Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » How to move the starting sector? (SOLVED)
| How to move the starting sector?[message #366067]
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Sun, 05 May 2024 06:36 
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 Marcus |
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Messages:123
Registered:November 2014 |
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Due to the shape of my strategic map I must move Omerta one sector to the west. I know how to move the rebel hideout but not the starting sector... If It cannot be done I'll simply add a strip of land to keep Omerta in the vanilla sectors. Please let me know.
[Updated on: Wed, 29 May 2024 16:00] Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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| Re: How to move the starting sector?[message #366068 is a reply to message #366067]
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Sun, 05 May 2024 07:12 
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| Kitty |
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Messages:505
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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Marcus wrote on Sun, 05 May 2024 06:36Due to the shape of my strategic map I must move Omerta one sector to the west. I know how to move the rebel hideout but not the starting sector... If It cannot be done I'll simply add a strip of land to keep Omerta in the vanilla sectors. Please let me know.
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In ja2options.ini:
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;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; You can change the arrival sector of your first mercs. The defaults are X=9, Y=1 (for sector Omerta A9).
; Subsequent arrivals will occur as normal (whereever you set the arrival LZ on the map).
;
; Please note: If you set the arrival sector in enemy SAM-Site controlled area, it will automatically be moved to a safe
; airspace sector immediately after your initial arrival!!
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEFAULT_ARRIVAL_SECTOR_X = 9
DEFAULT_ARRIVAL_SECTOR_Y = 1
and in Mod_Settings.ini, you need to adjust
INITIAL_MERC_ARRIVAL_LOCATION = 4870
and probably you want to adjust these as well
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OMERTA_DROPOFF_X = 9
OMERTA_DROPOFF_Y = 1
OMERTA_DROPOFF_Z = 0
OMERTA_DROPOFF_GRIDNO = 4868
keep the name (i.e., OMERTA_DROPOFF_X ) as is, just change the values for X/Y and GridNo's
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plus:
take a close look at all other things in Mod_Settings.ini,
as I understand, you want to change all maps, so all of those need to be adjusted to your set of maps as well
and:
since you'll end up with different GridNo's than standard, you probably also want to look into various .lua-files (in "Scripts") (adjust GridNo's in those to the ones on your maps)
and also check xml if they deal with GridNo's as well (i.e., ShippingDestinations, InteractiveActions, etc, pp)
[Updated on: Sun, 05 May 2024 07:15]
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| Re: How to move the starting sector?[message #366112 is a reply to message #366111]
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Mon, 27 May 2024 04:29
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| Kitty |
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Messages:505
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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Why would it be outside the borders?
Open the map in mapeditor and hover mouse over tile you want them to enter. Take a look at the the GridNo it displays (bottom left in editor) and enter that GridNo in the files (at INITIAL_MERC_ARRIVAL_LOCATION)
To be sure nothing else is interfering, the map itself should be set up with all needed stuff, like the required enemy placements, required map entry points (N,S,E,W and C - where C should realy be roughly at center of map) and so on.
Any map change will only be applied if we have never been there before (i.e., if mercs have already revealed D14 any change to map D14 won't be applied afterwords. If we change D14 before mercs have revealed it, changes will be applied)
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2024 04:38]
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| Re: How to move the starting sector?[message #366113 is a reply to message #366112]
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Mon, 27 May 2024 08:33
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| Marcus |
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Messages:123
Registered:November 2014 |
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Hello there.
I tested the map in game and double checked, all required data are there. There is an "I" entry for a validation point, I set it roughly in the center of the map. Is that correct?
The map itself isn't an edited original, it's an empty map I made and enlarged to 200x200 immediately.
I both tried [Omerta] and [Molcope]
[Omerta]
; initial arrival tile number in Molcope
INITIAL_MERC_ARRIVAL_LOCATION = 24443
<a href="https://ibb.co/ByJjJ5L"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/ByJjJ5L/Senzanome.png" alt="Senzanome" border="0"></a>
PS:
The pic was meant to show that the grid is beyond the map border, I cut it too much. but it IS beyond. I find it odd but whatever..
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2024 08:36] Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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| Re: How to move the starting sector?[message #366114 is a reply to message #366113]
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Mon, 27 May 2024 20:25
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| Kitty |
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Messages:505
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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A little extract from "JA2_113_Map_Editor.pdf" (which can be found in folder "Docs/Manuals" of 1.13-instal)
ENTRY/EXIT POINTS.
In order for MERCS to travel between sectors, there MUST be entry/exit points
positioned along the edges.
