Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Gameplay Talk » How should I (re)start the game?
| How should I (re)start the game?[message #300200]
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Fri, 24 February 2012 17:55 
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 mecatronic |
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Messages:12
Registered:February 2012 |
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Hello there.
I've been a huge fan of JA1 for a long time. When I first played JA2 i didn't like it because it added a LOT of unnecessary complex elements (training militia, more than one squad at the same time, etc), but now I'm realizing it is indeed a very good game and I shouldn't have my first impressions deceive me.
So, i re-installed the game and installed 1.13 (never played it before) and was crushed by the drassen counterattack. After some research, i disabled it and re-started. Problem is that now I got frequently overwhelmed by ambushes of 12+ soldiers that eventually draw reinforcements, my cities get attacked by a lot of trained/equiped enemies faster than I can regroup.
As a side-effect of this, I'm totally out of ammo for my non-.38 guns.
After this, I'm thinking of restarting again and change some settings. After all, I'm only on day 3. I've read a lot of guides in the meanwhile, but they make the game seem so easy that I must be doing something wrong.
My questions about this are:
1) Am I doing anything wrong here? The game is increadibly hard! Enemies outnumber me by far and they also have better equipment. I wasn't able to win any ambush without save-loading or having a merc die.
2) Should I play without 1.13? I didn't fell in love with the new inventory system and I actually play with the old one. But playing with bugs is kinda silly, not to mention having to answer those questions to create your IMP (this was by far the best improvement of 1.13 imo). Also, I'd play with reduced guns, since I'm not a gun freak at all, and I don't have fun having to choose weapons that differ almost nothing from each other.
3) What should I do with Ira and Dimitri? I used Ira a lot in the beginning but now I don't have enough room in my squad to let Dimitri in and I obviously can't afford to split squads (see question 1). I thought about leaving Ira to train militia and use Dimitri as a trooper, but her Leadership is too low for that.
4) This one bugs me. With the huge number of .38 guns and ammo you find during your first day, is there any reason not to dual wield them with everybody on your team (assuming you don't have available bigger guns)? Firing two times per actions hardly will have a worse chance to hit than only one better aimed shot.
5) How do you deal with ammo? I only have one pistol that I have ammo for, apart from the .38s. When I find a new gun, I don't have ammo for it (or have a very few), and when I find ammo I don't have the gun for it. I think this is due to the bigger number of guns in 1.13, but not sure.
Thanks in advance.
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Private
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300204]
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Fri, 24 February 2012 18:14 
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| mecatronic |
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Messages:12
Registered:February 2012 |
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Thanks a lot for your fast reply.
My reply to your reply:
1) Why I shouldn't play with it? Honestly I've tried the old system and liked it better, but I read somewhere about it being bugged or something like this, so I stuck with the NCTH. I try not to change the .ini's 'cause I'd like to play the game as its supposed to be played (at least on this first attempt).
2) I could remove the bazilion guns all this time and didn't knew it!? THANK YOU! Er.. couldn't find this option inside the .ini, any help?
3) Yeah, that was my plan (although not very optimal). I just thought that she had a defined purpose in the game. Perhaps if I didn't have a medic yet...
4) Sorry, didn't get your answer here. Idiotic standard progression? I tried to play as closed to the original as possible, but with the improvements brought by 1.13 (considering it a patch more than a mod).
5) I've experienced Drop All once, but it ruined the balance in so many ways that I quit. Problem is (i think) that I'm not finding any ammo besides .38 (enemies and "chests").
[Updated on: Fri, 24 February 2012 18:18] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300219]
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Fri, 24 February 2012 19:44
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| mecatronic |
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Messages:12
Registered:February 2012 |
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Also, I'm still not sure about dual wielding. Is there any reason not to have two guns at the same time? I know you got a penalty on your CTH, but with two shots doesn't it actually gets improved?
Just to confirm here, everytime I change the Ja2_Options.ini i have to start a new game, right?
[Updated on: Fri, 24 February 2012 20:00] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300220]
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Fri, 24 February 2012 20:03
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| Marius |
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Messages:29
Registered:February 2011
Location: Norway |
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mecahackAlso, I'm still not sure about dual wielding. Is there any reason not to have two guns at the same time? I know you got a penalty on your CTH, but with two shots doesn't it actually gets improved?
If the mercenary has the Ambidextrous trait, there's no reason not to dual wield. If (s)he doesn't though, the penalty to hit can be quite big and it also costs additional APs you could otherwise have used to aim better. Then there's also the fact you burn a lot more ammo of course.
mecahackJust to confirm here, everytime I change the Ja2_Options.ini i have to start a new game, right?
