Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » #JAFDEV » Community Wishlist for JA:F
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318478]
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Thu, 02 May 2013 12:21
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Shanga |
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Messages:3480
Registered:January 2000 Location: Danubia |
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Mauser brought up SMP in another thread and I thank him for that
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Maybe it would be a smart move for FC to use their mastery of the Unity engine to provide just that, a solid, easy to use construction kit and framework for modders of turn based games, then use KS once more to develop the "JA:F content module" for it. And if that works out well, they could start making a plethora of series of differently styled and themed turn based games on that foundation for quite some time, whilst carefully and continually evolving and updating the tools.
The basic principle of SMP is that the actual campaign - this includes maps, mercs, quests, weapons, isn't hardcoded into the game, but fed-in as a replaceable "plugin".
This could actually work better for FC than anything else, since they don't have the budget to make a full on JA2 campaign. Fine, then design a framework with a simple campaign that can be replaced.
[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 12:21] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318490]
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Thu, 02 May 2013 16:39
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malthaussen |
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Messages:91
Registered:January 2005 Location: Philadelphia |
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R@S
So if you go with an active system, maybe add merc classes to the I.M.P., like trooper, machine gunner, mechanic, scout, sniper and medic. Then make the costs of different stat updates differ, and by choosing a class you'd get a discount on some of the stats that are crucial to the class selected. It would add to the RPG sense of the game, which I think is one area that always could be improved upon.(Play BSM and you'll see what I mean )
I have to say I hate this idea. I hate character classes in general, and always have, despite being an RPG player since DnD was invented. It is especially a bad idea for a skill-based game, IMO. A character should be defined by what he does and the skills he learns, not some arbitrary title. They did this in Silent Storm and the new XCOM, but fortunately the InXile team have not added this to Wasteland 2.
-- Mal
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318496]
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Thu, 02 May 2013 16:55
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malthaussen |
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Messages:91
Registered:January 2005 Location: Philadelphia |
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Big sectors and lots of people.
One of the technical questions I have about the engine is how big and messy the combats will be. Most of the battlefields in Silent Storm were small, and there were never more than about a dozen enemies. And of course you were limited to six on your own side. Can the engine support large, sprawling maps and platoon-sized actions? And if so, is it the intention of the devs to exploit this ability?
@DepressiveBot: Yeah, I hear you. It can be very frustrating, but I tend to get a chuckle out of it now. I get more annoyed that Bobby Ray's doesn't always sell the ammo I want, and having to scavenge that can be a pain in the ass, especially in the early game.
-- Mal
[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 16:57] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318519]
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Thu, 02 May 2013 20:55
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R@S |
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Messages:134
Registered:July 2004 Location: Sweden |
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LytinwheedleNo B:E5/7.62 maps please.
What I hated about that was that only a few areas on the map had proper sectors, and the rest was a repetitive list of random maps that (more or less, emphasis on the latter) matched the climate/terrain you were in.
While it is a lot of work, JA2s sectors are significantly better because it gives the gameworld some continuity. It also allows you to set set traps and ambushes and the exploration might lead to nice loot. The map is what made JA2 come alive. I have walked through and fought on the majority of the sectors at some point, and it never felt like '*Loading screen* Yawn, that map again.' I'm not sure which I prefer yet, it will be up to FC and how they end up doing it. If they have limited resources and only had the time and budget to make 20 sectors, I'd prefer the B:E5/7.62 maps. But then they would have to provide the community with a map editor(or Unity exporter to game format) so we could make some sectors ourselves and add them to the random sector pool to our liking.
If they plan to make 30 or more sectors and no map editor, the JA2/BiA way is what I'd like to see.
I'd also like to see what Shadow suggested, some randomly generated maps, but it's more than unlikely they'll have the resources and time to actually do this.
LytinwheedleYou should be able to toggle the enemies dropping everything but it really unbalances the economy and removes the challenge and elation you feel when you see the first long weapon on a body (or snatch it from the enemy after putting a dart into him and then beating him into a pulpy mess). If the items have pockets, have the game empty them automatically, it was really annoying to click through cascading windows of pouches and vests in B:E5/7.62 to get that last STANAG mag you needed. And I'm of two minds here as well. If we have the possibility to steal enemy weapons, like in JA2, I wouldn't mind a possibility drop that much. It would add to the tactical layer having to sneak and steal the weapons you really, really want. But if there's no stealing, I want 100% drop, or at least an option in the setting to toggle it on/off.
