that you need two different keys on your keyboard for vertical and horizontal rotation? Every decent game uses one key for full rotation, preferably on the mouse.
2) It's easy. I mean, it's ridiculously easy. And I'm by far not the best JA2 player around here. I read this statement by that micha dude while downloading:Quote:WARNING: The demo is REALLY, I mean REAAALLLY, hard. The Level included is on maximum level of units. And all I could think while playing was: Are you kidding me?
No FoW means exactly what we thought it would - it's only a matter of patience to get the drop on every enemy on the map before he can react, then kill the 3 or 4 companions that rush to investigate - and who pose absolutely no surprise when they arrive.
There are moments that look difficult, but it's the frustrating kind of fake-difficulty that sets in when you can't target an enemy despite clear LoS and perfect hit chance for both your merc and him (the roof decided to stay on because the building wasn't 'officially' scouted - only some merc looking inside the window and seeing the enemy and the enemy looking out - yes, I tried the toggle roof key, more than once). Or the auto pause not exactly triggering when you would expect it to despite ticking all events in the options.
3)And even if someone gets shot up - so what. Patch him up and he's as good as new. I didn't notice any detrimental effects to their performance when every JA merc in that situation wouldn't be good for anything more demanding than sitting around.
4)Explosives: There's exactly one predefined detonation spot on the demo map - it was inside the room where the - for me - last enemy was hiding. And I'd have loved to blow some walls earlier in that level to get at room campers.
5)The demo doesn't include the strategic layer and only tutorial + one sector, so I can't say anything about the missing sector inventory. The 'exchange window' is hideous though - why can I only exchange stuff in the 'carrying' inventory and not - say - the gun in my hands? Why don't they just open two complete merc inventories? This is b******t.
6)And finally, P&Go:
It's ok ... it's not Jagged Alliance anymore, but it's an ok system, somewhat refined compared to the SPM of 7.62 and the timeline is actually somewhat useful, at least for keeping track of orders. Didn't encounter any need for synchronized actions.
Guess that's it for now, enough ranting. The demo delivered exactly what I expected and now they can shove all their 'play it before you criticize' slogans up a place-where-no-sun-shines. The critics found in this forum so far are well founded in reality.
Edit to answer LCJr.:
LCJr.One minor thing I'm curious about is the weapon names. They're recycled the descriptions from JA2 but some of them have fake names like Klock 17 and Druganov. Lame attempt at humor? Appears to be a typical case of AKA47. For a gun nut, it's another of those minor annoyances but if the data is accessible in any way, the first mod is bound to be corrected weapon names 
[Updated on: Wed, 01 February 2012 21:45] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Demo released[message #297583]
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Wed, 01 February 2012 21:11
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| Max_for_Hire |
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Messages:28
Registered:March 2009 |
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Thanx for your input Brot.
I watched the latest gameplay Vid, and still wanted to like it,
and yet it still didn't clock with me!
Saw the insta-heal on the vid and it's obvious that this takes away a important tactical component'!
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Demo released[message #297585]
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Wed, 01 February 2012 22:47
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| LCJr. |
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Messages:83
Registered:November 2001 |
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OK, demo down. Yup, controls suck. Just from playing the tutorial I'm wondering what is left of the strategic layer? Healing literally only takes a few seconds and so do repairs. Is training militia instant too?
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Demo released[message #297588]
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Wed, 01 February 2012 23:12
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| LCJr. |
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Messages:83
Registered:November 2001 |
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Geez. Any word on if the other stuff like hiring mercs and ordering from BR's is instant too?
On the plus side it was nice them to release the demo now and give folks a chance to cancel their pre-orders:)
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Demo released[message #297603]
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Thu, 02 February 2012 04:03
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| LCJr. |
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Messages:83
Registered:November 2001 |
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OK, did the Orta mission. Brot nailed it. Without the fog of war there's no challenge, no surprises. If you've played Diablo and it's ilk you've learned all the tactics you need for this game. Pick off the stragglers and avoid bringing a big mob down on you.