The N, S, E and W buttons allow you to do this.
With N button selected, find a location along the northern edge of your map that has
enough room for your squad to arrive in and click on it. The N point has been marked.
Do this for the remaining S, E and W points so that all 4 edges of your map are notated
correctly. The game will use this tile as the starting point for calculating which tiles are
valid for MERCS to arrive in when entering a map.
Now use the C button to place a marker roughly central to your map. This must be a
relatively clear space. Use the ‘I’ key to zoom out for a better idea of location.
The game uses these points when making various decisions and calculations, and it is
VERY IMPORTANT THAT THEY BE PRESENT.
ISOLATED ENTRY POINT.
Although rare, depending upon what you do with your maps, you may need an isolated
entry point.
If you enclose an area of your map (eg. fence in the perimeter), so that it can only be
entered from a certain adjoining area of a map, you would need to mark the interior with
an isolated entry point in order for the game to calculate valid entry points.
Examples of this at standard 1.13 maps can be found in Grumm and Alma
In both cities there are fenced-of areas, restricting possible arrive locations
i.e., in Alma Mine/Civilian sector, the left side has a row of trees and a fence behind them
if you find one of the few spots where trees allow to get close to fence and cut that fence open, you can arrive inside the fence of neighbouring sectors army base
if not (fence not opened, which means you can't reach that map border in tactical), you have to approach through front entry (or approach from another direction)
that's done with that "I"
That said, unless you like to create such a scenario, you won't need to place an I-entry-point at map
The other entry points are mandatory, all four directions should always be there to avoid trouble
and the "C" (Center) is important for internal calculations and should be always placed (and be placed at roughly the Center of map)
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In your picture, the place where mouse is hovering (red square) is GridNo 4866 (as seen in bottom left of editor display)
So, I don't understand why you use 24443 instead. Where's that coming from?
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Enlarging the map above the standdard size (160/160) will most likely result in issues with GridNo's
That's basically creating Bigmaps like used in Aimnas (an unfinished mod) and sadly most knowledge arround creating working bigmpas is lost in history
If you enlarge the map, you enlarge the Grid. Resulting in Grid-No's bigger than standard
And those are used in multiple places (lua-scripts, npc-scripts, code itself and maybe some other files as well)
Anything in npc-script and lua is external and in theory can be adjusted
But while that probably works with lua, for npc-scripts (the .npc files) we need an editor to edit them (an npc-editor) and I don't know any that can deal with those higher numbers
(there might is some, I just don't know which, so can't point to any)
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And, if you enlarge the map (save it as enlarged in mapeditor), you would at least have to take the GridNo from that edited map, not the GridNo from before you enlarge it
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Until you have any special reason to do so, I would advise to stick to standard sized maps - or brace yourself for an additional layer of work (and in mostly uncharted terrain since documentation on how-to create bigmaps is real rare)
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2024 20:31]
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| Re: How to move the starting sector?[message #366115 is a reply to message #366114]
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Mon, 27 May 2024 21:06
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| Marcus |
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Messages:123
Registered:November 2014 |
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I was simply trying to point out that mercs were spawned outside of the map..
I did some testing and I can confirm your point of view about larger maps: The problem only happens with 200x200 maps. Custom and vanilla maps work flawlessly. I have ready maps for Omerta, IF I can get Fatima quest to work I'll go on with 200x200.
Getting ridd of the isolated entry point did nothing. Other than that I'll shift the starting map to a custom 160x160.
Wait: Is there no way to open the NPC scripts?
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2024 21:25] Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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| Re: How to move the starting sector?[message #366116 is a reply to message #366115]
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Mon, 27 May 2024 22:12
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| Kitty |
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Messages:505
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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You can open .npc-files with NPC-Editors (there are a bunch at forum download section, check the link named something like "Kermi's FTP")
But those are old, some are about 20 years old from early 2000's and therefore can be a bit prickly
It's been ages since I tried to use them with bigmaps (tried some things for Aimnas bigmaps), but I do recall issues with values too high for them
like, if the value of the number is too high the Editor struggled
But you can give it try and maybe you numbers match, dunno
If you want to make Fatima work, that's the first you'd need them. Fatima's script is rather big, it spans over multiple records (inside the .npc)
i.e., as you may have noticed, she stops multiple times on her way to Rebel Hideout and waits for player to be close enough to move further
Those stops happen at GridNo's defined in those records (a .npc-file consists of several records)
I'm not sure what happens when you use a mix of map sizes, you may have to stick to one (like, either all are 160/160 or all are 200/200)
Give it try if you like, I don't know an example where that was done, but maybe it's working (still kinda doubt it)
If you use 200x200, be ready for extra work and adjustments all over the place.