As for the economic balance, as Shanga said this could be solved with a good weight system. You could also tweak the shop prices so the player couldn't make that much money from the loot.
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Sergeant
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318530]
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Thu, 02 May 2013 21:55
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Shanga |
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Messages:3480
Registered:January 2000 Location: Danubia |
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Having access to the best weapons too soon kills your game fast. BIA did that. And soon I was roaming the country with a full squad of snipers backed by HMGs, cleaning out entire military bases without breaking a sweat.
Weight + Degradation of weapons + Scavenging loot for parts + Mechanic = Surplus problem solved.
If it was me, I'd remove weapon dealers from the game entirely. Or at least not have both weapon dealers (+BR) and Drop all. I'd like to see more bartering done, instead of straight up trade.
- Bartering
Local gunsmith says he can improve your gun if you bring him X trigger group and a Y barrel. You deliver the items, get a cool new sniper rifle. Once you're friendly with him, his interface gives you ideas about possible exotic upgrades to all your weapons.
This could be one of the HQ features. Either a local or a highly expensive and specialized mechanic. Also, if you don't have a mechanic in the team to remove the X part from the looted gun, you could PAY to have the base gunsmith dismantle it. That's essential unless you want the players to curse the lack of info and their lack of mechanics.
- Bobby Ray
I'd remove BR entirely from the game and replace him with random shipments (airdrops) from your employer. And don't have a fixed location, you actually get a note saying "We'll airdrop supplies in sector N9. ETA 24h. Be there". And it's up to you to get there in time, recover the stash and haul it back to HQ. Leave them there too long, enemy gets there before you and you've just equipped them with a cool new weapons. The irony, eh?
[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 22:57] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318540]
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Fri, 03 May 2013 00:42
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R@S |
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Messages:134
Registered:July 2004 Location: Sweden |
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EXos
I liked the JA skill system. It was a clear reward for what that Merc does. If it heals people it gets points in medical, the guy who fixes the gear gets mechanical... I also love that system, and was actually very reluctant to adding something like an active system to BSM. But I was convinced by some good arguments about the RPG element, and went ahead and wrote the code. I made sure it was optional and you could turn it off in the INI, in the spirit of 1.13
It didn't take long until I got hooked on it tho, it's one of the more addictive functions I've ever encountered. I constantly keep track of the merc's kill count, so I can see my character get better in some stats that aren't very easy to train. Before that I used to spend a lot of time in the game, running back and forth on the map to increase my strength and agility. Throwing grenades to increase dexterity and Throwing skills. Now I don't do that anymore, and playing the game is actually much more fun when you focus on actually playing.
Having a teacher/student system is the JA2 way, so I wouldn't be disappointed if FC stayed true to that in this case. But man, getting addicted to stuff is fun too...
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Sergeant
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318541]
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Fri, 03 May 2013 00:50
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grim |
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Messages:344
Registered:July 2006 Location: France |
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JA skill system (attributes, skills, perks and Health/stamina/morale) is one of the best i've played. I love the passive skill progression. You have to forge to become a blacksmith, they somehow say in my country. A class system with unlocks or "xp to spent where ou want" sickens me.
"If it works, don't fix it" FC said, and in my opinion, it's the case here.
Maybe it can be tweaked a bit. Some skills and perks can be added, redone or interchanged eventually, but no more in my taste.
I.E. Marksmanship could be split in several skills like handguns, rifles, MGs... or this could be processed via perks like STOMP did. Melee, hand to hand, stealthy, etcetera, could be transformed into skills. Covert/spy could be a new perk like Flugente did, and other perks could come by.
But the core mechanic works so good and so realistic/coherent that it would be insane to change it.
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Master Sergeant
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318564]
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Fri, 03 May 2013 11:48
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JP'TR |
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Messages:104
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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lockieGlad you all left it for me to bring up lighting ( again ! ) . Please give us lighting that can be turned on , off , destroyed and otherwise used properly . At least let it be moddable so traps can be set and sprung at night . Can the unity engine do this ?
I have to say, a very nice idea!
But important for this point, that has to be done right.
A lot of games support these, but totaly wrong.
Newest example, the Trailers of Metro: Last Night, where a lot of guards patroling in a Room with lamps everywhere and the Player just goes arround, killing one light after the other, without enemys noticing the upcoming darkness...
So, if a Guard see a light in his view going off, he should run to the alarm switch OR alternatively "for dumb guards" , move up to check whats going on with his flashlight.
