Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » JA2 Complete Mods & Sequels » JA2UC Feedback & General Discussions » Mod Question
Mod Question[message #94089] Mon, 14 March 2005 01:41 Go to next message
DaCheetah is currently offline DaCheetah

 
Messages:74
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...
Is there a mod that makes enemies drop their full kits? I've always wanted to find a mod that would make Jagged Alliance more realistic. Also, it always annoys the crap out of me when you know the enemy your shooting at has a great gun, but you kill him... and guess what? He didn't drop it. So, does anyone know of one that will work with UC, or with JA at all?

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Mod Question[message #94090] Mon, 14 March 2005 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
what about steeling that gun from him?

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Mod Question[message #94091] Mon, 14 March 2005 04:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaCheetah is currently offline DaCheetah

 
Messages:74
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...
stealing guns is great fun, but its a real big pain, especially in open areas. Why should i have to steal a gun from a guy when if i kill him, he should drop it anyways. Stealings alot easier when you steal from the dead.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Mod Question[message #94092] Sat, 19 March 2005 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mravac Kid is currently offline Mravac Kid

 
Messages:68
Registered:May 2004
Location: Opatija, Croatia
Yeah, I also find it unrealistic that the enemies don't drop weapons.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Mod Question[message #94093] Sat, 19 March 2005 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
alice_spacelab is currently offline alice_spacelab

 
Messages:93
Registered:March 2004
Location: Scotland, UK
For me it's not a question of realism but game balance. If every enemy dropped every weapon then either you'd end up with an uber squad much too fast, or the enemies in the sectors you're likely to go to early would all have to have rubbish weapons. Otherwise it would just be too easy.

Treat stealing as a challenge. IMHO, bing able to steal a couple Dragunovs -- with a great deal of difficulty and planning! -- makes the Tony Port Kip sector one of the best.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal 1st Class
Re: Mod Question[message #94094] Sat, 19 March 2005 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
That's right.
I sort of wish someone would make an enemies drop everything mini mod to settle this point for good. But if you think about it, you'd have to make some element of the game a lot harder to restore balance.

I just try to imagine there are extenuating circumstances that keep me from looting all the enemies. I know that's not exactly realistic either but I think the main thing is to have an enjoyable game. If everyone dropped thier weapon you wouldn't get the same feeling of accomplishment you get finding the scarce goodies.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Mod Question[message #94095] Fri, 25 March 2005 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaCheetah is currently offline DaCheetah

 
Messages:74
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...
I understand there could be a game balance problem, but seeing as how I've just taken Gallileo and the enemies are still packing mostly 9mm, but there are a few Aks and aksu's, where as my squad is equipped with great equipment. I would see it as suicidal to go on a mission in a foreign country with only pistols and the like, or nothing at all, especially when facing the ridiculous numeric odds like in UC.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Mod Question[message #94096] Fri, 25 March 2005 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headshot is currently offline Headshot

 
Messages:176
Registered:May 2002
Location: Los Angeles ( Hollywood )...

DaCheetah

You can look at it the same way from the enemy point of view. Why shouldnt they be equiped right from the start with the best armor and weapons. At that point you would still be out gunned and out numbered.

Or think of tring to fly into the USA, England, or any number of other countries while carring weapons. I am sorry but you most likely would never make it onto the airplane. So entering a foriegn country without weapons, and aquiring them within that country is the most practical way of getting in un-noticed. Just think of yourself as having to get to your meeting point where your contact would supply you with the weapons he had available. If you took the contract you would do the best you could with what was available, or you may never get another contract.

Almost everyone on these forums have dealt with the same thing you are going through and I have not found anyone yet, that couldnt complete thier mission with what they started with.

Read my Ironman game if you have a problem getting started. I started with ONLY my IMP, using LOCALs ONLY, NO saves during combat, and no reloads, Expert, tons of guns, Reality, settings.

The game would be way too easy if you didnt have proper game balance, and started with fully equipped mercs, coupled with enemies dropping everything they carried.

Just my opinion...

Headshot

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Mod Question[message #94097] Sun, 27 March 2005 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaCheetah is currently offline DaCheetah

 
Messages:74
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...
Headshot

I've followed your ironman game, its really entertaining, I'm not having any problem with getting equipment. I was just curious to whether or not this was even possible, and because some of those rarer weapons can be good to have laying around.

