Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?
| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302293]
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Sat, 24 March 2012 06:06  
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 Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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That doesn't follow at all... the battle rifles won't be available until coolness 5. the 7x would be available at coolness 3 (it would be edited to that, of course). You will have to put it on something, so the obvious answer there is one of the earlier rifles... either one of the WW2 bolt actions, the M-03, or the .50 Beowulf are probably the best choices there for taking advantage of the 7x range.
At coolness 4, early sniper rifles show up. Some of these will undoubtedly be semi-automatic. We might need to modify some of them to come with 7x scopes by default, though, since the 10x is coolness 5.
At coolness 5, sniper rifles get to take advantage of the 10x, and battle rifles appear and immediately are going to want to use that 7x. The sniper rifles will own them in terms of range and accuracy, but the battle rifles have full auto or bursts, of course.
By the time your FN FAL is available, you would simply purchase the scope directly, of course.
Sabrethe 7x scope isn't otherwise supposed to be available until well after the battle rifles show up
As to this... why? Some arbitrary reason? Now that 7x scopes aren't so useful close up, it's not like they will completely dominate shorter ranged weapons, the way they used to in OCTH.
[Updated on: Sat, 24 March 2012 06:08] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302296]
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Sat, 24 March 2012 07:25
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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Before I go any further, I should mention that I mostly finished the shotguns in the reserved post above. I could use some advice on what to do with the Neostead, Sawed off, and Super Shorty, though.
Back to the matter at hand:
SabrePoint, but it probably will be given to other rifles as well, and then you'll have snipers and marksmen dominating the battlefield as soon as the 7x scope becomes available, which is something we wanted to delay for awhile, no?
To reiterate:
HeadrockMost of our pistols are still at Coolness 1-2, and sniper rifles start appearing much later in the game - but this is completely wrong in NCTH, it doesn't make sense. Instead, some SRs should now be appearing in the first few Coolness levels, as should some Machine Guns - and conversely, pistols, MPs and SMGs need to spread out over the mid and high coolness levels. The reason, again, is that with NCTH every weapon has its downsides and upsides in combat, which means that we NEED a wider range of weapons in each coolness level to keep things balanced. For example, really basic rifles like the M1 Carbine need to start appearing at Coolness 1 or even equipped on some low-level mercs by default, early SRs like the Zastava M76 or ColtCanada C7CT should appear at level 3 at most instead of level 6! Conversely, instead of appearing at Coolness 5, the Five-seveN might be pushed back all the way to coolness 8 - given how terrifyingly powerful such a pistol can be in close-range encounters with the enemy.
Snipers and designated marksmen should only dominate at a distance. Up close, the machine pistols, submachine guns, and shotguns are going to be superior weapons. Sniper rifles also suck at suppression, so against a numerically superior foe they can become a liability if you get charged by large numbers. They will probably become additionally weaker once the AI is improved and charges more effectively... right now they can still dominate when the AI spends its time running back and forth outside of visual range, which is still frustratingly often, but there are definitely battles where you WILL get rushed (DCA and ambushes come to mind).
SabreI was arguing for one of two things: either the Mauser 03 gets introduced at the same time as the K98, which means the 7x scope shows up at that time. Or, the alternative is for the rifle to show up at the same time as the early sniper rifles, in which case the 7x scope becomes a lot more useful.
Yes, I already read your two proposals, and offered a counter proposal. At this point, what we need isn't knowing these three options, but a discussion as to the logic behind each of them. Why does either option particularly seem right, to you? Why does an "in between" coolness (which was my proposal) not make sense?
As far as the 7x scope, again, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want it to be useful. It's there to be used. It's meant to replace the crappy WW2 scopes as a marksman weapon, and it does that. The range of the 7x starts to create more stratification between close range weapons and long range weapons in a way that the 4x magnification WW2 scopes never can. Likewise, the rifles you are mounting it on are going to replace the crappier choices, like the Mini-14. It isn't, however, going to immediately go on a battle rifle, because you've got two coolness levels to go before you get those.
Sabreif that happens, the battle rifles in 7.62 NATO will be used for ultra-deadly long-range autofire attacks.
Are these really useful for anything else? I sort of thought the quality you ascribe to them is rather the point.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302300]
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Sat, 24 March 2012 07:48
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| sabresandy |
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Messages:65
Registered:February 2012 |
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I'm basing my thoughts off current enemy behaviour. Right now, the enemy tends to charge at you, usually stopping right inside rifle range, in the middle of the 7x/rifle weapons envelope; I've yet to really have a situation where I'd prefer a 4x to a 7x.