But realy, I want that feature!!! (We need that for 1.13 as well)^^
[Updated on: Fri, 03 May 2013 11:50] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318567]
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Fri, 03 May 2013 13:50
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R@S |
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Messages:134
Registered:July 2004 Location: Sweden |
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lockieGlad you all left it for me to bring up lighting ( again ! ) . Please give us lighting that can be turned on , off , destroyed and otherwise used properly . At least let it be moddable so traps can be set and sprung at night . Can the unity engine do this ? The Unity engine supports both static and dynamic lighting, and it's good you brought up this very important addition. This is set when you build the sector, tying the light to an object and then tying that to a dynamic light source(which should then be turned on/off by player action) should be part of the game.
And my final note on the active/passive skill system, I should make it clear that I'm talking about an XP points idea as an addition to a passive "learn by doing" system, like the teacher/student system was in JA2. I do not want a purely XP point based system, that's not the Jagged Alliance way.
EDIT: I feel like a "Hamster Punching a Cow"
[Updated on: Fri, 03 May 2013 13:59] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318569]
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Fri, 03 May 2013 15:16
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EXile 150 Abyss |
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Messages:137
Registered:September 2009 |
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LytinwheedleEverytime Ira put a critical round from a roof in Drassen into the head of an enemy threatening my wounded IMP made me cheer. The +1 Marksmanship message was the icing on the cake, showing me the game understands me.
Yes! It's just such a good feeling. ^^
R@S
And my final note on the active/passive skill system, I should make it clear that I'm talking about an XP points idea as an addition to a passive "learn by doing" system, like the teacher/student system was in JA2. I do not want a purely XP point based system, that's not the Jagged Alliance way.
EDIT: I feel like a "Hamster Punching a Cow"
[Updated on: Fri, 03 May 2013 15:17] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318592]
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Fri, 03 May 2013 19:43
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sardonic_wrath |
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Messages:48
Registered:June 2011 |
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My main concern with that new update is that the attachment screen looks quite its a major hassle to mod. Weapons will be the first thing people mod and will remain the most modded part of the game.
You already have to make a 3d model, texture, plus an inventury icon... you really shouldn't have to design the attachment sketch as well.
I realize this is a merely a concept art and maybe I misinterpreted it... my point is just think about modders when you do this part
The 7.62 approach is definitley something you should consider. Looks great as well, the inventory pics don't even look generated... I didn't even know until I read it here.
And I really hope there are more internal weapon stats than shown here... though I think they should stay hidden in order not to overwhelm... and also to make it fun to discover that your new smg gives much preciser bursts, but your new assault rifle is prone to jam.
There could always be a mod or an option to show all the values. Or maybe you could get the info ingame somehow... a gun expert npc could give you a detailed comparison between two weapons for a buck.
I didn't get whats with that "level" thing. But still I can already say I don't like it at all.
Whatever the concept behind it is (might even be something fun/realistic), don't just slap "level" on top of it. It sounds like the weapon magically does more damage and can get attachments, because the weapon killed people and got "xp". Please tell me that is not the idea...
I recall Flugente had a good idea in some thread... about making the calibre deceide the base range and damage, and the guns have modifiers. Nothing changes for gameplay or interface, just a more logical way to handle it interally. You should consider this.
Also, I really really hope you do a proper magazine system... i.e. don't equalize magazines & ammunition, don't make magazines appear out of thin air.
The avaibility of magazines for a specific wepaon really adds to the gameplay, and it opens a lot of possibilities with special mags (and their drawbacks, a heavy drum mag could reduce autofire accuracy since the balance of the gun is messed up)
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Corporal
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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318596]
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Fri, 03 May 2013 20:12
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Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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I think their update turned out rather well. From how I interpret the stuff, they'll pretty much stick to 1.13. Not sure what they mean with 'levels' - I'll very loosely interpret this to be the 'tech' level one gets from 'research' in the base - the better your gunsmith, the better you can add hard attachments, like rails/barrels etc. Other attachments will be changeable in the field. So its the 1.13 situation, where everything could be attached quickly, apart from adding few toys that are better left to the technicians (barrel extender etc.)
@sardonic_wrath: It's propably just a quick mock-up, I wouldn't worry about the exact looks yet.
Ammo seems to go the way 1.13 is going. Like that too.
@sardonic_wrath: The caliber idea/idea of 'real' magazines is relatively hard to implement in a working system that wasn't built for it (like 1.13, where adding it would be nightmarish). If they are smart in this regard, they could prepare their code to be easily adaptable to this later. Dunno if they will, but it would be a sure way to appease the gunzerkers^^
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