[edit]
And you can't look at it from the enemies standpoint, you are invading a third world country that has to factor in the cost of equipment for each individual soldier. It's much more practical and cheaper to enter a country as a team of well equipped, well trained soldier than defend a country with ten thousand well equipped, poorly trained soldiers.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Mod Question[message #94098] Sun, 27 March 2005 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
As a mercenary, you would most likely be able to find a way around customs, or would be issued with equipment in the country you work. But you would certainly never go into a civil war contry with a 9mm, 2 clips and quarter of a liter of water!

the opposite Idea is also present. an elite mod, where only decent weaponry is used, pistols and stuff maybe sidearms. But i don`t think anybody would ever make such a mod, as there are so many fans of low-tech tactics such as hand-to hand combat.

maybe for UB, and Mission-based... haven`t had enough time to think it through but the concept is around...

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Mod Question[message #94099] Sun, 27 March 2005 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaethWalker is currently offline DaethWalker

 
Messages:98
Registered:September 2003
Location: Rocky Point, NC
Think of it this way ... you just emptied a full clip into a guy ... maybe you destroyed or at least disabled his weapon and armor. Who's going to use a Dragunov with a bent barrel or destroyed stock?

Or, you took a guy out with one shot from the rooftop ... problem is, when he dropped his weapon ... it fell into a sewer drain.

Or, after you supposedly wiped everyone out ... the locals robbed the dead before you could.

Or, a couple of their buddies, that you never saw, grabbed the guns and made a quick retreat to fight another day.

Scenarios like these happen all the time in real-world battles.

Same with lack of supplies, when 1st starting out in a new country. Shipments are delayed, confiscated by local authorities, stolen, or even scammed by the guy who was supposed to supply the weapons. "Weapons? What weapons? I've got a truckload of bananas your employer ordered. Do you want them or not?"

It could be worse. In many real-world scenarios, trying to rob the dead gets you shot by the lone sniper noone saw or blown up by a booby-trapped body.

Or, instead of a body with only a canteen and a cple of ammo clips, you only find a blood-trail. Because, the enemy take their dead and wounded with them when they retreat. To prevent robbery and/or mutilation of their dead.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal 1st Class
Re: Mod Question[message #94100] Mon, 28 March 2005 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaCheetah is currently offline DaCheetah

 
Messages:74
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...
Right now all I'm seeing is excuses for the way the game is, and no healthy creative thinking. Basically all I'm seeing is that no one else wants to see a mod like the afore mentioned full equipment drop one.

@DaethWalker
I could only hope the enemy comes before I can loot their corpses, fewer to fight later, less walking to do. I'd love to see the guy I just snuck up on, shot in the head with a silenced M4, and killed boobytrap his body on the way down.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Mod Question[message #94101] Mon, 28 March 2005 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
A mod like the one you suggest is very easy to do. Ten minutes with the beta map editor and you'd be able to figure out how to do it. The real work then would be to manually assign every weapon for each enemy and check the 'drop' box.
If I had interest in doing this I would but; I'm sorry, unless I could figure out the balance problem I wouldn't even consider it and don't really think I'd be interested in doing that anyway.
But if you want to do this, just have a look at the beta editor and give it a shot. If you then have questions just post them here.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Mod Question[message #94102] Mon, 28 March 2005 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaCheetah is currently offline DaCheetah

 
Messages:74
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...
Alright, thanks Khor. I'll try to figure out a way to balance it, I'll keep you posted.

Where can I find the beta editor? This will be my first time modding, so, I'll probably make a lot of mistakes.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Mod Question[message #94103] Mon, 28 March 2005 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ramfall is currently offline ramfall

 
Messages:405
Registered:January 2001
Location: JAmodsquad, Helsingborg, ...
@Khor1255,
there is actually another thing also to keep in perspective... They built the engine so that only a small portion of the inventory is dropped. So when you get hold of their stuff it's usually only one weapon, some ammo and maybe some armour, if you're lucky... So you don't reflect over how much the items have been degraded (status lowered). But when you drop all the stuff it gets really apparent! Especially in the lower levels of enemies, and with enemies that have been automatically equipped with stuff. Most of the stuff they drop will be below 50%! So, there are some additional work to do in order to get this flawless...

But the way you suggest that won't be the issue, since you explicitly tells the gameengine which items are available - but on the other hand it is a huge workload to do it!!! Probably easier to use GABBI to get hold of the stuff you want...
:ramfall:

Report message to a moderator

Master Sergeant
Re: Mod Question[message #94104] Mon, 28 March 2005 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
@DaCheetah

The beta should still be available through Ja Galaxy or Lords of the Bytes. Links to these are at the top of the page.
Like I said this editor can be downright squirrly to install and I've always had problems with the Items tab on my installations. In fact the only beta that works correctly is the one that is included in the UC Utilities pack but since this one is specific to UC I need to transfer maps back and forth to put items in maps for regular Ja2.
Since you're posting in the UC section of this forum I'm assuming you want to change this for UC right? The editor you'll need is part of the UC Utilities Pack and I think there is still a link to this on the opening page of this forum. If not I have seen it at Ja Galaxy very recently.
If you have any problem getting it just mail me at Khor1966@yahoo.com and I'll try to send it. Big files like that are sometimes impossible to attach but I could try.