In retrospect, I suppose I'm too used to the current weapons progression and enemy behaviour, which rewards opening fire with as many weapons as possible, at the greatest range possible, and attriting the enemy as he comes closer, WWI-style. In that context, a couple of Mini-14s or Garands armed with 7x scopes become a disproportionately powerful force. That was why I wanted to delay the appearance of the 7x scope. This way, you can get marksmen early on, but they'll be armed with the less-powerful WWII scopes and limited to older rifles for a while.
So, I'm cool with the Mauser 03 showing up at the same time that the 7x would otherwise appear. My impression was that this would occur around coolness 4 or so.
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Corporal
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302331]
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Sat, 24 March 2012 22:56
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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Really? I definitely find that the 4x provides the overall best aiming aperture at a variety of ranges. As for the enemy AI, I don't really have that experience. What I do tend to get are interrupts, and lots of them, and I get those with all sorts of scope ranges.
SabreIn retrospect, I suppose I'm too used to the current weapons progression and enemy behaviour, which rewards opening fire with as many weapons as possible, at the greatest range possible, and attriting the enemy as he comes closer, WWI-style.
That's definitely the best strategy in the game's current incarnation. Wish it were more interesting, but that's sadly the limitation of our current AI. Obviously things get more interesting when the enemy gets closer, but that generally happens indoors/ at night/ if there are a LOT of them.
SabreSo, I'm cool with the Mauser 03 showing up at the same time that the 7x would otherwise appear. My impression was that this would occur around coolness 4 or so.
I think the overall progression schedule is solid, so far. Of course, this is also without any playtesting. For marksmen weapons, we have:
0: older rifles, PEM, ZF-42, and No. 32 scopes (I believe these are all nominally 4x magnification)
1: semi-auto rifles
2: 2x scopes
3: 7x scopes
4: sniper rifles, PSO-1 and PSO-3 scopes.
5: long range automatic rifles, 10x scopes
So essentially, these early coolness levels are all about getting better scopes, and to a certain extent better rifles, and then the ability to put better scopes on these better rifles. Then, after coolness 5, you have the farthest scope and the best "class" of weapons, but the sniper rifle category is quite large, so it takes you another 5 progress levels to upgrade those repeatedly.
We could probably move the 7x scope back, but if we then also push back the PSO-3 and 10x scopes (as could be considered appropriate) we will have an even harder time sorting out the sniper rifles, with that much tighter a progression. You've got to figure at any coolness level, 2-3 particular weapons will dominate their weapon category. Hopefully with even just 1 more coolness level to work with, that means 2-3 more sniper rifles that could be "best in class" for a coolness level.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302338]
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Sun, 25 March 2012 00:02
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| sabresandy |
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Messages:65
Registered:February 2012 |
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All right. I can work with that.
Rifles list completed!
Coolness 0
* Mosin-Nagant: 7.62x54R. Speed 18, Range 60, APs 33 (28 to rechamber), Acc. 84. PEM or 7x scope, no bipod.
* Mauser K98: 7.92. Speed 17, Range 66, APs 32 (28 to rechamber), Acc. 85. ZF-42 or 7x scope, bipod.
* Winchester 94: .44 mag. Speed 8, Range 22, APs 29 (20 to rechamber), Acc. 55. ACOG or 7x scope, no bipod.
The first three rifles are pretty similar. They all take a lot of APs to ready and even more to shoot and rechamber. With the appropriate scopes mounted they'd be very deadly marksman's weapons; without scopes they're marginal at best.
The Winchester is a bit of an exception; much faster than the other rifles, not quite up to semiautomatic rates, though. It does have the advantage of sharing .44 ammunition with other pistols.
Coolness 1
* M1 Carbine: .30 car. Speed 7, Range 20, APs 25, Acc. 40. No. 32 scope, no bipod.
* Beretta Cx4: .45ACP. Speed 3 (!), Range 21, APs 22, Acc. 43. Small scope only, can accept pistol suppressor.
* Calico M900: 9mm. Speed 6, Range 23, APs 24, Acc. 47. ACOG and 7x scope, can accept AR suppressor.
Pistol-caliber rifles show up around here, competing a bit with SMGs. (The alternative is to have them all available at Coolness 0.) The M1 is really not very good and probably deserves to be moved to Coolness 0; of the two remaining, both make for serviceable mid-range weapons. The Beretta Storm rifle in particular is quite good.