No, though it is the case for some settings. Typically it's marked quite clearly in the .ini editor notes if changing a setting will force you to restart.
[Updated on: Fri, 24 February 2012 20:04] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300267]
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Sat, 25 February 2012 03:22
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| mecatronic |
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Messages:12
Registered:February 2012 |
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mecahackWhen I was playing 1.13 and reloaded a gun with red/AP bullets, the bullet counter turned red. Same thing applied to blue bullets.
But now when I load a gun with red bullets the numbers turn blue, and vice-versa! WTH is going on?
Also, I'm able to load a gun that requires 19mm ammo with .38 ammo, as long as its red. How is that possible?
Adding to this, i noticed that I cannot load my SPAS-15 (starter equipment for Wolf) with Buckshot shells.
Any advice?
EDIT: this is becoming more of a "bug's found when trying to play Vanilla with 1.13 installed", but After taking all Drassen zones I still can't train any militia. MILITIA and MOBILE MILITIA are always grayed out for me, even with loyalty greater than 80%.
[Updated on: Sat, 25 February 2012 03:44] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300278]
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Sat, 25 February 2012 07:51
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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Jagged Alliance 2 vanilla is a great game, to be sure. But what most of the people here saw was its potential. Jagged Alliance 2 with mods... now that's a *great* game. I think you sort of do yourself a disservice starting with a vanilla experience, but I can understand why a person would want to try a game out that way first. But think about all the little things that 1.13 gives that the base game lacks... even when it's just stuff like thunderstorms. All I can say is that the .ini editor is your friend, and the game can be very easily modified to make very specific aspects of it easier or harder. If you are frustrated, it's worthwhile to edit the game (even if this makes it "less" original) because you will eventually learn the game and be able to compensate properly, and then you can make it harder again. Otherwise, you might simply get frustrated and give up, and that's largely just a waste of time.
Ammo types: red is armor piercing, and blue is hollowpoint. What you are describing does sound like a bug, though. What version of 1.13 are you using?
Squad sizes: you can have multiple squads active in the same sector. So there's no reason to abandon anyone so early in the game. Free help is free help! When traveling, if you run into an enemy that you detect, it gives you the option for a simultaneous arrival. It's a little riskier if you get ambushed while moving in the countryside, but you will not get ambushed when attacking a city sector held by the enemy, ever. Ambushed during a sudden counterattack, maybe, but never on the initial entry. There's also a way to get 10 mercs in a squad. I use a downloaded executable, and I think the latest unstable version of 1.13 has it by default.
If you get ambushed while hanging around a sector (rather than when traveling) it will be easier to deal with if you preposition your mercs in the sector center before hand. At the edges, you might find the enemy right on top of you and shooting at you, immediately! If I'm going to start training militia, repairing items, or what have you, say in a city sector for a city that I haven't fully conquered yet, I always do so in the sector center as much as possible. With cover nearby, for certain. And again, there are ini settings to adjust certain situational ambushes, as well.
Shooting two pistols: at extreme range, this makes sense for anyone, because it's twice the number of chances to scoer a freak chance hit. At closer range, it only makes sense for mercs with the ambidexterity trait because the extra chance to hit is a lesser bonus than the large penalty to accuracy that you will take. A better alternative is to get an automatic weapon, so that you receive no penalty at close range, and at extreme range you can take even more chances than just two by using burst fire or auto fire.
Ira: she has a decently high wisdom, so even if you just start using her to train militia, she will grow her leadership score quickly. I believe rebels (Ira, Dimitri, Carlos, Miguel) also get bonuses to train militia. Ira makes an excellent medic in a pinch. And again... free help is free help! She can watch your team's back during combat, so even if she can't shoot for beans she gives you the heads up on when your flank is getting attacked. And if you actually use her a lot in combat, obviously while supported by better mercs, she again picks things up quickly due to her high wisdom.