I know not a single mod that managed to make all quests working on bigmaps (but well, the most prominent BigMaps-mods, Aimnas and Horn-Of-Africa, never got finished), but there's always a first, so why not
The Isolation point won't work without an fully enclosed area, so unless you do that, no point in using them
Point was just to not mistake them for "C" (which is always needed and important, unlike "I" which is only needed in some rare scenarios)
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2024 22:14]
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| Re: How to move the starting sector?[message #366118 is a reply to message #366117]
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Tue, 28 May 2024 01:00
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| Kitty |
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Messages:505
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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Wether enemies will show up is controlled by garrison and patrol xmls
for garrison, wether there is one at all and if, how much desire to refill is there
for patrols, wether they come along or not (is sector on their route of waypoints?)
and, iirc, patrols can also step out of their way and enter sectors along their way if they detect mercs
in standard 1.13, parts of SanMona are examples, there are sectors in SM they hardly ever will show
like, they might show at sectors close to roads patrols are moving (very, very rare - think that happened to me once in 20 years of playing)
but in sector with Kingpin I never had any enemies
another example in standard 1.13 is A10, the sector with Rebel Hideout
iirc, it has no garrison defined in xml and so the only way they ever would show is when a passing patrol detects mercs and decides to show up (I don't recall that ever happened to me)
so basically it's about how you set up those xml and how the sector can be reached in general (movementcost.xml)
a patrol can detect mercs, but won't be able to go there of it can't be reached at foot -
expect ASD, those folks can use enemy Helicopter (if that is set in ja2options.ini, but should be taken into account if you want to publish the mod, you'll never know which settings players choose, and imo a mod should work with all possible combinations)
Anyway, take a look at SanMona and RebelHideout (maybe Estoni is another candidate as well) to see how that was achieved
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And there's a bunch of other npc that will use GridNo for movements
Brenda - she's moving out the shop and makes her way to her house, with two short stops inbetween before reaching GridNo at her house
Hans - he'll step aside when conditions are met, that's also a move-to-GridNo
Billy - same, he'll step aside to let us in Brothel
Spike - steps aside at boxing club entrance and moves arround during intial scene of boxing
Kingpin - walks from his house to boxing club (better place no obstacles in his way to not risk an endless clock beacuse he's stuck)
Walter - if bribed, moves to open door to Orta underground
Ernest - if conditions met, walks a long way (several short stops) from his lab to open door with Orta loot
Paco - he's moving alongside Fatima and also travels to next sector
Eldin - his patrol path in museum
Queen and Eliot and Joe - during meanwhile scenes enter room
Joe - scene in POW camp where he'll punch captive merc and scene in palace where he might can be bribed when we enter palace through secret passage
Queen - her movements in POW camp
Merchants - where are they placed? do they may have a schedule they follow? (some just show at certain times, others walk out of their shop at closing time and move to their bed, etc)
Civilians - some also do have schedules (i.e. move to bed-GridNo at time xy) or waypoints (stroll arround a defined path)
Carmen - where he'll be in the various sectors he can be
Hamous and Truck - same
Father - same
Tourists - where are they? what's considered close enough to trigger end quest
Extra civilians and Extra Merchants - where are they placed
Bountyhunters - the follow-up quest for Maria, where are those folks
Switches - GridNo of doors and action items they trigger
Intel - SAM-terminals, bookshelves, computers, servers, etc - where are they?
Interactive Stuff - same as Intel, where are they? (InteractiveActions.xml and some .lua) billiard tables, toilets, water taps, sinks, pinball, soda machine, etc
and so on, there's probably stuff/people missing (just what came to mind)
some is done in .npc, some in lua and some in xml
given, when you want don't want any quest to happen, some things probably ain't neeeded
but others might still need to be adjusted
[Updated on: Tue, 28 May 2024 01:06]
How to get: latest 1.13, 7609 and more | 7609 SCI (eng) | Compiling+SVN
I need more details. (Didi Hallervorden) Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to move the starting sector?[message #366119 is a reply to message #366118]
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Tue, 28 May 2024 01:09
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| Marcus |
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Messages:123
Registered:November 2014 |
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Ok, I was asking becouse I could make the player start into a 200x200 without enemies, in that case mercs can travel via the strategic map as usual. If NPC movement can't be handled I'll have to consider 160x160 maps though. I'm not really sure I want to erase all quest and turn the game into a complete turn based RTS..
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Sergeant
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