Coolness 2
* SKS: 7.62x39. Speed 17, Range 38, APs 29, Acc. 68. ACOG and 7x Scopes, cannot accept bipod, can accept folding stock.
* Ruger Mini-14: 5.56. Speed 12, Range 37, APs 25, Acc. 67. ACOG and 7x scopes, can accept folding stock and trigger group.
* HK SL8: 5.56. Speed 16, Range 38, APs 26, Acc. 68. ACOG and 7x scopes, can accept bipod.
* M1 Garand: .30-06. Speed 17, Range 67, APs 30, Acc. 82. No. 32 and 7x scope, no bipod.
* HEZI SM-1: .30car. Speed 6, Range 20, APs 24, Acc. 40. Assault-rifle level of attachments; trigger group unlocks fast and accurate 3-round bursts.
The rationale here is that the rifles start to take a different role from the submachine guns, being capable as they now are of long-range, accurate single fire. I hesitate to include the HEZI here; as discussed, it's extremely useful when you factor in the trigger group, but less useful otherwise.
Coolness 3
* Mauser 03: 7.92. Speed 17, Range 69, APs 32 (28 to rechamber), Acc. 86. ACOG or 7x scope, no bipod.
* .50 Beowulf: .50 Beo. Speed 14, Range 40, APs 36, Acc. 70. ACOG and 7x scopes, can accept retractable stock.
These are the mini-sniper rifles, and ones that you're likely to keep and use for some time. At this time 7x scopes become available, meaning that marksmen will be able to take full advantage of these rifles.
----
I'm willing to shuffle around the rifles a bit; as things stand, the pistol-caliber rifles don't get their day to shine before getting outclassed by SMGs, so perhaps we can move them down a coolness level or two.
[Updated on: Sun, 25 March 2012 00:02] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302343]
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Sun, 25 March 2012 05:03
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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I like what I'm reading.
I think the M1 carbine, since it can mount the No. 32 scope, is of sufficient quality that it could go either way; I leave final judgement to you. If you place it in coolness 0, it will easily be the fastest hitting option there, but it definitely doesn't outclass the longer ranged bolt action stuff, either. At coolness 1, it's marginally better than its competitors only because it has a coolness 0 scope available to it, whereas the Storm and M900 have to wait until the 2x becomes available at coolness 2.
Also, I wouldn't worry about the HEZI. Considering all things, we should probably just take a look at when we make the trigger group itself available, and I'm guessing it should be coolness 4 or 5, maybe even later. That way the modified HEZI is competing with carbine length automatic rifles, which is (sort of?) where it belongs.
On that note, I'd love to hear feedback on the shotgun post way up top. I need some advice on where to think about putting a few stragglers.
[Updated on: Sun, 25 March 2012 05:04] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302429]
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Mon, 26 March 2012 19:02
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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Yeah, I was thinking about that extender, actually. Maybe in OCTH that would have been true, but a few extra points of range aren't the same in NCTH in quite the same way, so it's something of a minor difference. Also, it's catching up to the CAWS in terms of range, so the CAWS can mount a duckbill or something.
I've used the USAS-12 and the CAWS a lot, and the damage difference is staggering. The USAS-12 usually takes 2-3 hits to drop a fully armored foe, whereas the CAWS usually does it in 1, with a second hit being somewhat rare (buckshot only on either of these). And, for as slow as the CAWS is, the USAS-12 could never really be called "speedy" either.
Anyways, what about the super shorty and sawed off?
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302591]
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Sat, 31 March 2012 02:15
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| sabresandy |
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Messages:65
Registered:February 2012 |
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'Kay. Here are the MPs.
Machine Pistols and MP-like SMGs
All of these can be fired one-handed, and are generally considered lightweight enough to pack as a backup weapon. Included are the weird cut-down 5.56mm "pistols", which pack a heavy punch but are heavy and limited to semi-auto. Unless specifically noted, these weapons cannot accept foregrips; their optics are limited to 2x scopes and reflex sights.
OA-93: 30 5.56. Ready APs 2, Fire 22/semi. Damage 27, Acc. 47, Range 23, RcX 1, RcY 14. Cannot be suppressed.
CMMG 7.3: 30 5.56. Ready APs 3, Fire 22/semi. Damage 27, Acc. 50, Range 24, RcX 1, RcY 12. Cannot be suppressed.
Steyr TMP: 30 9x19. Ready APs 1, Fire 20/4 per 5AP. Damage 25, Acc. 7, Range 13, RcX 2, RcY 9. Built-in foregrip.