@Ramfall

Good to hear from you again sir. I've never messed with Gabbi cheats and am unaware of most of them. But I seem to remember hearing about this one and that may be a better solution indeed. I'm wondering when this cheat makes the enemies drop their weapons? Is it as they die or all at once at the end of the battle?
I didn't quite follow you're explaination about items degraded. I take it to mean thier condition is often below 50% repair? If this is incorrect please let me know.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Mod Question[message #94105] Mon, 28 March 2005 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ramfall is currently offline ramfall

 
Messages:405
Registered:January 2001
Location: JAmodsquad, Helsingborg, ...
Hi again,
no need to sir me, Dan. Yeah, you got it right! Characters that are using the random equipment (inventory generated by the gameengine, not the editor) tend to have really low condition/status since each piece of equipment status is based on the carriers experience level and general game progress. So, in the earlier levels you will pretty much only run into trashed stuff.

The GABBI cheats are my best friends:) This is for modding purposes! Without them it wouldn't be possible for me to test the eqipment as easily as I can now. Using for instance 'alt + W' I can make sure that each weapon have the correct ammunition available. And using this cheat I'm able to get hold of every single item in the game. It's just a question of a whole lot of alt+w pressing. To use this cheat you need to have right-click an item (the best use is to place an item in the secondhand itemslot and rightclick this one) and then press alt+w. This creates a new item in the firsthand position. By continuing to press alt+w, still in the detailed view of the item you will notice that it now turns into the next item in MyWeapons.txt. So to get hold of the item you need you just need to be patient and continuing alt+w:ing untill you reach the item you want. This includes every item in the game. Weapons, armour etc.

Alt+o only kills the enemies, and they drop their stuff based on their normal critieria, meaning that you won't get hold of more items that way.

Btw, how are your mod coming along? I read somewhere that you got a programmer onboard. That's good! And well needed! You know how to get hold of me if you need my help.
:ramfall:

Report message to a moderator

Master Sergeant
Re: Mod Question[message #94106] Tue, 29 March 2005 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
The mod is comming along great lately (thanx to a really enthusiastic programmer). I was seriously spinning wheels with the engine's (and especially the utilities) limitations but I'm hopeful we can now move foreward with both the weapons and the quests.
It's been slow going lately (I really don't know C and have been working on getting a compiler today), but the weapon changes are stable and he solved the clip sizes problem I was having.
This has gone terribly off topic but I'd like to conclude by saying I'll send you something when we have a finished prototype of the new .exe (I'm hoping before the summer).
Always great to hear from you and I meant sir in a most non Eddie Haskel type way.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Mod Question[message #94107] Tue, 29 March 2005 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ramfall is currently offline ramfall

 
Messages:405
Registered:January 2001
Location: JAmodsquad, Helsingborg, ...
Great! I'm really looking forward to this mod! And I wish you you guys all the luck! Keep us posted!
:ramfall:

Report message to a moderator

Master Sergeant
Re: Mod Question[message #94108] Mon, 04 April 2005 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sihker is currently offline sihker
Messages:2
Registered:April 2005
Location: Estonia
Well, why not a full drop mod? Smile I've played over a weekend original JA2, with 800x600 mod, which has drop everything option in preferences.
At least, I would say it is entertaining Very Happy I plan to play it w/o drop everything next time, and maybe some time even UC(found it too hard after first town Smile )

And sorry for OT Smile

Report message to a moderator

Civilian
Re: Mod Question[message #94109] Mon, 04 April 2005 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
abradley is currently offline abradley

 
Messages:225
Registered:December 2001
There was a 'drop everything' campaign for JA2UB, played it for a while but cleaning up sectors was time consuming.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant 1st Class
Re: Mod Question[message #94110] Tue, 05 April 2005 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaCheetah is currently offline DaCheetah

 
Messages:74
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...
I keep hearing about the 800x600 mod, anywhere I can get my hands on it?

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Mod Question[message #94111] Fri, 15 April 2005 23:08 Go to previous message
sihker is currently offline sihker
Messages:2
Registered:April 2005
Location: Estonia
Well, the original page (russian) has only russian mod, but search around in this forum ,there are direct links to mirrors.
-----
Like first post on -
JA2 Technical Department

Smile

Report message to a moderator

Civilian
Previous Topic: SA 80 LSW
Next Topic: problems downloading fixed maps
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sat Jan 25 02:45:34 GMT+2 2025

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02076 seconds