Quote:There are moments that look difficult, but it's the frustrating kind of fake-difficulty that sets in when you can't target an enemy despite clear LoS and perfect hit chance for both your merc and him (the roof decided to stay on because the building wasn't 'officially' scouted - only some merc looking inside the window and seeing the enemy and the enemy looking out - yes, I tried the toggle roof key, more than once).
It's not just the roofs, there doesn't seem to be proper occlusion. I was having to dick with the camera just because the target was under a tree or a porch roof. Kept getting the impossible shot until I finally managed to get the camera where the target wasn't obscured from the camera. Or put that another way targeting isn't dependent on your mercs LOS but on whether you can get a clear view with the camera. Camera doesn't tilt either does it? Or at least wasn't mentioned in the tutorial.
In all honesty wasn't expecting this game to be good but it's actually worse than my expectations. I'd even rate Hired Guns above this game based on the demo.
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Demo released[message #297615]
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Thu, 02 February 2012 11:08
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| Fozzie |
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Messages:183
Registered:April 2010
Location: Germany |
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I can wholeheartedly agree about the controls, they're a mess. What's bugging me most is that you virtually can't see jacksh*t! You can either see your merc(s) or the enemie(s) and you can never tell from where shoots are fired and who fired them. You have to keep hitting pause to bring up the "orders bar" and see which merc still has a fire order and which hasn't cause you rather keep the enemies in sight. So when they're not hurt, you don't know whether your merc missed or hasn't fired a shot yet or maybe already has fired all of them. That of course is all the worse the more mercs you ordered to fire at the same target. You really don't feel like you're in control of anything cause you mostly have no idea what's going on. Especially since the vision cones of your own mercs are rarely displayed so you have to wildly guess whether your position is favourable or not. Being shot through "soft" barriers (like the camouflage net on the hut in the south) but not being able to shoot back for no apparent reason is another oddity that came up.
The overall feedback about what's going on and how the situation is set up is basically non-existent. Those visibility and noise meters next to the portraits aren't helpful at all, they're more of a distraction than anything else.
And placing the target cursor can take ages, especially when youre trying to hit someone in the head. You often have to completely zoom in on the target to even see the proper tooltip turn up.
That reminds me: did anyone of you notice any "side effects" about hitting the different body parts? I tried shooting the legs of assaulting enemies over and over but nobody ever fell down or dropped his weapon when hit on the torso, even with the shotgun.
Not being able to "jump" the view on the minimap is also annoying. And there are yet other minor quirks in the interface, like when you set one merc to burst mode but then decide not to and switch back to single. It took me a couple of tries to realize that the (paused) game then does not merely "cancel" the burst mode switch but instead occupies the merc several seconds with switching the firing mode to burst and back again when unpaused.
Or that there's no success prediction on healing actions when you use a medkit/syringe on another merc's portrait, which is highly advisable, though, cause it's not easy to target them in the main view.
Also, why is there no "select all" button?! Maybe there's a hotkey for that, but as far as I remember that wasn't mentioned in the tutorial.
Oh, and anything short of an assault rifle seems to be completely superfluous in the demo sector. Take Fidel with his puny MP. When he was sitting next to the others, while Magic had "sure hit" on the head to an enemy who had closed in considerably, and even Danny with the shotgun had "likely hit" to the body, Fidel had "no chance" all around. But well, once you have Lynx switch to the (haha) Druganov - for which, thankfully, is a crapload of ammo lying around - his rifle is up for grabs, anyway.
All in all, I'm really disappointed by that demo. I thought I'd merely have to arrange myself with a RTwP system (that's hard enough), but to me, the hideously handled controls and interface make that nigh unplayable.
But hey, I tried. So like DepriBrot I at least get the satisfaction of being able to safely say "I told you so" without people arguing that I shouldn't condemn something before I had a chance to try it.