Stechkin APS: 20 9x18. Ready APs 1, Fire 18/3 per 5AP. Damage 16, Acc. 7, Range 13, RcX 2, RcY 12.
Skorpion vz.82: 20 9x18. Ready APs 1, Fire 18/4 per 5AP. Damage 24, Acc. 6, Range 11, RcX 2, RcY 11. Can accept foregrip and folding stock (?).
PP-93: 30 9x18. Ready APs 1, Fire 18/4 per 5AP. Damage 25, Acc. 29, Range 17, RcX 3, RcY 10.
Mini-Uzi: 30 9x19. Ready APs 3*, Fire 23/4 per 5AP. Damage 26, Acc. 29, Range 17, RcX 3, RcY 10.
Cobray M11/9: 30 9x19. Ready APs 1*, Fire 21/5 per 5AP. Damage 25, Acc. 14, Range 14, RcX 3, RcY 12.
HK MP7A1: 40 4.6mm. Ready APs 1*, Fire 16/4 per 5AP. Damage 26, Acc. 25, Range 16, RcX 1, RcY 9.
FAMAE Mini SAF: 30 9x19. Ready APs 2*, Fire 22/4 per 5AP. Damage 24, Acc. 7, Range 10, RcX 2, RcY 12. Built-in foregrip.
SR-2 Veresk: 30 9x21. Ready APs 1*, Fire 20/4 per 5AP. Damage 26, Acc. 25, Range 16, RcX 2, RcY 9. Can accept foregrip.
Agram 2000: 30 9x19. Ready APs 1, Fire 22/4 per 5AP. Damage 25, Acc. 14, Range 14, RcX 2, RcY 9. Built-in foregrip.
AEK-919K: 30 9x18. Ready APs 1*, Fire 19/4 per 5AP. Damage 24, Acc. 20, Range 15, RcX 2, RcY 8.
Micro-Uzi: 30 9x19. Ready APs 1*, Fire 21/6 per 5AP. Damage 25, Acc. 7, Range 13, RcX 3, RcY 12.
Calico M-950: 50 9x19. Ready APs 1, Fire 21/semi [burst 20]. Damage 27, Acc. 20, Range 15, RcX 2, RcY 9. Trigger group unlocks burst.
Ingram M10: 30 .45ACP. Ready APs 5*, Fire 28/5 per 5AP. Damage 26, Acc. 5, Range 12, RcX 3, RcY 13.
HK MP5KA4: 30 9x19. Ready APs 2, Fire 22/4 per 5AP, burst-capable. Damage 25, Acc. 7, Range 12, RcX 2, RcY 12. Built-in foregrip.
Beretta 93R: 30 9x19. Ready APs 1, Fire 20/burst-capable. Damage 25, Acc. 14 (?), Range 14, RcX 2, RcY 12. Built-in foregrip.
Glock 18: 15 9x19. Ready APs 0, Fire 19/6 per 5AP. Damage 25, Acc. 6, Range 12, RcX 3, RcY 13. Can accept match sights.
* After folding-stock calculations.
So, uh, I'm not sure what to make of these. I do know that traditionally the MP7 and the Veresk are limited to the higher coolness levels, because both weapons are fast, controllable, and use special armor-piercing ammo. I'm not too certain about the rest.
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Corporal
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302594]
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Sat, 31 March 2012 06:06
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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Every category of weapon is going to be evaluated on different criteria. Sniper rifles value accuracy, machine guns value autofire rates, etc.
Machine pistols? Well, to a certain extent these are a backup weapon, and to some extent they could be an alternate weapon. By backup weapon I mean you might use some of these as a fast trump card, should an enemy pop out at close range. Having 18-25 AP might qualify you for an interrupt, but that's not going to be enough to plug a target with your AR another time. Without a fast pistol, you're limited to ducking, turning, or maybe moving 1-2 tiles. So some of these would be judged on par with pistols (Glock 18, Beretta 93R, etc.) because they are basically an alternative choice to those.
And they can also be an alternate weapon. By that I mean something you carry for a completely different sort of combat than what you use your primary weapon for. A marksman's weapon might be too slow to be of any use in night fighting, or when clearing a building. Having a lightweight automatic weapon becomes an asset in those circumstances where close quarters fighting becomes the norm.
So I would consider the fastest of these (17-22 APs to shoot) on par with really awesome pistols, and the slower ones on par with short range (probably poorer) SMGs.