OCTH vs. NCTH: OCTH is simplistic, somewhat unrealistic, but is understood completely. Basically the better range the gun has, the better accuracy it has. Also, the higher the scope magnification, the better accuracy it has. The actual "accuracy" value of a weapon has a lesser effect on chance to hit than the weapon's range, in general. Slightly imbalanced? Sure... you'll find sniper rifles and long range assault rifles will be extremely lethal at the expense of ever using anything else. NCTH attempts to model realism to a greater extent, but the weapon progression is not necessarily balanced for it, and some of the weapon stats might also be a touch off. Not exactly "bugs" per se, but there's definitely still balance work to do on the system. Weapons will feel less accurate in NCTH, in general, especially in autofire, but there will also be niche uses for a wider variety of weapon types. This is a real transition period for 1.13 due to the splash that NCTH seems to be making, and you're probably not alone in wondering which system to use. NCTH has a ton of adjustable settings, too, so for all it's not being completely balanced by default, it's also highly customizable as well.
Weapon selection: the vanilla game has a relatively limited number of weapons... I think around 40? Most of these weapons outright stink, and especially in the OCTH (I recall around 8 pistols, and 3 shotguns. remember that OCTH puts a premium on range). I guess your enemies will be using the same lousy weapons, so it sort of balances out, but in general you have fewer "real" choices unless you want to settle for something like a Mac10, or Mini 14, which are weapons that have some pretty severe drawbacks. 1.13 adds tons of guns, so there is lots of variety. However, in both settings you will always find that a handful of superior weapons outperform the bulk of the ultimate selection. Sorting through these in 1.13 is a bit more time consuming, of course, but there are plenty of topics in these forums that narrow down the opinions quite quickly.
Militia training: there is a required base leadership score for milita training, as well. Do you have a merc with a high enough leadership? Ira might not be high enough by default. The default minimum for training militia can be edited in the .ini as well.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300310]
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Sat, 25 February 2012 16:24
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| nkoulaf |
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Messages:5
Registered:February 2008 |
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I made a topic about something similar to this a couple of days ago. Bottom line, NCTH kind of assumes you have the BEST gun for the job, or you are using hit and run tactics.
Use GABBI cheat (for money and movement) and take Raven. Put Bobby ray at Awesome. Try only taking the airport. Order P90 (and ammo) + NVG IV + pistol suppressor + LAM 2000 + 2x scope + Earphones.NO armor but a urban camo kit .
Attack the rest of Drassen on a CLEAR night. Weather matters a lot in night visibility. Give Anyone (Even Ira) NVG IV + anything with burst/auto and suppressor to watch Ravens back.
Now try the same any other character. After that try the same again with Raven with an mpk5 and suppressor only (maybe NVG 1 or 2 + camo ) which is what you would (story wise) have in vanilla. Try the new setup with any other character. If still not bored try both raven setups with her hubby on the team  .
Now the first setup is overkill. Well it should be, her bullets and the repair kit for her gun and her camo cost more than all her enemies equipment sold at tony. The point is the second setup. With Old CTH she still rocks, but with NCTH, without a laser + scope even her fantastic stats cant compensate for the fact that even the most basic enemies need more than one bullet to die in JA (90% of the time). She is too outnumbered for stats to matter.
Now put her in a team of 6 low level merc fighters (no Iras and Gaskets). Say her hubby, Grunty, Igor, Buns and Blood. Give everyone a silenced mpk, nvg 1-2, camo and some stun grenades. Now that is a lot closer to how NCTH is supposed to work. Note no lasers, no silenced sniper rifles or scopes, they still can very much not take a single bullet against so poorly armed enemies. I know you are not supposed to be able to pay for them, you are not supposed to use NCTH yet either.
Besides weapon stats tweaking, (try AFS, i just started and quite like it) the NCTH assumes manpower and, if not superiority in firepower, that you are not outgunned as well as outnumbered. That is where you retreat and regroup.
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Private
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300324]
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Sat, 25 February 2012 18:15
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| mecatronic |
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Messages:12
Registered:February 2012 |
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Thanks for the info guys.
I would play "full" vanilla (no 1.13 installed at all) if I could, but bugs, stupid AI and low resolution are too much for me to handle at the same time. Of course I also wanna play "full" 1.13 after, but I wanna be able to feel the game as the original developers wanted it to be. As a game designer/programmer myself, that's what's natural to me.
That being said, I really don't like the idea of using modified (by 1.13) weapons because:
1) I'm not a gun freak (actually I don't know the name of more than 3 gun models or manufacturers), so that's a lot of unnecessary information for me.
2) In my first attempt to play 1.13, I had so many different guns and so many different ammos, that I had full inventories of empty guns and ammo for guns that I didn't have, before even finishing Drassen.
3) Having to micro-manage gun options is no fun for me at all (at least not with so many options), and the guns are very similar to each other that it almost makes no sense to have them all.