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Staff Sergeant
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| Re: Demo released[message #297642]
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Thu, 02 February 2012 16:41
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| Siresmithnj |
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Messages:17
Registered:March 2004
Location: NY |
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I had high hopes for the game, though I expected the worst.
UI is a mess, inventory management a pain, FOW missing, Strategic involvement is low.
That said, I'll preface this by saying I enjoyed the various UFO games, The last days of Gaia, Brigade E5, 7.62 and Hired Guns. If, like the games I just listed, I accept that this isn't Jagged Alliance it is actually fun to play.
While the lack of FOW definitely limited the amount of strategic involvement in my eyes, the plan and go has some definite potential.
Did I cancel my pre-order, yes. Will I buy it and play it yes... when the price drops.
While it was fun... it is not over $20 of fun.
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Private
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| Re: Demo released[message #297651]
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Thu, 02 February 2012 17:04
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| Fozzie |
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Messages:183
Registered:April 2010
Location: Germany |
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I'm kind of surprised to have read some comments elsewhere of people applauding the Plan&Go system - cause in the whole demo I never ran into a situation where chaining and intertwining orders would have been remotely necessary or even helpful. Most of it was lying down and keeping guard+burst mode up. Then shoot one guy with the "Druganoff" (cracks me up every time) and let the game run its course. Sometimes you run into bad luck and the odd enemy manages to get in a shot, though. Only, why he gets the better shot while running with an assault rifle than my sniper who's lying down, eludes me.
Also noticed a couple of "terrain" bugs. I have no idea how, but in front of the main entrance to the lab building, a bad guy managed to end up on top of the palm tree when I shot him. For the rest of the game he'd hang there in suspension, while the ragdoll physics made him wave his limp arm at me in perpetuation. Inside the building, the space between the banisters surrounding the staircase to the non-existent basement seems to be too narrow. As I entered, an enemy was running on the spot there, unable to actually move. I first thought it was an AI/pathfinding issue, but after I cleared the building I tried walking past it and my merc got stuck there, as well.
And some of the weapon pictures/description seem to be screwed up. Lynx' assault rifle's picture clearly doesn't show an M14 (maybe I misread the weapon's name, but the description was nearly 100% that of the M14 in the original, only they switched "apple pie" for "Hollywood") and when I found a SPAS the description declared it a semiautomatic assault rifle instead of a shotgun.
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Staff Sergeant
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| Re: Demo released[message #297662]
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Thu, 02 February 2012 17:44
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| LCJr. |
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Messages:83
Registered:November 2001 |
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DepressivesBrotTilting is [CTRL] + moving mouse, but the angle is a joke. Also, did I just miss it or is there no first person view? I found that very helpful in 7.62 to check LoS and missed it dearly with the BS camera we got here.
By tilt I mean change the angle. If you could get the camera horizontal/parallel with the ground it would solve the targeting problems. Luckily the game is such a joke I don't have to worry about it.
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Demo released[message #297694]
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Thu, 02 February 2012 23:19
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| CptMoore |
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Messages:224
Registered:March 2009 |
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the good:
- plan and go, mechanics & interface
- 3d graphics from above
- no fow (in games where its toggleble I disable fow)
- lots of weapons (for the demo)
- relativley easy to use (for a 3d tactic strategy game)
the bad:
- camera (you need to rotate to work with the environment)
- ammo tracers missing (visual feedback)
- no combat interaction with environment (deploy weapon on sandbags.. etc..)
- simple combat, like other tactic games.
- weren't able to do silenced gameplay yet (might be the map)
the ugly:
- head models
- animations, should be more action like.. now they are moving step by step like.
- UI, looks ugly .. is functional though
- 4 logos you have to cancel to get to the start menu...
- music, I'm very picky about music...
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Sergeant 1st Class
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Also, from skimming official forum, seems like each of the two may only have a single movement and a single shooting order - nothing else.LCJr.