Checking back up the thread, the progress/coolness range for these guys is scheduled as 0 all the way through 9. We might need to adjust this... looking at the stats for a bunch of common pistols, the lowly Skorpion (which comes to mind as the sort of weapon that's perfect for low level action) actually outclasses a bunch of common ones. Obviously we don't want to outclass a whole bunch of weapons right from the beginning of the game. We should probably adjust this to start at coolness 1 or maybe even 2.
Quote:Skorpion vz.82: 20 9x18. Ready APs 1, Fire 18/4 per 5AP. Damage 24, Acc. 6, Range 11, RcX 2, RcY 11. Can accept foregrip and folding stock (?).
It can accept a foregrip, but doesn't come with one by default. The folding stock is rather pointless, unless it assists in counterforce somehow. It has a range comparable to most pistols, but is faster than many of them (and can go full auto in a pinch, besides). Damage is comparatively low. Recoil in full auto is horrible. Magazine size is low for a full auto weapon.
I'm not sure what to do at all with those cut-down ARs. They really compare more to the hand-cannon pistols like a Desert Eagle or other large magnum.
Also don't forget to consider the default number of aiming levels for these weapons. I'm pretty sure everything in the category is 2, but I could be off on that one.
On a separate note, I've recently started playing again in a new campaign, and Igor is using the Skorpion. He can't hit anything with 5 round bursts, and has an abysmal kill count considering he is the *only* member of my team with an automatic weapon. Some of these machine pistols, with their limited range and hideous recoil, are really wretched weapons until you get a foregrip.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #302595]
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Sat, 31 March 2012 07:46
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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I'm going to start by dividing the weapons into two categories... basically better or worse than average, just according to my gut. We can take the time to refine that to a more specific point afterwards.
Mediocre/Bad/Meh:
Skorpion vz.82 - already evaluated above
Mini-Uzi - Slower, even/especially with the folding stock, but with accuracy and range more comparable to an SMG. Still, completely outclassed by the PP-93 in everything except damage.
Ingram M10 - slow
HK MP5KA4 - makes me sad to put this here, but the stats are mediocre compared to many other weapons.
Beretta 93R - outclasses a lot of pistols, but burst fire sucks by comparison because three rounds of 9x19 is weak.
Micro-Uzi - good luck controlling that recoil!
FAMAE Mini SAF - extremely low range is a liability, like with the skorpion. try suppressing the enemy with this and check out that bullet drop, and you'll see what I mean.
Calico M-950 - semi auto, yuck.
Excellent/Exceptional/Decent:
Steyr TMP - medium speed and accuracy, great autofire rate, good range and recoil, foregrip.
Stechkin APS - for the speed and range that it has, it outclasses most pistols. That it can go full auto is a plus.
PP-93 - Ditto what I said about the Stetchkin on this thing. Even better range, better damage, and better magazine capacity, to boot
HK MP7A1 - best in show!
SR-2 Veresk - almost as good
Glock 18 - a glock 17 on crack! excellent choice as a pistol upgrade/replacement.
Agram 2000 - good overall
AEK-919K - ditto
So these aren't otherwise ranked, yet, but it will become easier for us from here forward. Obviously some of the weapons rank themselves fairly handily (MP7A1) and some of the weapons have an obvious relationship to one another (Stetchkin APS vs. PP-93) so after you plug in a few these weapons where they obviously belong, the rest will follow over time.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #308289]
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Sat, 28 July 2012 05:27
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| sabresandy |
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Messages:65
Registered:February 2012 |
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Well, as far as I know, none of this has actually been introduced via XML edits yet. So we're just putting together a coolness ranking for the guns, which we can do on the forum. That does, however, require that someone be willing to work alongside me, and Ryft if he shows up again. I'll be using Ryft's rankings as a guide.
So, MP rankings.
Coolness 0: none. Pistols rule the sidearm field.
Coolness 1: don't use these. Skorpion, Calico M950, Ingram Mac-10, Micro-Uzi.
Coolness 2: Some of these are usable. Foregrips will increase their utility a little. MP5KA4, Mini-Uzi, both 5.56s (CMMG 7.3 and OA-93), FAMAE Mini SAF, Mini Uzi, Beretta 93R, Cobray M11.
Coolness 3: Good MPs. AEK-919, Agram 2000. Stechkin.
Coolness 4: PP-93. Farewell, Stechkin.
Coolness 5: Glock 18. Replacement for a lot of pistols. Steyr TMP.
Coolness 9: best in show. MP7A1 and Veresk (Veresk has the ability to accept foregrip, and 9x21 has thus far been commoner than 4.6).