Bottom line, all I wanted to play was a vanilla with suppression fire (and possible other trinkets that I don't remeber now), bug fixes, smart AI and a good resolution. I tried to install 1.13 and load the vanilla settings in the INI editor, but it resulted in a lot of bugs (including not being able to train milita), so that's not an option. My next attempt will be playing 1.13 with the INI settings of vanilla, but I don't know how to use only the "Regular" (not tons of guns) guns of vanilla in 1.13 (I still don't know why the modders took this option out). Can someone help me here? That would probably solve a lot of problems for me =D
Also,
Quote:Ammo types: red is armor piercing, and blue is hollowpoint. What you are describing does sound like a bug, though. What version of 1.13 are you using?
Build 4870, but remeber that I was playing with the vanilla INIs loaded.
Quote:Militia training: there is a required base leadership score for milita training, as well. Do you have a merc with a high enough leadership? Ira might not be high enough by default. The default minimum for training militia can be edited in the .ini as well.
I tried with all my mercs, including my IMP (60 Leadership) and Wolf. They all had the MILITIA option grayed out.
[Updated on: Sat, 25 February 2012 18:38] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300327]
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Sat, 25 February 2012 20:37
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| Hazapuza |
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Messages:262
Registered:February 2009
Location: Finland |
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1.13 has different facilities like bars, firing ranges etc. which provide different bonuses to various assignments (firing range improves marksmanship training speed, for example). As it stands, you can only train militia in sectors which have an A.C.A building (as with most of the other facilities, you can see these concretely on the tactical view in addition to being listed on the strategic map screen).
I don't know if there currently is an easy way to turn off this function (IIRC there was a setting for that in the INI, but not anymore), and the worst thing is this whole A.C.A requirement isn't even explained anywhere, as far as I know. The facilities themselves are highly customisable though, so there might be a setting hidden somewhere after all... Again, someone more knowledgeable should give proper answers.
The ammo issues you described are bugs, either your installation went wrong or the Vanilla VFS profile doesn't work properly...
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300333]
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Sat, 25 February 2012 21:42
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| mecatronic |
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Messages:12
Registered:February 2012 |
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thanks for the replies guys, you don't imagine how much you're helping me.
I guess my best guess is to start over again in 1.13 with the INI edited to look like vanilla, and using as most classic options as possible. That should avoid all the bugs in the vanilla pofile.
Problem are the guns. If I paste the weapons, itens, etc .xmls into the 1.13 would it work? Also, are there any place that lists the guns in Vanilla-Normal, Vanilla-TonsofGuns, 1.13-Reduced, 1.13-TonsofGuns?
Again, thanks a lot for all your help so far.
[Updated on: Sat, 25 February 2012 21:53] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300336]
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Sat, 25 February 2012 22:08
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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Here's my suggestion.
It looks like you're getting hung up on the whole "guns" thing. I get it. You don't care about guns.
Start a new 1.13 game. During game start, uncheck the "tons of guns" option. That limits you to the old gun options, I believe.
You still play with all the 1.13 perks, but with fewer firearms choices. You get the potential of the new inventory system and new attachment systems as well, I believe.
1.13 is definitely about more than firearms. If you've glanced through the ini file, you already know this. I mean, there's even a new algorithm that alters priorities while repairing equipment... that's such a transparent but convenient thing that it would be almost silly not to play with it, and those are the sort of options I'm referring to. The old inventory system is, honestly, pretty garbage. I'd be lost without LBE gear to let me carry more items, particularly small items. On top of that, I get options like shutting skyrider up, playing with a squad of 10 mercs, training roaming militia, and sneaking in real time even after spotting an enemy, plus about a dozen useful key commands that vanilla doesn't have (everything from sorting sector inventories to switching to night vision).
That said, understand that I'm terribly biased by this point. After experiencing 1.13, I don't even think I can play vanilla anymore... it would feel tedious and painful. It would be like trying to enjoy dry bread and tap water as a meal... sustaining, I suppose, but not delicious.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: How should I (re)start the game?[message #300391]
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Mon, 27 February 2012 02:09
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| mecatronic |
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Messages:12
Registered:February 2012 |
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Yeah, i'm doing great in this last playthrough thanks to all the support from this topic.
1.13 is not noob friendly for sure (I guess that's the price for being extra friendly for experienced players), but nowadays neither is vanilla.
Vanilla is so outdated that's almost no point in playing it (I dare you to play with that resolution!). I guess that was a good lesson for me.
Thanks again guys!
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