In the words of Dan Drezner, did I miss anything?
[Updated on: Sat, 28 July 2012 05:32] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #308428]
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Tue, 31 July 2012 00:00
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| sabresandy |
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Messages:65
Registered:February 2012 |
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So, since Ryft has apparently disappeared off the face of the earth, I'll provisionally attempt control of this project.
Right now, the main priority is sorting the gun choices by coolness, to better reflect NCTH. To review, for any new people: the older enemy weapons choices reflected the old builds of JA2, where the key factor was range. In this system, progression went from short-range to long-range; pistols to SMGs to M-16s/AK-47s to battle rifles to sniper rifles, with P90s filling the niche close-in role. With the development of aimed autofire (probably the single biggest change to the system), that progression no longer made sense.
Thus, once again, this is what we're aiming for. We've already sorted machine guns, shotguns, rifles, and machine pistols/MP-like SMGs. We still need to sort pistols, submachine guns, carbines (which will replace SMGs), assault rifles, battle rifles, sniper rifles, heavy weapons, and the all-important accessories. At this stage, the work is tedious but simple: look through the stats of the weapons in the XML editor, post the relevant ones, and try to decide which fits where.
After that, the next step is to tailor the kits of the mercs, with the new weapons progression in mind. Finally, we need to package everything together (which is where I kind of fail).
The end goal is that the weapons progression makes sense; there will be stages where every type of weapon gets their day. You'll be pummeled with Browning LMG fire, rifle fire, shotgun, and SMG fire early on; the AI will used combined arms, but that's okay, since so will you (no more mass pistol combat in Omerta). You'll want marksmen, close-in gunners, suppressers, assault grenadiers, and whatever have you, all working together. In stock 1.13, you don't see this kind of team until the endgame: the close-in weapons are there, but the long-range weapons are not. In our revised weapon choices table, you should be able to put together this kind of team from the start, and as the game progresses, you'll be switching out weapons for better ones in their categories.
Anyone interested in helping out?
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Corporal
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #308757]
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Tue, 07 August 2012 07:18
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| sorca_2 |
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Messages:202
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA |
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Do we have a spreadsheet with all of the weapons and their stats? If not, is there a way to get one without manually typing it up? In order to do coolness levels and enemy gun choices, we have to be able to compare the weapons.
[Updated on: Tue, 07 August 2012 07:18] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #308774]
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Tue, 07 August 2012 16:50
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| sorca_2 |
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Messages:202
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA |
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Excellent. But now I have some fundamental issues and questions for our next steps.
1) I'm working on formatting a copy now that I can post for everyone. I want to create a spreadsheet with "clean" data--legible column titles, omit irrelevant data (like noise and animation stuff), and combine info from Weapons.xml and Items.xml. Would it make sense to post it on the 1.13 wiki when I'm done? I need to find somewhere permanent so future generations can use it. Google docs?
2) Forgive possible n00bness, but what do the following Weapons.xml fields do:
- Impact
- Deadliness
- RecoilX
- RecoilY (I presume these are NCTH-related, X = horizontal, Y = vertical, and that higher values are worse)
- and where is Damage?
3) And what do the following Items.xml fields do:
- nasLayoutClass (I assume something to do with NAS, but what?)
- STAND_MODIFIERS
- CROUCH_MODIFIERS
- PRONE_MODIFIERS (these last three seem to be mostly empty)
4) How can we tell what attachments can be attached to what weapons from the XMLs? Obviously this has a huge impact on a weapon's effectiveness. I looked at the attachment XMLs but all I could tell was that it seems to use some kind of reference system.
5) I need to merge data from Weapons.xml and Items.xml to get a complete picture for all of the weapons, but I can't get Excel to open Items.xml in a readable way (weapons.xml works just fine, however). I think it has something to do with the way Excel sets up the schema for converting it from XML, but I don't know what it is about Items.xml that pisses it off. I might have to experiment with Visual Basic to get the schema to work, but that's new territory for me. Any thoughts, anyone?
6) I see a more fundamental problem that, as far as I can tell, hasn't been addressed. I started a new topic elsewhere to discuss it.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: EnemyGunChoices.xml for latest 1.13/NCTH?[message #309458]
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Thu, 23 August 2012 20:08
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| sorca_2 |
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Messages:202
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA |
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Thanks for your help guys, especially wil473. I figured it out eventually and created the Weapons spreadsheet in my signature. Future generations attempting to balance weapons should find it useful.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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